PC-Demos - What for??
category: general [glöplog]
and don't forget the free laptops, free hardware and the prizemonnay!11 winning a demoparty feels like using linux!
radiant-x : "First you resent using the term nostalgia, and then you go on about how much better things at general were some 15 years ago"
You missed the goddamn point. I was just meaning that Demoscene is not, repeat : NOT, "a lot" about nostalgia as you wrote before. It's about fun, about cutting-edge tech, about self-improvement and competition. And this spirit could be alive and kickin' with today's technology, but sadly it's not, because it has been buried deep under thick layers of easy-come-easy-go-mainstream-MTVish-global-customer-culture trash. But I have the feeling that I won't convince you because you've already made up your mind, so okay. The Demoscene is mostly about nostalgic thirty-smthg guys coding cellular automata on their mobile phones. See, Im' not such a jackass, uh ? :)
Okkie : "You do realize that if MySpace and Second Life were around 2 decades ago, there wouldn't have been a demoscene right?"
Actually, there were some avatars of today's social multiplayer games back in the days, and still the Demoscene managed to grow. I think you're confusing consequences with causes on that one, Okkie. Anyway, have a good nostalgic party dudes ! :)
You missed the goddamn point. I was just meaning that Demoscene is not, repeat : NOT, "a lot" about nostalgia as you wrote before. It's about fun, about cutting-edge tech, about self-improvement and competition. And this spirit could be alive and kickin' with today's technology, but sadly it's not, because it has been buried deep under thick layers of easy-come-easy-go-mainstream-MTVish-global-customer-culture trash. But I have the feeling that I won't convince you because you've already made up your mind, so okay. The Demoscene is mostly about nostalgic thirty-smthg guys coding cellular automata on their mobile phones. See, Im' not such a jackass, uh ? :)
Okkie : "You do realize that if MySpace and Second Life were around 2 decades ago, there wouldn't have been a demoscene right?"
Actually, there were some avatars of today's social multiplayer games back in the days, and still the Demoscene managed to grow. I think you're confusing consequences with causes on that one, Okkie. Anyway, have a good nostalgic party dudes ! :)
tomsawyer: comparing a MUD to Second Life? :)
Though not everybody would accept it as that, I'd simply say: It is art and competition. Art always stands for itself and needs no justification, whether people might like what they see or not. And competition was always there...
Demo art silently changed from handcraft (knowing the hardware, hardcore optimization, implementing algorithms, ...) to a more holistic, style-oriented form of expression (beauty/esthetics, coherence, a message, ...). Though those elements were always there, they became and still are becoming more important.
It is similar to style changes in painting over time...
This is ARTAAAAAA ;)
Demo art silently changed from handcraft (knowing the hardware, hardcore optimization, implementing algorithms, ...) to a more holistic, style-oriented form of expression (beauty/esthetics, coherence, a message, ...). Though those elements were always there, they became and still are becoming more important.
It is similar to style changes in painting over time...
This is ARTAAAAAA ;)
okkie : No,no. MUDs were not what I had in mind (although I suppose some of them were pretty close to this). I was rather thinking to BBS forums, or Minitel in France (it was quite popular, people had chats for hours online, mostly about sex... does it recall you anything ?) for examples, and that Japanexe game with avatars, virtual houses, virtuals goods, and so on back in the 80ies (was it on the Commodore 64 ?).
rarefluid : No, THIS IS NOSTALGIAAAAAAA ! :)
"Japanexe" sounds good, doesn't it ? :)
TomS4wy3r: I guess you missed the point as well. I didn't claim the scene at large was about nostalgia at all, I just claimed a large part of today's PC demo making is. The point in making traditional demos for the PC has long since been diluted as it has no real limitations left - the technological "wow" factor is gone (just see the first post in the thread for an example).
Nobody would do PC demos today if it weren't for the fact that people did demos 20 years ago. 95% of all active sceners today had their first contact with the scene in the 80's or first half of the 90's. The scene is shrinking; the average age increasing. It's a club for those who experienced the old days, either first or second handedly. I am considered young in today's scene, whereas I'd have been an oldie if it was 1987. We're a dying breed. We keep going because the scene is what we know, but it has little appeal to the general computer populace these days, unlike in the 80's.
Nobody would do PC demos today if it weren't for the fact that people did demos 20 years ago. 95% of all active sceners today had their first contact with the scene in the 80's or first half of the 90's. The scene is shrinking; the average age increasing. It's a club for those who experienced the old days, either first or second handedly. I am considered young in today's scene, whereas I'd have been an oldie if it was 1987. We're a dying breed. We keep going because the scene is what we know, but it has little appeal to the general computer populace these days, unlike in the 80's.
radiantx : "We're a dying breed."
Regarding that subject, my friend, I completely agree. :)
Regarding that subject, my friend, I completely agree. :)
reasons
1) show off skills
2) just coz you can... and why not?
1) show off skills
2) just coz you can... and why not?
radiantx: "We're a dying breed." (etc.)
Well, your observations apply to any culture. Of course the scene will die, just as everything else (or at least fade away). But not yet! :)
Well, your observations apply to any culture. Of course the scene will die, just as everything else (or at least fade away). But not yet! :)
The thing is people are scared of sucking, but they don't realize no one cares. If if sucks just add a cool bassline a fucking speaker blower bass kick and people will say: This sucks but it has BASS! And you can add some David Hasselhoff pictures to the mix and you're done.
simply because demos are the most complete form of human-sized art (human-sized because movies and now video games have become huge industries), think about all the different talents you need to make a good demo :)
and maybe because they are the purest form of art as it's mostly the most free and desinteressed, look how people are into other arts to get chicks, fame and money ;)
except some limited booze/smoke excesses, demo art philosophy is ascetism ;D
and maybe because they are the purest form of art as it's mostly the most free and desinteressed, look how people are into other arts to get chicks, fame and money ;)
except some limited booze/smoke excesses, demo art philosophy is ascetism ;D
> look how people are into other arts to get chicks, fame and money
FARBRAUSCH!!!111111hundreneleven1!
FARBRAUSCH!!!111111hundreneleven1!
The only thing I have against newschool PC demos (or any computer demo) is a hellspawn of hardware rendering: it's fucking close to impossible to cause a universal orgasm because no two fucking chip-card configurations ever produce the same graphics.
I'll grab Lifeforce as an example... they look good on the videos, but at home, they look like shit--the textures look like they've been torn in a violent rape and the heart is missing it's muscles!! (Btw, my configuration is not shit... it's an X1300... alright... it's shit... I admit ;_;)
The point: This frustration of not being able to appreciate (intimately) the arts the way it's meant to be appreciated probably drives most of the hatred towards PC demomaking itself.
And, no, joining the Xtreme Kidzzzz and retooling my box inside out until it needs an artificial respirator to even work for 1 hour won't let me run year-old demos any better. Those prods are crying for their mothers.... they want to go back to the wombs--the original computers they were made on where they could show their true glory.
No demo made on a Radeon 9XXX would look any better on a GF8.
And hell, I haven't even started on screen and color calibration....
In contrast, console and handheld demos (I meant DS/GBA/GP kind of thing, NOT mobile phones, PocketPCs and competitors) can almost never be corrupt by config differences (aside from screen and speaker).
Software rendering on PC also helps to a lesser extent, because graphics are rendered as equally as possible on as many computers as possible. Of course, there is the performance cockblock, and then some mockery from your enemies who have been reading too many NVIDIATI advertisements.
PC demos--they'd rather be fine arts.... running on cut up computers that look like dolls in caskets wired to exotic screen configurations (like a 8192x16384 ceiling). Frees you from the drama of horde after horde of trolls wanting to torch your ass over DirectX incompatibilites. And you are even free to be as 1337 as possible, writing all your graphics in assembly!!!!111hundredandelevenbillion whatever.
And agreeing with Zest, you can get laid and rich and drunk better that way (and when I mean drunk, I mean conneisor-ass over century-old wine, not some cheap piss mix beer). Too much geek image stigma over the demoscene, and I am ready to blame this on the technicalities...
Offtopic note: Mobile demos are dead. They were never alive anyway.
I'll grab Lifeforce as an example... they look good on the videos, but at home, they look like shit--the textures look like they've been torn in a violent rape and the heart is missing it's muscles!! (Btw, my configuration is not shit... it's an X1300... alright... it's shit... I admit ;_;)
The point: This frustration of not being able to appreciate (intimately) the arts the way it's meant to be appreciated probably drives most of the hatred towards PC demomaking itself.
And, no, joining the Xtreme Kidzzzz and retooling my box inside out until it needs an artificial respirator to even work for 1 hour won't let me run year-old demos any better. Those prods are crying for their mothers.... they want to go back to the wombs--the original computers they were made on where they could show their true glory.
No demo made on a Radeon 9XXX would look any better on a GF8.
And hell, I haven't even started on screen and color calibration....
In contrast, console and handheld demos (I meant DS/GBA/GP kind of thing, NOT mobile phones, PocketPCs and competitors) can almost never be corrupt by config differences (aside from screen and speaker).
Software rendering on PC also helps to a lesser extent, because graphics are rendered as equally as possible on as many computers as possible. Of course, there is the performance cockblock, and then some mockery from your enemies who have been reading too many NVIDIATI advertisements.
PC demos--they'd rather be fine arts.... running on cut up computers that look like dolls in caskets wired to exotic screen configurations (like a 8192x16384 ceiling). Frees you from the drama of horde after horde of trolls wanting to torch your ass over DirectX incompatibilites. And you are even free to be as 1337 as possible, writing all your graphics in assembly!!!!111hundredandelevenbillion whatever.
And agreeing with Zest, you can get laid and rich and drunk better that way (and when I mean drunk, I mean conneisor-ass over century-old wine, not some cheap piss mix beer). Too much geek image stigma over the demoscene, and I am ready to blame this on the technicalities...
Offtopic note: Mobile demos are dead. They were never alive anyway.
Is this the smell of clueless?
hey momovampire, why don't you just go hatin' on sum bitches sum mo'!
So...There's some demos on PC too ?!
momovampire: in need of a ticket for the cluebus? :)
