pouët.net

it wasn't keops
it was krueger :D

lmao anyway

I always felt really sorry for pixellers who work their butt off only to get told thay have no talent blah blah. But it's not just pixellers now, it's demo makers as a whole. Farbrausch and TBL got it in the neck for taking inspiration for their BP demos and this is just gonna go on and on until these hard working guys wake up and realise...

SCENERS ARE UNGRATEFUL BASTARDS WHO JUST LIKE TO CRITICIZE!

It doesn't pay to take the scene seriously.

Preacher: Ah, ok. Then maybe there's a photo we could look into =)

Well, he gotta get credit for having a nice girlfriend. Anyway, my suspicious mind was right again.

I find pixeling to be somewhat of a meditative endeavour. It's easy to get carried away and get lost in details. You better limit yourself to a few-bits palette, unless you're ready to sink months worth of time into a single picture. :)

Yeah, so it's copied whaaa whaaaa! Let's see anyone here paint something this beautful at 800x600.....let alone at less than 256 colours!

I like how the man who actually got 'timbalanded' is actually the one who has the sanest opinion in this thread.

We need that evolution ! In the 90's , scanner users was openly betting that no one will ever discover their sources, to gain popularity at low cost. At the time, demo watcher was poor users hidden at the other side of the disk-swapping chain, without internet the risk was poor.
I have to add that the goal of some gfxmen like ra or made, was to work on the "plot" rendering, the texture, the photographic "grain" of their 320x256 images... there was this interest.

- And - Gosh ! People ! Look:
... OMG WE ARE IN A REAL DEMOSCENE THREAD TALKING ABOUT A REAL CLASSIC DEMOSCENE SUBJECT ...

QUICK !! I DEMAND A TROLL !

It's time for me to write something ... i apologize for everything i've done ... i'm really lame ... i hope i've not ternished the ST scene too much .. i leave now

Hempest: it seems that a lot of coders liked that indeed but I think it was more specific to the Amiga scene - the weakest Atari ST palette was probably one of the reasons why.
Atari coders prefered to be given nice Amiga fonts ;)

Amiga scene revolved more around Boris Vallejo whereas the Atari scene revolved more around the Knight Hawks fonts :)

At the time, it was harder to find the real source of a rip, no internet etc, so the tolerance level was much higher.

For your remark, dunno if it was personal or not, I don't recall any of our prods ever using some "dragons'n'boobs paintings (naturally copies)" pics.
However, we borrowed ideas and fonts from amiga, mainly because we liked this machine and wanted to try the same effects on Atari without blitter/copper. But we tried as often as possible to redraw all the gfx ourselves as you can see on the screenshot posted previously (or the DOC demo conversion where all the gfx where redrawn as well)

Chaos probably didn't know about it but I remember visiting Ra/Sanity in summer 1993 (having a good time drawing stuff with spraycans on a wall near a railway): he proposed to give us the skeleton picture he made for Arte, asking us to release our Atari prod after Arte of course. We had his authorization and I think he was even ready to "customize" it a little bit ;) However, I told him it was a bad idea because even though we borrowed a lot of amiga stuff, we wanted to have as many original gfx as possible.





C-Rem: shit happens and everybody can make msitakes, that's what makes us go forward. Only people who don't do stuff never make mistakes.

I know you're a very talented gfx guy when you take the time to draw stuff yourself. Prove whiners wrong and kick some ass in your next Atari prod :)

copied or not, scanned or not, pixelled pictures do make the best wallpapers ever :D

isn't that rewarding for pixel artists !? uhuh

Talking about Danny/ex-TBL
check this out, quite a carreer he has made:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1114123

worked on amongst others x-men 3, the new Harry Potter movie
etc..

I bet Louie painted those wings and Danny handed in the meat. The sky looks like it's done by Jerry Jpeg.

ohhh.. danny has his own message board on IMDB. I cant wait for comments like "He looks fat..".. "I would hit it.. " etc..

I think copies and scans are ok as long as the gfx man does not act like he did all on his own.

I think the cheat (and thus the bad part of the whole thing) comes into play when someone denies his real techniques (e.g. using a reference) and play the role of the true inspired geniuos.

So i guess its not about the "art" or the way its created, but about the people who pretend to be more than they actually are.

Keops: nothing personal intended. I needed an example of an old school coder who doesn't appreciate copied pixelations and so you had the honour =)

And the points you made about your and your group's old productions
showed why some amiga coder would've been a better example.

Any idea what Ra is doing these days (from artistic point of view)?

Zweckform: I think that the general view was a bit different around 15 years ago. Most pictures were copies then, it was more of a default than exception. I don't think anybody really thought those pictures of naked ladies originated from live model sessions held in graphicians' private studios, or that their plain imagination could've produced countless pairs of perfect tits.

And then there's the famous album covers, the typical fantasy art (there are certain Vallevjo pics that have been redone by several different demosceners), pictures of cars, planes...

I'm not saying anything about the artistic level of these pictures, but I'm simply pointing out that doing copies wasn't that big of deal then and most of the graphics produced in demoscene had clearly some sort of reference material behind them.

So nobody had to pretend anything. Nowadays things are bit different =)

Maybe this whole no copy movement originates from a period when prizemoneys at parties were getting higher and some more original artists began nagging about money going to wrong persons. Charts might be another important factor; doing copies got you in higher position and graphicians focusing on original artwork couldn't compete with guys doing Vallevjo-copies. It all seems very natural to me: teens and over-aged teens wanted tits and dragons, but demoscene couldn't produce even one single Vallevjo or Frazetta.

Hempest: ahah ok. We borrowed 2 amiga mods also in 1991, I forgot to mention it :)

About Ra, I tried to get back in touch with him for years now but without success unfortunately. Neither Chaos nor Moby had any contact address anymore.
Last time I heard from him he was doing GBA graphics for a game.

Keops: what is Ra's real name?

Olivier, why?

Olivier ....... ?

Don't remember, last time I received a mail from him was in 2001 or 2002. Why do you want to know anyway?

keops: I should not write that in a public thread, but... well: what is more or less ->* rumored *<- about ra since 95/96 is the following: he did some "drug abuse" that year, and had some "psychic troubles" thereafter... Actually, I've met karl/nooon last year (also in toulouse), and the reason why he (karl) took away from scene was "what happened to olivier" and the behaviour of some people, what I can understand. (well, the french scene from 95 had really some very scary specimens, in term of "grandiloquence" and drug abuse...)
I actually hope ra is well and rumors * not that true *, but I guess he has good reasons to leave the scene. Note, I don't have any information about where he is now/what he does.

Olivier Bechard


*google*

?

Krabob: dunno, last time we exchanged mails he seemed to be fine. Maybe he seemed to have lost a bit of his great arrogance, which is one of the things I liked about him, aside from his gfx skills :)