The 64 MB limit at BP07
category: general [glöplog]
You really are a bit "slow", aren't you?
Ok people, that's it!
Walk to the crossing of Franklin ave. and 7th and take this bus at the busstop:
Take it to the last stop and go into this store:
Walk around a bit, check out what they have. It's saturday so they have a 'half off' everything under 20 bucks!
Walk to the crossing of Franklin ave. and 7th and take this bus at the busstop:
Take it to the last stop and go into this store:
Walk around a bit, check out what they have. It's saturday so they have a 'half off' everything under 20 bucks!
ahaha, I missed that good old pic :)
Quote:
I like the reasoning that realtime is still preferable to video because it looks better to the people who matter most (the coders), but doesn't that also mean that a couple more years of computers doing the Moore thing will make video preferable anyway because you'll be able to reach that same resolution and framerate in a filesize that's easy to distribute AND because pure video removes all of the other obstacles holding the artists back.
Don't you get it? (retard-Manwe as well)
The demoscene _is_ realtime. That's the whole point! It doesn't matter _if_ we could render a video in Maya that looks like a million bucks and cram it into a 64 MB file because _noone would bother to do so_! (except the joke-groups, but nobody cares about them anyway).
A demo is a demo. A demo is realtime. End of fucking discussion, because if you don't get _that_, then you might as well just start working as a clerk in the clue shoppe. :)
Quote:
THAT DAMN TRUCK MUST HAVE LOADED A 64MEGABYTES TRAILER....COME ON MOVE IT....BLOODY HELL
kb: Haha, hilarious expression on that cat's face ;)
gloom: You know, once upon a time music was created with trackers - things change, ok? So why is it so hard for you to even CONSIDER the possibility that the scene will more and more drop the realtime-thing and focus more on the visual side of demos? This is exactly what I am afraid of and also why I started replying to this thread. It might be I'm overreacting and being "afraid" for no good reason, dunno. I just hope the scene doesn't go in that direction.
Sorry, it was dodge and not kb who posted that pic.
Hey, Dodge - how are things with the "you know what"? ;)
Hey, Dodge - how are things with the "you know what"? ;)
Gloom, the demoscene is not realtime anymore, it just WAS. Before you blame other people calling them "retards", better look at yourself: don't you simply stay frozen in 90s? That old demos was realtime, right. I'm on the Scene since 1989 or so, I coded 128 byte intros, 4k-intros (for VERY slow platform), coded demos as well, so I KNOW the point and the value of realtime. But today we have a runaway inflation of that idea. The whole cost of realtime became lower and lower every year. It's true, and I don't care if you can't understand such simply thing.
Next, Kb always say his usual words about trackers, but never say the same things about visuals. Just because he don't want to see that something similiar heppens with coders. Who will like it, right? Not me, trully. But if we'll look at all the things honestly, we'll see that videocards has onboard stream video decoders and it is really native (and easy) way to play video throug the card. So, if somebody say "Amiga has 4 channels and low CPU speed, so trackers bla-bla-bla, but now PC has 2 channels and fast CPU, so MP3 bla-bla-bla...", he should (try) to look from this side on visuals as well. Otherwise it would be just NOT objective.
So, I love the Scene, like realtime, like innovations, but I also prefer to see the truth. Blind people can deceive themselves, calling todays slidshows as "realtime", buying videocards priced as camcoders, making 1280x1024 rotating cubes and thinking it looks cooler then movies, etc. I better took low-budget videocard and use that 64 Mb for... Sorry, Tone watching me! No word anymore! It's a top secret for a while :)
Next, Kb always say his usual words about trackers, but never say the same things about visuals. Just because he don't want to see that something similiar heppens with coders. Who will like it, right? Not me, trully. But if we'll look at all the things honestly, we'll see that videocards has onboard stream video decoders and it is really native (and easy) way to play video throug the card. So, if somebody say "Amiga has 4 channels and low CPU speed, so trackers bla-bla-bla, but now PC has 2 channels and fast CPU, so MP3 bla-bla-bla...", he should (try) to look from this side on visuals as well. Otherwise it would be just NOT objective.
So, I love the Scene, like realtime, like innovations, but I also prefer to see the truth. Blind people can deceive themselves, calling todays slidshows as "realtime", buying videocards priced as camcoders, making 1280x1024 rotating cubes and thinking it looks cooler then movies, etc. I better took low-budget videocard and use that 64 Mb for... Sorry, Tone watching me! No word anymore! It's a top secret for a while :)
Quote:
Gloom, the demoscene is not realtime anymore, it just WAS
Seriously... what kind of nonsense is that?!?
HALLO! WAS?
Nutman:
I'm just stuck in the preparations to move my flat since the last days of Dec. (building walls, painting, paper mess...)
Tonight I'm gonna mess around with the "persons section"
in order to finish the basic requirements.
Life is pretty stressed since Xmas, but I'll do what I can to finish it.
I'm just stuck in the preparations to move my flat since the last days of Dec. (building walls, painting, paper mess...)
Tonight I'm gonna mess around with the "persons section"
in order to finish the basic requirements.
Life is pretty stressed since Xmas, but I'll do what I can to finish it.
Quote:
Next, Kb always say his usual words about trackers, but never say the same things about visuals.
Yeah, I'm just totally emo because of the fact that everyone is doing animated videos and nobody's releasing realtime demos anymore, and that we got 100 entries in the video compo and only three shitty WZ prods in the demo compo.
Uh, wait.
Keops, Maali - I can assure you, a lot of people quit watching demos because of 1) low FPS; 2) compatibility. Just look at comments on pouet.net - "video, please!" for every modern demo. Don't you saw it? They prefer video instead of such "realtime". There was no such problems on Amiga (by many reasons, not needed to remind them all here), that's why I said Scene was realtime.
Quote:
So why is it so hard for you to even CONSIDER the possibility that the scene will more and more drop the realtime-thing and focus more on the visual side of demos? This is exactly what I am afraid of and also why I started replying to this thread. It might be I'm overreacting and being "afraid" for no good reason, dunno. I just hope the scene doesn't go in that direction.
I believe there are enough people in the scene who care about the realtime-thing to ensure that realtime demos will still be relevant for, oh, at least another decade - even if compo rules don't enforce that. And that's why I'm not afraid about them dying out. And if I'm wrong, then I guess that makes me a dinosaur whose opinions don't count for shit. And if that ever happens, then that might well make me pissed off enough to rise up against the general trend and continue making my own realtime demos regardless of what the fuck everyone else thinks of them.
Manwe, your comments are the most stupid ones i've read in a long time. It has the same standards as the newbie questions on the gamedev.net forums. So go code realtime stuff and let us pc coders do the video editing alone.
Manwe: sorry but you really make no sense, at all :)
Yes, *some* people (some = majority?) can't watch the current PC demos because of hardware requirements.
But so did Amiga ECS owners with AGA demos or Atari STF owners with Atari STE demos.
I could also bring forth pointless arguments such as "a softsynth is more realtime than a good old mod player somehow", but I won't ;)
Yes, *some* people (some = majority?) can't watch the current PC demos because of hardware requirements.
But so did Amiga ECS owners with AGA demos or Atari STF owners with Atari STE demos.
I could also bring forth pointless arguments such as "a softsynth is more realtime than a good old mod player somehow", but I won't ;)
Manwe: The "video please" part is completely bullshit. People are requesting videos for prods they don't have the native hardware or setup emulator for. And this is most often the case with Amiga prods, btw. Most people highly prefer to watch demos on the hardware they were created on, because this preserves the original characteristics of the prod.
Also your perspective is FAR too consumer-orientated. The scene is not about *watching* productions the most convenient way, it's about *creating* those productions. And this involves the creative process of *coders* working together with *artists*, and the fun this brings. Those coders in the scene wish to *demonstrate* what they are able to create together with the artists.
[...]
Also your perspective is FAR too consumer-orientated. The scene is not about *watching* productions the most convenient way, it's about *creating* those productions. And this involves the creative process of *coders* working together with *artists*, and the fun this brings. Those coders in the scene wish to *demonstrate* what they are able to create together with the artists.
[...]
Therefore things will stay as they are for quite a long time - the scene will stay focussed on realtime, and artists creating videos for the Wild/Animation compo without having coders in their team will stay the EXCEPTION.
Now let's have a look at your tracker-comparison: For most musicians, a tracker isn't really more fun than modern music tools and sequencers, and therefore they choose modern tools, too. For coders, not being part of the scene anymore is NOT more fun than creating realtime productions, and therefore they won't progressively kill that aspect as the tracker musicians have.
Now let's have a look at your tracker-comparison: For most musicians, a tracker isn't really more fun than modern music tools and sequencers, and therefore they choose modern tools, too. For coders, not being part of the scene anymore is NOT more fun than creating realtime productions, and therefore they won't progressively kill that aspect as the tracker musicians have.
Keops, Maali - I can assure you, a lot of people quit watching demos because of 1) low FPS; 2) compatibility. Just look at comments on pouet.net - "video, please!" for every modern demo. Don't you saw it? They prefer video instead of such "realtime". There was no such problems on Amiga (by many reasons, not needed to remind them all here), that's why I said Scene was realtime.
There will never be a scener quiting just because he has no hardware to see a prod! I watch a lot of demos with low FPS on my machine. I complain a lot about Fairlight demos for being slow, but that doesn't mean I prefer or want to see a video.
I don't agree with that PC demo's videos theory. My computer is a laptop with 3 years old hardware (or older) and this year I only couldn't watch 3 demos/intros: Fairlight's Assembly demo (I don't remember the name), a PS3.0 4kb intro, and something else that I don't remember.
If you don't like slow demos maybe you don't really like demos.
There will never be a scener quiting just because he has no hardware to see a prod! I watch a lot of demos with low FPS on my machine. I complain a lot about Fairlight demos for being slow, but that doesn't mean I prefer or want to see a video.
I don't agree with that PC demo's videos theory. My computer is a laptop with 3 years old hardware (or older) and this year I only couldn't watch 3 demos/intros: Fairlight's Assembly demo (I don't remember the name), a PS3.0 4kb intro, and something else that I don't remember.
If you don't like slow demos maybe you don't really like demos.
scamp no, video is demanded just much more for windows demos here in pouet than any other platform.
anes: bullshit. The people demanding videos are those five persons who still can't/won't afford 30 Euros for a PS2.0 compatible graphics card (or are stuck with their four year old laptops like i was until three months ago ;). The same persons whining again and again do not a majority make.
oh, and:
(this is no official bp org statement, yaddablah)
(now really, i can remember myself saying "come on, it's 2004 for fuck's sake, get a freaking PS2.0 card" three years ago and the more that number increments the sillier I feel having to reiterate the same tired shit again and again)
(this is no official bp org statement, yaddablah)
(now really, i can remember myself saying "come on, it's 2004 for fuck's sake, get a freaking PS2.0 card" three years ago and the more that number increments the sillier I feel having to reiterate the same tired shit again and again)
kb: so true.
Take the winner 64k and the winner demo from TUM 2006:
- 227 comments
- only *one* guy asked for a video. Why? Because he owns a *mac*!
Take the winner 64k and the winner demo from TUM 2006:
- 227 comments
- only *one* guy asked for a video. Why? Because he owns a *mac*!
Well, I don't afraid to say "stupid" things and do not care if I looks like an idiot, etc. because all I say is not just my opinion, is not my wishes to Scene furute. I just want to show what really happens: "video please!" on pouet.net for every Firelight's demo. Pantaloon, don't you know who coded that demos, uh? It's a paradox: you call me "stupid" when I point you to "video please!" comments for your demos. I do not ask you a video, just point to other's comments, allright? So, you should know, a lot of demomakers around me (yes, people who produce good demos and intros) often saying "fuck them all!" when they watching to Firelite's (and others) demos/intros.
As Anes said, video is demanded much more for windows demos. You shoul be totally blind and ego-centred if you do not see it. And when I telling you about it, you also looks ears-closed. No see why I don't care who you judge my point of view? Because you even do not judge.
As Anes said, video is demanded much more for windows demos. You shoul be totally blind and ego-centred if you do not see it. And when I telling you about it, you also looks ears-closed. No see why I don't care who you judge my point of view? Because you even do not judge.
gloom: I get that it's realtime. That's the whole point. I always knew that. I have learned a lot though. Let me try to summarize:
Audio isn't realtime these days because otherwise we'd have shit sound quality in demos seeing as how coders don't want to figure out how sound works. That's fine, they care more about visuals. Why? Too hard? Too unrewarding? Fuck knows, it doesn't matter, it's just the way it is. But at least it's likely to stay that way.
Restricting demo content to "what current hardware can handle in realtime" is ideal (applies only to visuals). It's a bit loose because you can mix in some video if you do it in good taste and there's still some (loosely defined) realtime aspect. The overall idea is that the scene as a whole will reject stuff that "isn't realtime enough", regardless of the rules. The PC scene might be more true to the realtime principle than the Amiga scene in that regard.
I've also learned that there's not much thought put into the 20 MB limit in the Amiga compo. Don't mean to bitch about that, but it's bugging me a little.
Believe it or not, I haven't always been very interested in the PC scene. So, much of this is new to me and still hard to get. Some of the reasons I've heard are solid, some of them make very little sense, but I guess maybe you should agree to it all with your gut and not with your brain. Anyway it'll still be interesting to see how the 64 MB PC demo compo turns out.
Audio isn't realtime these days because otherwise we'd have shit sound quality in demos seeing as how coders don't want to figure out how sound works. That's fine, they care more about visuals. Why? Too hard? Too unrewarding? Fuck knows, it doesn't matter, it's just the way it is. But at least it's likely to stay that way.
Restricting demo content to "what current hardware can handle in realtime" is ideal (applies only to visuals). It's a bit loose because you can mix in some video if you do it in good taste and there's still some (loosely defined) realtime aspect. The overall idea is that the scene as a whole will reject stuff that "isn't realtime enough", regardless of the rules. The PC scene might be more true to the realtime principle than the Amiga scene in that regard.
I've also learned that there's not much thought put into the 20 MB limit in the Amiga compo. Don't mean to bitch about that, but it's bugging me a little.
Believe it or not, I haven't always been very interested in the PC scene. So, much of this is new to me and still hard to get. Some of the reasons I've heard are solid, some of them make very little sense, but I guess maybe you should agree to it all with your gut and not with your brain. Anyway it'll still be interesting to see how the 64 MB PC demo compo turns out.
then again, the code for platinum was mostly written on my 3,5-year-old notebook, which wasn't able to run the complete intro till about one day before the deadline (fucking 32mb vram ain't enough when you use rendertargets :). and it has pretty much the same system requirements as theta :)