What's so special about firefox?
category: general [glöplog]
to start an opera you need some tenors and divas. filling a single report won't do.
Yeah, aparently 1/3 of the total world population downloaded it. That's fake since I live on land and I didn't download it.
but i think if more ppl concern about open source stuff this will make big companies to make thire spec. *at least* open source which will help in alot of porting and enhancing them like flash player ,.. etc
kus ma is the dope!
on the other hand i really don't get the idea of saying "i use it because it is open source"... i have a really bad news then, because in commercial software there's crap and most likely hundreds of people already touched the code during a really long time period that it's pure shit. on the open source side of life, there are most likely thousands of people who are "capable" of touching the code and hacking it thus adding more and more crap each day. see the difference? in the open source world you get to see the shit, in the commercial world you can't. but in the end, the shit is there and we all know it.
also, i find it really ridiculous when someone who hasn't even touched the firefox' code accuses opera or any other closed source project being... closed? well for fuck's sake how many times you guys hacked the firefox source and contributed it as a bugfix or whatever the heck it is to your lovely open source community?
therefore, i hope you soon will realize that there's no difference between using open source or closed source software for many of us, as we don't even care about the source. now some of you might say "but if we need to hack it we can download and hack and blabla". well no... believe me it will almost never happen (exception being if you're stallman's personal ass kisser)
i myself use opera by the way, just for the record. and no i don't even have a CVS access or any fancy stuff to reach the code. because i know that it still is more standards compliant than firefox or any other browser out there. as long as this situation doesn't change why should i switch to firefox which gives me a less standard compliant browsing experience possibly with a 50mb source code that will compile in 5 days even on the smallest change...
another stupid thing is that firefox 3 download day?! You know, if you tell people to download the damn software in certain times to break a record, it doesn't count... because you herd, direct and manipulate people to do a certain stuff. thus, firefox is not the most downloaded software in 24h, i don't care whatever all those open source lovers say.
on the other hand i really don't get the idea of saying "i use it because it is open source"... i have a really bad news then, because in commercial software there's crap and most likely hundreds of people already touched the code during a really long time period that it's pure shit. on the open source side of life, there are most likely thousands of people who are "capable" of touching the code and hacking it thus adding more and more crap each day. see the difference? in the open source world you get to see the shit, in the commercial world you can't. but in the end, the shit is there and we all know it.
also, i find it really ridiculous when someone who hasn't even touched the firefox' code accuses opera or any other closed source project being... closed? well for fuck's sake how many times you guys hacked the firefox source and contributed it as a bugfix or whatever the heck it is to your lovely open source community?
therefore, i hope you soon will realize that there's no difference between using open source or closed source software for many of us, as we don't even care about the source. now some of you might say "but if we need to hack it we can download and hack and blabla". well no... believe me it will almost never happen (exception being if you're stallman's personal ass kisser)
i myself use opera by the way, just for the record. and no i don't even have a CVS access or any fancy stuff to reach the code. because i know that it still is more standards compliant than firefox or any other browser out there. as long as this situation doesn't change why should i switch to firefox which gives me a less standard compliant browsing experience possibly with a 50mb source code that will compile in 5 days even on the smallest change...
another stupid thing is that firefox 3 download day?! You know, if you tell people to download the damn software in certain times to break a record, it doesn't count... because you herd, direct and manipulate people to do a certain stuff. thus, firefox is not the most downloaded software in 24h, i don't care whatever all those open source lovers say.
Herd or not, I was going to download it anyway.. It's not a huge rebelious gesture to download it a day afterwards :)
Decipher is so right!
Decipher won the thread.
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therefore, i hope you soon will realize that there's no difference between using open source or closed source software for many of us, as we don't even care about the source. now some of you might say "but if we need to hack it we can download and hack and blabla". well no... believe me it will almost never happen (exception being if you're stallman's personal ass kisser)
Even if you don't directly find having the source useful, you might find use for things that other people do based on it. Flock, Songbird developers certainly found the source useful and some people use what they've created. Safari developers' found KHTML useful. Hell, Mac OS X developers found a huge amount of open source *nix code useful and built their OS on that. Some people find having ports of Firefox on tons of operating systems useful because they happen to prefer using those operating systems. Someone is certainly hacking the code, even if it is not you.
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i myself use opera by the way, just for the record. and no i don't even have a CVS access or any fancy stuff to reach the code. because i know that it still is more standards compliant than firefox or any other browser out there. as long as this situation doesn't change why should i switch to firefox which gives me a less standard compliant browsing experience possibly with a 50mb source code that will compile in 5 days even on the smallest change...
As long as Opera Software thinks it's a good idea to keep it free (and not have ads in it like they used to), as long as the company does not go bankrupt or get acquired by some other corporation that doesn't want to keep releasing Opera, as long as they keep standards-compliance as a priority. As long as the company behind Opera gives you all you want, you are fine. The moment they stop you have no choice but to change browsers.
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another stupid thing is that firefox 3 download day?! You know, if you tell people to download the damn software in certain times to break a record, it doesn't count... because you herd, direct and manipulate people to do a certain stuff. thus, firefox is not the most downloaded software in 24h, i don't care whatever all those open source lovers say.
It's just marketing. Get over it.
slux won the thread.
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Even if you don't directly find having the source useful, you might find use for things that other people do based on it. Flock, Songbird developers certainly found the source useful and some people use what they've created. Safari developers' found KHTML useful. Hell, Mac OS X developers found a huge amount of open source *nix code useful and built their OS on that. Some people find having ports of Firefox on tons of operating systems useful because they happen to prefer using those operating systems. Someone is certainly hacking the code, even if it is not you.
If it wasn't that it would be something else. Besides decipher was talking about users, not developers. I, has a user and maybe even as a developer, don't give a shit about that. Yay! If it wasn't XXX then YYY wouldn't exist, bla bla bla, M$ sucks.
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As long as Opera Software thinks it's a good idea to keep it free (and not have ads in it like they used to), as long as the company does not go bankrupt or get acquired by some other corporation that doesn't want to keep releasing Opera, as long as they keep standards-compliance as a priority. As long as the company behind Opera gives you all you want, you are fine. The moment they stop you have no choice but to change browsers.
So? What's the problem in changing? Don't you change your underwear?
Users benefit from what developers (are able to) do anyway.
I don't know about you but I tend to try to find software I like and use that. I won't start using a jock strap when I happen to like boxers. I'd find it problematic if you could only buy jock straps suddenly.
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So? What's the problem in changing? Don't you change your underwear?
I don't know about you but I tend to try to find software I like and use that. I won't start using a jock strap when I happen to like boxers. I'd find it problematic if you could only buy jock straps suddenly.
If there wasn't for Firefox, we'd still be using IE6 or IE5.5. Preaching like it's the only true way to Salvation is annoying, but competition between browsers is vital to keep things moving forward. And to be honest, Firefox is one of the few quality pieces of consumer open source software.
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Firefox is one of the few quality pieces of consumer open source software
Right after traction intros ;)
btw poi, it appears you were wrong, none of us opera users here have cvs access, and it seems there's more of us than you thought! i suggest you get me cvs access to compensate.
preacher: you're correct about that. for me it mostly shows that the open source community can only make good consumer software if the problem at hand has completely been milked out and perfected (i mean, really just how much have browser interfaces / usability changed over the past 10 years?)
which is not bad, but also nothing special to beat your chest about. the only reason firefox is comparatively cool is that IE wasn't changed for so long in a row. if a certain type of application is in demand without much change for a certain long period of time, an open source variant of it of '
high quality always emerges. but i've only seldomly seen that variant innovate its market beyond the totally obvious ("wow, let's make a plugin API!").
it's impressive how many browser features now common in many places were first seen in opera, the commercial underdog. exactly the same happened for OS shells with mac; nearly all good ideas in shell designs came from there - also the commercial underdog. i think office apps are one of the few widely used types of software where the new good ideas really came from the market leader, OR from the open source community.
but now i forgot why the hell i wrote all of this!
preacher: you're correct about that. for me it mostly shows that the open source community can only make good consumer software if the problem at hand has completely been milked out and perfected (i mean, really just how much have browser interfaces / usability changed over the past 10 years?)
which is not bad, but also nothing special to beat your chest about. the only reason firefox is comparatively cool is that IE wasn't changed for so long in a row. if a certain type of application is in demand without much change for a certain long period of time, an open source variant of it of '
high quality always emerges. but i've only seldomly seen that variant innovate its market beyond the totally obvious ("wow, let's make a plugin API!").
it's impressive how many browser features now common in many places were first seen in opera, the commercial underdog. exactly the same happened for OS shells with mac; nearly all good ideas in shell designs came from there - also the commercial underdog. i think office apps are one of the few widely used types of software where the new good ideas really came from the market leader, OR from the open source community.
but now i forgot why the hell i wrote all of this!
skrebbel: Because you are bored at the office?
INTERNET!
BROWSERS!!!!
OMG!!!!!
BROWSERS!!!!
OMG!!!!!
as a developer myself, i also base some of my sources on top of the open source content available on the net. but as i aforementioned, as a user i'm not deriving a cult out of open source stuff that i'll never be related to.
i know songbird, even have it installed as i find it quite a nice attempt for a different way of media software. but i seriously don't care if it's open source or not...
on the other hand, why are you making such a big mess out of changing opera if the company behind it gives up or something. tell you what, i bet while saying that you thought that open source communities will never give up on the projects and continue to add more and more crap to their lovely software. just a basic question then, what happened to netscape? the company behind it gave up. oh yeah right, we have firefox which is completely based on the ashes of netscape. but those guys can't use the netscape name anymore. netscape performed a nice gesture letting project sources to evolve into firefox. but if they wanted to be such an asshole, they could've just said "screw you" and ban the rights of using the source in a totally new project that will replace the old body.
see? the same balancing factor might also happen in the opera case. if opera ever goes bankrupt or sinks into junk of rotten companies, they might as well open the sources to public and let the project to evolve into something better. believe me, that would certainly be the case as they wouldn't want such a piece of jewel to get lost in the pages of history.
as for the marketing shit, i thought the idea of open source and free software was to provide people an alternative, not to eventually become a piece of capitalist crap. that was the case for EA, check this article for instance. EA started as what Mozilla has as an intention. today if someone tells me that EA is the same EA i'd doubt that person's braincells' existence. maybe not now, but today marketing, tomorrow buying smaller companies to hack the source even more. eventually becoming yet another capitalist shark swimming in the big pool with the others.
i've already gotten over it. maybe you guys should get over the whole weirdness of creating cults out of browsers and then support them 'til you die... if opera sucks today i would go download safari or whatever the second most standards compliant and fastest browser out there. not something else just because it's open source.
also let's not forget, open source or not. community powered or hired engineer powered, Mozilla Corporation is a legal body that can just destroy all those open source lovers' expectations with a single signature.
this is business world, and believe me no one cares about dedicated coders who work volunteraly when it comes to official stuff...
i know songbird, even have it installed as i find it quite a nice attempt for a different way of media software. but i seriously don't care if it's open source or not...
on the other hand, why are you making such a big mess out of changing opera if the company behind it gives up or something. tell you what, i bet while saying that you thought that open source communities will never give up on the projects and continue to add more and more crap to their lovely software. just a basic question then, what happened to netscape? the company behind it gave up. oh yeah right, we have firefox which is completely based on the ashes of netscape. but those guys can't use the netscape name anymore. netscape performed a nice gesture letting project sources to evolve into firefox. but if they wanted to be such an asshole, they could've just said "screw you" and ban the rights of using the source in a totally new project that will replace the old body.
see? the same balancing factor might also happen in the opera case. if opera ever goes bankrupt or sinks into junk of rotten companies, they might as well open the sources to public and let the project to evolve into something better. believe me, that would certainly be the case as they wouldn't want such a piece of jewel to get lost in the pages of history.
as for the marketing shit, i thought the idea of open source and free software was to provide people an alternative, not to eventually become a piece of capitalist crap. that was the case for EA, check this article for instance. EA started as what Mozilla has as an intention. today if someone tells me that EA is the same EA i'd doubt that person's braincells' existence. maybe not now, but today marketing, tomorrow buying smaller companies to hack the source even more. eventually becoming yet another capitalist shark swimming in the big pool with the others.
i've already gotten over it. maybe you guys should get over the whole weirdness of creating cults out of browsers and then support them 'til you die... if opera sucks today i would go download safari or whatever the second most standards compliant and fastest browser out there. not something else just because it's open source.
also let's not forget, open source or not. community powered or hired engineer powered, Mozilla Corporation is a legal body that can just destroy all those open source lovers' expectations with a single signature.
this is business world, and believe me no one cares about dedicated coders who work volunteraly when it comes to official stuff...
okkie : ZEALOTS !!!!
FF3.0 - it's fucking fast. (at least for me here)
btw. i know, opera is also fucking fast and it's also a nice browser...
it's just that i'm used to FF since the time when opera ad-driven...
btw. i know, opera is also fucking fast and it's also a nice browser...
it's just that i'm used to FF since the time when opera ad-driven...
Why don't we just all use the browser we want? How about that?!
![[self-ban]](https://content.pouet.net/avatars/intro.gif)
Rob: Please don't bring sensible arguments into this discussion. Thank you.
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Why don't we just all use the browser we want? How about that?!
Sure. Everybody should use just it's favourised browser!
Any kind of missionarism is just plain ignorant and stupid.
I'm glad that there exists a huge variety and i'm glad that today you can use opensource software for every kind of work you can do with a pc.
that's real freedom imho, (software) technology - independent from money for everybody. that's great.
PROGRAMS!!!
TO BROWSE
THE INTERNET!!!!
(lolcats!)
TO BROWSE
THE INTERNET!!!!
(lolcats!)
I use safari sometimes, but I prefer Firefox since it has such a good plugin system... I replaced my bookmarks with delicious bookmarks, and I can drag-drop images to upload them to imageshack, search youtube by typing yt in the address bar etc... hard to beat that convenience after getting used to it.
