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Blurya by phibrizzo
[nfo]
screenshot added by Sir_Lucas on 2012-09-17 23:12:31
platform :
type :
release date : september 2012
release party : WeCan 2012
compo : combined intro
ranked : 5th
  • rulez 4
  • is ok 10
  • sucks 1
popularity : 0%
 0%
  • rulez 0.20
alltime top: #14333
added on the 2012-09-17 23:12:31 by Sir_Lucas Sir_Lucas

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4k for this?
sucks added on the 2012-09-17 23:43:06 by StingRay StingRay
"cant open version 0 of mathieeedoubbas.library"
this aint 4k in the end!
i leave a pig here, until you proved you dont need that lib!
Come on guys, show some mercy :) It's his first prod. Due to the fact that it's a starter I leave a thumb up!
rulez added on the 2012-09-18 10:50:52 by Sir_Lucas Sir_Lucas
OK for a first prod
rulez added on the 2012-09-18 10:57:11 by jack-3d jack-3d
mathieeedoubbas.library is default library in AmigaOS.
Maybe its good time to start write Windows demos/intros without dll's (directx fe)
added on the 2012-09-18 11:48:17 by stefkos stefkos
Comparing apples and oranges... mathieeedoubbas.library is NOT necessary to run AmigaOS! And it also is NOT required for 4k intros as you can (and should!) do all that stuff without the library too.
added on the 2012-09-18 11:54:52 by StingRay StingRay
And to add insult to the injury, I really can't find ANY reason why mathieeedoubbas.library is required for such a simple intro.
added on the 2012-09-18 12:27:40 by StingRay StingRay
so, what about PC 4k Windows intros requirements? Should they act like 256b DOS one?
rulez added on the 2012-09-18 12:31:56 by V0yager V0yager
Nevertheless disputable 4k limit fitting, I still like it.
rulez added on the 2012-09-18 13:34:37 by GumBoy GumBoy
V0yager: You might want to answer your question yourself. If you can't, here's a hint: apples and oranges. :)
added on the 2012-09-18 15:49:19 by StingRay StingRay
V0yager: i didnt want to be the first one to answer you, now that Sting told you where to put your mind: nowadays you wont be able to access the screen without accessing the graphics-card, except of the miniByte-Intros approach with 640*480-res, which aint acceptable. so we use some lib to open a window to render on, yes, its NOT cheating at all, as we even WASTE BYTES by having to do so! we even need to render 2 tris to get some ScreenSizedQuad to render on, this is bytes wasted! get your picture straight! we lose bytes instead of gaining anything!
It's not cheating then to use mathieeedoubbas.library.
This library comes with AmigaOS and its integral part of it, If you don't have it then you dont have complete version of AmigaOS system.
I could not find 4kB restrictions but for me it's ok.

Don't try to run it on half of apple.

Reasons, well :
-first intro
-he used AmigaOS API (no additional libs)

Why this is not acceptable ( 640*480-res, which aint acceptable) ?? I love old demos
added on the 2012-09-18 18:55:10 by stefkos stefkos
Using external libraries in 4k intros IS cheating, it's that simple.
added on the 2012-09-18 18:59:04 by StingRay StingRay
Fe:
Invidia/ATI drivers are not required to run windows, you can launch it in VGA mode.

"Comparing apples and oranges... mathieeedoubbas.library is NOT necessary to run AmigaOS! . "

Well, I can agree with you if you agree with me.
added on the 2012-09-18 19:10:22 by stefkos stefkos
Read what you wrote and then ask yourself why I won't discuss this any further with you.
added on the 2012-09-18 19:16:48 by StingRay StingRay
Forgot to add something.... Anyway congrats for first intro.
added on the 2012-09-18 20:07:18 by stefkos stefkos
saying using a diskbased standard amigaos library is cheating, but using a rom one (e.g. "graphics.library") is not, just doesn't make any sense.. a coder doesn't decide whether a library is diskbased or not and some may even be diskbased on some os/rom versions and not on others..
A version which doesn't require mathieeedoubbas.library is in the scene.org waiting room. Waiting to be posted in the proper catalog. Patience :)
added on the 2012-09-18 23:40:54 by Sir_Lucas Sir_Lucas
Quote:
saying using a diskbased standard amigaos library is cheating, but using a rom one (e.g. "graphics.library") is not, just doesn't make any sense.. a coder doesn't decide whether a library is diskbased or not and some may even be diskbased on some os/rom versions and not on others..


I completely disagree. ROM libraries are available as soon as you turn on the machine so it's not cheating to use them as it is required to use at least graphics.library anyway for proper startup. Libraries that are loaded from disk are a completely different thing (Why are they loaded from disk? Because they are not considered important enough to "waste" space in the ROM) and using them in 4k's (or smaller intros) is cheating, plain and simple. And when it comes to 4k intros, which external libraries can you name that are REQUIRED for one to work? I can think of exactly 0.
added on the 2012-09-19 09:00:02 by StingRay StingRay
Quote:
Libraries that are loaded from disk are a completely different thing (Why are they loaded from disk? Because they are not considered important enough to "waste" space in the ROM)

Wrong. Libraries are placed on disk because they are not needed during the boot-up process (up until the boot volume is mounted). That does not make them any less important for the system as a whole.

Is it also cheating to require SetPatch + 68060.library? Not many Amiga demos (4k or otherwise) work without them.

How about OxyPatcher? It's as non-standard as can be (made by demosceners), but most Amiga compos run it, and many demos rely on it (or something equivalent).

As for the intro: Nothing impressive here, but the design is not bad. By all means continue to experiment. Welcome to the Amiga scene.
added on the 2012-09-19 09:35:05 by Blueberry Blueberry
Quote:
Wrong. Libraries are placed on disk because they are not needed during the boot-up process (up until the boot volume is mounted). That does not make them any less important for the system as a whole.


Which implies that all diskbased.libraries are required for the system to work. And that is definitely not true.

Quote:

Is it also cheating to require SetPatch + 68060.library? Not many Amiga demos (4k or otherwise) work without them.


Well, "not many" is quite far fetched as at least Setpatch can be easily avoided when it comes to hardware banging intros. Besides, an intro doesn't open 68060 library on its own and uses its functions, contrary to a certain math library which started this whole discussion.

Quote:

How about OxyPatcher? It's as non-standard as can be (made by demosceners), but most Amiga compos run it, and many demos rely on it (or something equivalent).


If the demo REQUIRES Oxypatcher (I have yet to see one which does) then it is cheating. Also, following your logic, many people drive too fast, does it mean it's OK to do it then?
added on the 2012-09-19 09:47:29 by StingRay StingRay
Quote:
Which implies that all diskbased.libraries are required for the system to work. And that is definitely not true.

Depends on what you mean by "the system". If you mean the software on the system disks, then all the libraries are needed. Anything less is an artificial split.

The fact that most of this stuff is not very useful for demos (that is, if you are running SetPatch + OxyPatcher) is not really an argument for anything. Most demos don't use intuition.library, layers.library or expansion.library for anything either.

Quote:
Well, "not many" is quite far fetched as at least Setpatch can be easily avoided when it comes to hardware banging intros.

Sure, if you can do without data cache and transcendental FPU instructions. :)

Try running a bunch of mainstream demos on 060 without SetPatch and tell me how many work as well as with SetPatch (if at all). Fact is: most demos rely on it.

Quote:
Besides, an intro doesn't open 68060 library on its own and uses its functions, contrary to a certain math library which started this whole discussion.

True, but does it make a difference? A dependency is a dependency.

Quote:
If the demo REQUIRES Oxypatcher (I have yet to see one which does) then it is cheating.

I have seen many that do. And even more that need it to do their precalc in a reasonable amount of time.

Quote:
Also, following your logic, many people drive too fast, does it mean it's OK to do it then?

My logic is that because many countries allow you to drive fast, then it is OK to do it. Of course that logic is not flawless either (people get killed even when the traffic laws are obeyed), but it illustrates my point:

What is cheating and what is not is defined by tradition (i.e. typical compo rules), not by some technical distinction.
added on the 2012-09-19 11:42:59 by Blueberry Blueberry
It strikes me that using the directx libs in a dos demo would definitely be cheating, while using the directx libs in a windows demo is considered normal.

This looks to be the same scenario - it's a 4k that runs under the amidos / workbench platform rather than as a bootblock or something. I can't see the issue with using the standard system libs in that case.

Not seen the demo, so no vote :)
added on the 2012-09-19 12:22:54 by psonice psonice
OK
added on the 2012-09-19 22:34:56 by mailman mailman
video?
video? requirements?
added on the 2012-09-21 09:48:49 by pista pista
I like the glowing/blurring effect, but I have to admit: For a 4k it lacks a bit content. Squeeze it into 1k and we have a winner! ;)

Interesting discussion, btw.
added on the 2012-09-23 00:11:02 by pintcat pintcat
Video anyone?
added on the 2012-10-14 23:18:52 by BackSpace BackSpace

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