Bulletin.
category: general [glöplog]
maali: that level was implemented by analogue, not me. and it never shadow-banned for anything in the site afaicr.
Hey Gargaj, thank you for everything. You are awesome and deserve a break from the craziness. Wish you all the best!
Thank you Gargaj! You helped me out multiple times. If there is something I can help you with let me know. I'd throw pouet under the bus if it means you having a better and less stressful life.
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Oh it's simple: At this point I fucking hate you all. The scene (not just Pouet) has been nothing but a constant source of stress, disappointment and misery over the last couple of years, and especially the last couple of months - all of it is not only documented here on the BBS, but also produced by you all, with no regard to any of the others. I cannot remember when I last managed to extract any sort of joy out of any sort of demo-related activity, I'm burned out to a crisp, and this thread so far has been contributing to it by reinforcing that while everyone acknowledges the job is thankless, noone is willing to admit why that is or show any degree of introspection towards a healthy community. This is unsustainable, everyone knows it's unsustainable, and yet everyone insists on having the same stupid fucking fights and tolerating the same stupid fucking behaviour, and at some point it's easier to admit that THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT EVERYONE WANTS and just step aside from the way of the bus heading down the ravine.
I feel you,
That's exactly why I only take glimpses of Pouet once a year, when needed. It's a chamber of echoes that ends in cacophony, I believe it's the reflection of all and no one in particular.
If you are in such a bad place, it's more than time to take a breather and be absolutely proud of what you contributed to the demoscene community, for that, I thank you so much.
I wish you the very best Gargaj <3
Why do I have impression that to some people it's like taking away their favorite shitposting playground away. Let the man retire.
Either way, thank you Gargaj for maintaining it for so long!
Either way, thank you Gargaj for maintaining it for so long!
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Why do I have impression that to some people it's like taking away their favorite shitposting playground away.
imho, those who use this as a shitposting playground aren't too concerned about losing Pouet.
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Let the man retire.
Nobody argues with his desire.
The discussion is mainly about other people taking over the administration of the site. Or in your opinion Pouet should have sunk into eternity when Analоgue stopped working on it. That is, about 15 years ago?
What about scene.org then? When retire and this?
Sorry if I haven't been paying attention but: demosceners shit posting and trolling, is that unique to pouet or is that something present on all demoscene thingies with any msgboard/comment/discussion whatever features?
Dubmoo: Wellll… the latest topic in Demozoo is ” RIP POUET ! LONG LIVE DEMOZOO !”
Dear Gargaj,
For the longest time I have admired your dedication. Your efforts have been nothing short of herculean. I am sorry to read that the rewards you got from it are stress and anger. It could not be more unfair. If one day you look back on that time, remember that the entire demoscene esteems you. I hope that deep down it will still mean a little something.
Should you ever need help in life, let me know. You deserve everything.
For the longest time I have admired your dedication. Your efforts have been nothing short of herculean. I am sorry to read that the rewards you got from it are stress and anger. It could not be more unfair. If one day you look back on that time, remember that the entire demoscene esteems you. I hope that deep down it will still mean a little something.
Should you ever need help in life, let me know. You deserve everything.
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Dubmoo: Wellll… the latest topic in Demozoo is ” RIP POUET ! LONG LIVE DEMOZOO !”
I didn't even know demozoo had discussion boards.. ;) I have lived without that need there for so many years... I let it stay that way. :]
Yeah there's one well defined reason this place goes to hell:
Pouet is WOKE
And like everything woke it is inherently toxic.
There are thousands of specialized forums and sites which keep going as long as they keep away from political shit, but you let several talented, locally influential but politically fucked in their heads and mouthy individuals like that german guy with that chick behind him to drag the whole "specialized" community into radical left social network, to an extent that accomplished members got banned on political and personal key. Of course this is the way to kill even not increasingly obscure community.
Having said that, greetings for keeping things up technically but fuckings for totally failing in keeping this place centered.
Pouet is WOKE
And like everything woke it is inherently toxic.
There are thousands of specialized forums and sites which keep going as long as they keep away from political shit, but you let several talented, locally influential but politically fucked in their heads and mouthy individuals like that german guy with that chick behind him to drag the whole "specialized" community into radical left social network, to an extent that accomplished members got banned on political and personal key. Of course this is the way to kill even not increasingly obscure community.
Having said that, greetings for keeping things up technically but fuckings for totally failing in keeping this place centered.
I can still ban btw.
Regardless of what happens to the site going forward, thank you for your service all these years Gargaj - you've provided both an invaluable resource and a "home" to the scene. Enjoy your retirement.
this thread seems to actually perform quite decently at exposing complete doughnuts
Gargaj was instrumental in what pouet became.
If it was Gargaj who singlehandedly made a bunch of nazis butthurt, thank you for your valuable work.
Oh crap, are the seeds of MPGA (Make Pouet Great Again) movement starting to manifest?
Thanks Gargaj, I hope you find better things to move on to! Come to Syntax! No, seriously.
Thanks for all you work and for the dedication you’ve shown in keeping this site functioning technically and socially 🙏
Yeah, major thanks to Gargaj - pouet is an extremely - possibly the most important - general forum and distribution site for the scene, covering all platforms and plenty of social chatter. Good work! Hopefully someone else will help out, preferably as entirely not-an-asshole as you.
Hello,
Well I'm not the most active people around here I think, but anyways.
I think you have done an amazing work over the years to update and opensource the website, and also as a moderator for the forum (surely a thankless job, when you do things right, no one even notices, and when you make a single wrong step, suddenly it will look like everyone is angry at you). For me, having an active moderation and banning the annoying users, certainly made Pouet a better place than it used to be.
I wish you a happy retirement from your admin role, and hope whoever ends up taking the role next does the job as well as you did, for there is still much work to do, and I guess there will always be?
Well I'm not the most active people around here I think, but anyways.
I think you have done an amazing work over the years to update and opensource the website, and also as a moderator for the forum (surely a thankless job, when you do things right, no one even notices, and when you make a single wrong step, suddenly it will look like everyone is angry at you). For me, having an active moderation and banning the annoying users, certainly made Pouet a better place than it used to be.
I wish you a happy retirement from your admin role, and hope whoever ends up taking the role next does the job as well as you did, for there is still much work to do, and I guess there will always be?
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I can still ban btw.
Hahaha ;).
But to be totally honest, in some cases I have got the "logic behind".
But, let's say, I have only seen a surface of the issue(s)...
Hey Gargaj,
I'm sorry to see that the scene has worn you down as much as it has; I've had rough times falling out of love with projects and communities and those were peanuts compared to how much of yourself you invested into pouët and the scene over all these years - so I don't think I can ever really imagine what you're going through but I have a rough idea, and you have all my sympathy!
Thank you for the herculean work you've put into this and other sites over the years. You didn't stop at just trying to keep the site up and running (which in itself is a shitload of work I'm sure) - you shaped it, improved it in sometimes subtle and sometimes not so subtle ways, and through your moderation made a true effort to make the site (and, again, by extension the community) a better place. And on top of that you were always ready to help out when asked - for example by implementing the awards suggestion feature, running custom database queries to help with each year's Meteoriks, or... well, when I singlehandedly slowed the site to a crawl with my clumsy scraping script one Evoke, instead of yelling at me you ran the query for me and got me the data I needed <3 (and berated me which I very much deserved :D )
Every admin/mod decision will make some people unhappy but all the time I've had the impression that you're trying really hard to maintain a balance between letting even the painfully weird people here be weird without censorship and keeping the place from becoming a social media cesspool. You really try to be the impartial judge despite how much some people rub you the wrong way, and that takes a lot of restraint and reflection that deserve my respect.
I'm sad to see you leave with such bitterness in you, and I wish we could retcon into a universe where you passed on the staff a few years ago when you weren't so bitter yet. I hope that (maybe not now but some day) you'll be able to look back and be proud of what you achieved, see the wholesome side of pouët that's definitely here and brings people joy, never mind the fuckwads. And I hope you'll generally stick around to spend time with the people you like here and who like you back despite you being an insufferable grump <3 If we bump into each other at a future party I owe you a few drinks.
I'm sorry to see that the scene has worn you down as much as it has; I've had rough times falling out of love with projects and communities and those were peanuts compared to how much of yourself you invested into pouët and the scene over all these years - so I don't think I can ever really imagine what you're going through but I have a rough idea, and you have all my sympathy!
Thank you for the herculean work you've put into this and other sites over the years. You didn't stop at just trying to keep the site up and running (which in itself is a shitload of work I'm sure) - you shaped it, improved it in sometimes subtle and sometimes not so subtle ways, and through your moderation made a true effort to make the site (and, again, by extension the community) a better place. And on top of that you were always ready to help out when asked - for example by implementing the awards suggestion feature, running custom database queries to help with each year's Meteoriks, or... well, when I singlehandedly slowed the site to a crawl with my clumsy scraping script one Evoke, instead of yelling at me you ran the query for me and got me the data I needed <3 (and berated me which I very much deserved :D )
Every admin/mod decision will make some people unhappy but all the time I've had the impression that you're trying really hard to maintain a balance between letting even the painfully weird people here be weird without censorship and keeping the place from becoming a social media cesspool. You really try to be the impartial judge despite how much some people rub you the wrong way, and that takes a lot of restraint and reflection that deserve my respect.
I'm sad to see you leave with such bitterness in you, and I wish we could retcon into a universe where you passed on the staff a few years ago when you weren't so bitter yet. I hope that (maybe not now but some day) you'll be able to look back and be proud of what you achieved, see the wholesome side of pouët that's definitely here and brings people joy, never mind the fuckwads. And I hope you'll generally stick around to spend time with the people you like here and who like you back despite you being an insufferable grump <3 If we bump into each other at a future party I owe you a few drinks.
Regarding the site, I join the ranks of many others who grew up on pouët and for whom the site was the main viewport into the scene for a long long time. For newcomers I have the feeling it still is (for better or worse). If we figure out how to run the site without a) burning out the people who run it and b) scaring away today's generation of sceners it could stay a valuable resource.
To that end, I'm very much with NinjaKoala (hi!) in that moderation should be stricter. Letting weird people be weird is important but if your behavior persistently causes other people - especially the people who run the place - grief then pouët isn't for you. It is always said that pouët != scene but I disagree - it's a public display of what kind of online behavior the scene will tolerate. Weeding out the bad seeds will over time affect what people think they can get away with and thus their behavior.
But IMO that would require technical changes to the site first, in the shape of more finely grained moderation tools. The only tool we have today is the banhammer, and because it's such a blunt tool the bar to wield it is high. With more finely grained tools it would be easier to hand strikes out to people, allow them to cool down and learn their lesson before we have to eject them.
Ideas:
Temporary bans: Can be used to give people time to cool down (short tempban) or rethink their behavior and become a better person (long tempban). Perhaps with a message they get when they try to log in.
Partial bans: E.g. ban people from posting on the BBS but they can still comment on prods
Moderation log: So a distributed team of moderators can keep track of a person's history and raise the temperature if needed
And to make sure all that burden doesn't end up in the admin's hands yet again, these powers should be available to moderators. They should at least be able to issue temp/partial bans, and maybe even permanent bans with a quorum.
All that said, the giant grain of salt applies that I wouldn't have the time or skills to put my money (or rather, deeds) where my mouth is so take this as what it is - just an opinion on the internet.
To that end, I'm very much with NinjaKoala (hi!) in that moderation should be stricter. Letting weird people be weird is important but if your behavior persistently causes other people - especially the people who run the place - grief then pouët isn't for you. It is always said that pouët != scene but I disagree - it's a public display of what kind of online behavior the scene will tolerate. Weeding out the bad seeds will over time affect what people think they can get away with and thus their behavior.
But IMO that would require technical changes to the site first, in the shape of more finely grained moderation tools. The only tool we have today is the banhammer, and because it's such a blunt tool the bar to wield it is high. With more finely grained tools it would be easier to hand strikes out to people, allow them to cool down and learn their lesson before we have to eject them.
Ideas:
And to make sure all that burden doesn't end up in the admin's hands yet again, these powers should be available to moderators. They should at least be able to issue temp/partial bans, and maybe even permanent bans with a quorum.
All that said, the giant grain of salt applies that I wouldn't have the time or skills to put my money (or rather, deeds) where my mouth is so take this as what it is - just an opinion on the internet.