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Hugi #29 - The Blue One by Hugi [web]
[nfo]
screenshot added by Adok on 2004-08-08 20:57:34
platform :
type :
release date : august 2004
  • rulez 17
  • is ok 27
  • sucks 57
popularity : 67%
 67%
  • sucks -0.40
alltime top: #38130
added on the 2004-08-08 20:51:11 by René Madenmann René Madenmann

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First impressions: To much "scene is dead"-texts, two themes (std. theme looks to much like a coder theme), some nice pieces of music. A piggy face so far. :)
Ok, after skimming through some of the texts I feel the urge to flame them (for example that space article).

Therefore I think it is a great idea to have a webedition of hugi which allows comments.
added on the 2004-08-08 21:35:34 by Stelthzje Stelthzje
Another advantage of a webedition: No ugly 640x480 interface anymore.
added on the 2004-08-08 21:36:36 by Stelthzje Stelthzje
stelthz:
Please send your comments on that Space article both to its author, Black Knight, and me! Also tell me if you want to have it published in the next Hugi issue.
added on the 2004-08-08 22:09:04 by Adok Adok
contentswise could have been better but these days the standarts arnt that high as in the past anyway a very nice job! Keep up the good work adok!
rulez added on the 2004-08-08 22:12:25 by magic magic
Very nice, except the graphics. =)
rulez added on the 2004-08-08 22:23:31 by sprocket sprocket
Ok Adok, here is the thumb down:
Quote:

Q: What do Jacques Chirac and dipswitch have in common?

A: Both of them are selfimportant pygmies!
sucks added on the 2004-08-09 02:26:22 by René Madenmann René Madenmann
I second everything Magic said. Not because he's my hero but because he made a good point. Well done Hugi staff!
rulez added on the 2004-08-09 02:48:21 by Shanethewolf Shanethewolf
(Magic is my hero)
I liked the fractal compression article.. Also the Flashbacks story deserves a couple of thousand thumbs up!
rulez added on the 2004-08-09 03:35:48 by loaderror loaderror
Knights' Storm isn't in the greetings, you suck.
sucks added on the 2004-08-09 03:58:47 by skarab skarab
mediocre gfxs, too big font and ugly aliasing, bad interface... take a look to the old Amiga mags like RAW for example, and make a better interface please.

and about Adok's article about pouet.net : what a shame, you did not speak about the top ten glöppers as active people. you suck guy! prods sheets are filled by the most active glöppers! without us, database will be empty, remember that! BBS is just a result of a filled and up-to-date database.
and you did not known the origin of the word 'glöp' ? take a look to the Pifou : BB Image
sucks added on the 2004-08-09 12:47:44 by Zone (leZone) Zone (leZone)
Zone: did you write for this new issue ? I dont think so.. Support issue 30 than instead. Shane: since you arnt my Hero either (you are a complete asshole) I thank you for your positive remark.

btw. vote for the new EC (read article in hugi29 :-)
added on the 2004-08-09 20:52:21 by magic magic
I liked the article on Fractal Compression.

And yeah, a great interface makes a huge difference see RAW/Showtime/SeenPoint.

I eagerly awaited each issue Showtime and SeenPoint, they were just so damn good, much like I did for ROM/RAW/Grapevine a few years before em.
added on the 2004-08-09 21:03:07 by Intrinsic Intrinsic
"contentswise could have been better but these days the standarts arnt that high as in the past anyway"

well, this "good old days" blabbing is bull. so well in my humble opinion the hugi mag has a real problem now. i think this issue makes it more clear than ever. hugi DOES need contributors AND NOT just texts to fill space. graphics could be better. interface has also been better before. hm. and i think bashing people for writing articles is lame too :). expecially teh coding area was kinda empty. makes me really feel like i have to write an article :). tho still thumbs up for older issues and the hope that it will go up again.
rulez added on the 2004-08-10 00:22:44 by trigger trigger
erm at least that cover looks disgusting.
added on the 2004-08-10 00:45:38 by meCh\bps meCh\bps
and _PLEASE_ link the prod DIRECTLY to the very file not any shit page.
added on the 2004-08-10 00:47:04 by meCh\bps meCh\bps
MadenMann:
Ich werde mit Maestro Monteverdi ein ernstes Wörtchen reden. ;)
added on the 2004-08-10 02:42:00 by Adok Adok
very nice to read another issue of hugi, alltho could have had better content.
rulez added on the 2004-08-10 07:34:56 by pantaloon pantaloon
MadenMann:
Dass überhaupt jemand auf die Idee kommen kann, diesen armen, harmlosen dipswitch, der vermutlich in seinem ganzen Leben noch nie jemandem größeres Leid getan hat, mit diesem größenwahnsinnigen Westentaschen-Napoleon Chirac zu vergleichen!
added on the 2004-08-10 10:36:02 by Adok Adok
adok, english please. i can say: kurna mac wypieprzaj ze swoimi niemieckimi tekstami and you won't understand that dude as well... but anyway - nice texts, horrible graphics. and some pathetic "how to save the scene" texts by unknown by their productions ppl.
added on the 2004-08-10 13:02:15 by meCh\bps meCh\bps
adok wants to have sex with me and optimus will be back.
o_O
added on the 2004-08-10 13:50:53 by psenough psenough
The magazine that once meant something got even suckier. Totally tasteless. And Adok is probably the greatest dork walking around on this planet.
sucks added on the 2004-08-10 15:08:53 by superplek superplek
adok, halt einfach dein maul okay? ich hab keinen streit angefangen aber wenn du mich unbedingt zu deinen persönlichen feinden zählen willst kannst du die feindschaft gerne haben. ich hab dir nie was getan aber offensichtlich kannst du der wahrheit nicht ins auge sehen und keine kritik an deinem ach so populären mag vertragen.

and the magazine is filled with horror, so to say. adok, how fucked up can you been using the forbidden, nazi-misused part of the german anthem to make the scene version out of it? braune gesinnung, eh?.. then, a shitload of "how to make scene better" articles by someone from a group noone probably ever heard of. especially the first big "save the scene" article is the worst thing ever i've read. the guy sounds like a fucking renegade! one can be lucky that he doesnt seem to have much influence in the demoscene at all, cause his ideas would not make the demoscene better but make it dead, being "just another multimedia community".

the only nice articles are those by diamondie (hey, you should check out evoke netlabel night, we're doing exactly the same thing you're dreaming of:), and optimus (i rather enjoy reading his well-written rantings than some pathetic "scnee-sucks-lets-save-it" calls by nobodies).

so, all in all, NO, this did not convince me at all, although i gave it a try. and no, adok, please dont start again with "uh he's so superstitios he didn't read the real-life articles at all and rae rae rae". indeed, i didnt read them, cause i don't really care. i can read real newspapers and magazines for better reallife content.
sucks added on the 2004-08-10 15:23:31 by dipswitch dipswitch
crap... like the last 3-4 issues... even worser...


sucks added on the 2004-08-10 15:36:08 by Igoronimo Igoronimo
what is this guy talking about :

'Save the scene' article: "Release demos as animations" (all that with capital letters). Because then Amiga users will be able to see them.

This is by far the biggest pile of wank ever published. On any media. Ever.

"Animations or Die " ! Haha.. fool.
sucks added on the 2004-08-10 15:45:58 by Navis Navis
A thumb up for Dip and the others who are currently rightfully so lambasting the shit out of Hugi!
added on the 2004-08-10 17:11:01 by superplek superplek
plek, actually i think we're "lambasting the shit out of hugi" for different reasons. you don't care for diskmags at all, i care for diskmags and thus am unpleased about a bad one. so, no false solidarity, please.
added on the 2004-08-10 17:14:09 by dipswitch dipswitch
'two no-good things about the scene' article by 'Burt Lancaster'. This guy has some real problems to sort out with himself..
added on the 2004-08-10 17:22:30 by Navis Navis
First: I don't do solidarity. Regardless of your reasons, I'm promoting your actions taken on this specific occasion.

Quote:
you don't care for diskmags at all


Second: Where in your big book of knowledge could you find that? You need to settle down a little. Sit down and ask yourself: who are you to be so judgemental about these things that once were an important manner of communication within this scene? Without you, would there be less to communicate about, back in the days? I don't think so.

So there you go mister big-shot.
added on the 2004-08-10 17:27:52 by superplek superplek
a tit!
rulez added on the 2004-08-10 19:44:57 by drstranger drstranger
okay, back to the original topic. let this thread not be ground for personal disses!...
here for some constructived criticism on some selected, so noone can say i'm just a biased superficional hater.

a) "how to save the demoscene" by ep:

inacceptable theses by someone who seemingly misunderstood what the scene is about and doesn't care for the preservation of a specific demoscene character. he wants to convert the unique demoscene in just one of many multimedia-creative communities, just to "go in time" with the general developement. for example, size limitations are for him an artifact of the past, not going in hand with the possibilities of nowadays storage hardware. but there's a big anachronism in there! what has the 4kb size limit to do with storage hardware developement? i dont know any storage device on ANY machine that could handle only 4kb, so the whole size-related ranting is pointless.

the ranting about animation instead of realtime effect execution is absolute blasphemy and inacceptable. demos ARE about realtime code execution, and also, concerning EP's outreach pleas, the realtime aspect of democoding is one of the main promotion aspects of outreach organisations like our digitale kultur e.V. besides that animation-only would break with traditions, the realtime aspect is getting far more people interested in demoscene than animations would do. as someone being involved in the outreach work of digitale kultur e.v. i can totally contradict his thesis about "(the technology) is totally ignored", cause this is simply not the case.

the next chapter, "remove black & white...", does not need to be commented on and just shows the narrowness of EP's aesthetic horizon. i read quite a lot on aesthetics of totalitarian societies in the last months (works by paperny, groys and other culture-philosophers and historicians), and EP's views in this chapter are very much reminding me on these... "socialistic realism" in the ussr from 1932 on also required from all artforms to bring on "cheerful", "lively" and so on motives. "seeing a firm, a factory with rusty pipes, fumes, cars or geometric stuff isn't fun at all" perfectly resembles the views of stalinist aesthetics towards futurism, constructivism and other avant-garde artistic movements. with theses like these, EP positions himself on the side of political reaction and cuts himself off from the avant-gardistic developement of the past 120 years. there's no way to save a progressive movement like the demoscene using the aesthetics of reactionary movements like soc-realism. (by the way, EP's other article "philosophy of and[?] ideas..." carries the same spirit. the slogan "we need more life on screen" was exactly what killed the 20s avant-garde cinema in the ussr, giving birth to aesthetically dead "realistic" pictures).

and in this context, the next chapter "we have to be realist" doesnt need any further comment, since this perfectly matches the phrases of the birth of socialistic realism in 1932. the "we must change sceners" fits perfectly in that context too - it's a try to establish behavement and living norms, a position that the demoscene as an anarchically-rooted community just has to reject. if someone drinks alcohol or eats fastfood is the individual's own business, it has NOTHING to do with the scene.

to close this in EP's own pathetic way of formulating end-theses:

EMMANUEL POIRTIER IS BAD FOR THE SCENE
HE WANTS TO REDUCE THE CREATIVITY OF THE SCENE TO ONE AESTHETIC AND ONE TECHNICALL APPROACH
HE REPRESENTS AESTHETICAL STAGNATION AND AT THE SAME TIME THE UPROOTING OF SCENE TRADITIONS
SHAME ON HUGI FOR GRANTING HIS IDEAS A FORUM

b) "two no-good things about the demoscene" by burt lancaster:

this article is soo wrong it doesnt even need much commenting. the first part, instead of getting creative females into the scene, simply scares them off. the second part, blaming slengpung.com for alcohol over-consumption and stagnation of the scene, is just so fucked up in its essence that there's really no need to lose more words on it.

c) "certified demo coder" by prodigy sandy (who?):

another pitiful attempt towards institutionalisation of the scene movement. goes hand in hand with EP's totalitarian-esque views on aesthetics. if this article would be in the "humour" category, it would be okay, but this seem to be serious. scary...

d) "piracy" by ep:

an attempt on analyzing a deep phenomena, even not as bad on certain spots. but considering p2p as the root of modern piracy makes ep even more stupid than GVU, RIAA and other copyright-enforcing organisations.

e) "scene national anthems" by adok:

okay, now for some attempt on humour. apart from the aspect i don't see any slightly spark of fun and originality in the idea of paraphrasing state anthems (collecting typical songs sceners sing on demoparties would be a far more interesting approach), i have one plea to adok: if you are dealing with some matter, make sure you have knowledge about it! this article shows that our oh-so-intellectual-superstudent adok don't really have a clue what he's writing about. first of all, if you took "functioning" anthems for all the countries, why did you take the german nazi anthem for paraphrasation? a subtile hint on all germans still being nazis? or just a show-off of your cluelesness? yes, i know that that part of the anthem was created before 1848 and stood in a totally different political context originally, but, all ideological ballast aside, this is NOT the current german anthem. (a bit aside the topic, but, on the parody of the polish anthem, i was just laughing - "jescze szena ne zginela / kiedy Hugi zyje" meaning "the scene isn't dead if hugi is still living". no comment needed). now for the russian anthem. first of all, didn't they teach you scientific cyrillic-latin transcription at your elite university? and then, the "szener" inpolantations absolutely make no sense because if you really knew russian, you knew that "szener" gets emphasized on the first syllable, while the metric rhythm of the anthem demands a emphasation on the last one. so, what we have here, is a spasmodic attempt on creating something funny - yes it is funny, but not the way you probably attempted it to be.



all in all, with this issue, hugi turns out not only to be totally irrelevant, but also to carry all sort of dubious "opinions" by mostly people the scene never heard of. what is this, an attempt to keeping a dead project alive by pumping all sorts of controversial and dubios theories in it? adok, you alsways pretend to be so political conscious - now draw the political parallels on what you've collected and created!

with this ussue, hugi proves its "lameness" once and for all.

but to comfort you, adok, the music in this issue was mostly okay, and the articles by diamondie and optimus (and perhaps some tutorials, i did not check them) were at least something nice to read. but that's all positive i can say on such a coglomeration of confusion, reaction and pure lameness.


added on the 2004-08-10 19:50:42 by dipswitch dipswitch
whoever finds types, he may keep and eat them. and about the storage deviced, yes i know there might be some rom chips with 4kb storage - what i ment is that were never 4kb storage limitations on any of the machines 4kb intros were common on.
added on the 2004-08-10 20:14:03 by dipswitch dipswitch
typOs even =)
added on the 2004-08-10 20:15:24 by dipswitch dipswitch
Hugi gives alot to think about which is obviously one aspect a magazine has. To influence the readers to start up a discussion. Hugi did it! btw Dip if you CAN DO BETTER release a magazine for yourself and see how you will do it! To easy to trow mud, crticism is something else. Respects to hugi, though also I think the contents could be better. But without good contributors... *sigh* Adok cant write all himself. Support hugi issue 30 will you all ? thank you for your attention!
added on the 2004-08-10 20:18:15 by magic magic
*applause to dipswitch*
added on the 2004-08-10 20:20:26 by Preacher Preacher
magic, i already said i want this thread to get away from personal questions. but, to answer your claim, i'm participating in jurassic pack and pain for quite some time and released a well-respected textmode art scnen mag on my own from 1999 to 2001. so, better check what people do before throwing in unneccesary criticism. and no, i will NOT support hugi especially after this issue revealing the mags reactionary nature.
added on the 2004-08-10 20:21:17 by dipswitch dipswitch
plus, throwing up controversion does not say ANYTHING about the quality of a mag. else you could regard tabloid newspapers and extremist zines as high-quality press releases.
added on the 2004-08-10 20:23:14 by dipswitch dipswitch
blahhh
added on the 2004-08-10 20:24:03 by NuKem NuKem
dip, haven't you better released this comment, actually being an article in some magazine if you really care about them?

magic, criticism is allowed, whoever you are and whatever you did as far as it is at least a little bit constructive.

another flame war won't help anyone or make scene better. i blame the adok for starting another pointless and idless discussion. furthermore, i am sure he did it to annoy you and the best way is to ignore that actions. just prove you're better than him by ignoring his provocations.

most mature reaction is silence now. please do not continue this, war leads to nowhere. and no, i'm not a pacifist.
added on the 2004-08-10 20:43:53 by meCh\bps meCh\bps
anyway, i'm curious what will adok say about it all.
added on the 2004-08-10 20:51:38 by meCh\bps meCh\bps
It's starting to get interesting now.. Let's wait :)
added on the 2004-08-10 21:33:20 by superplek superplek
Agreements don't nessecarely have to be made. Everybody has his own oppions and backgrounds. Their own view on subjects. As long as we respect them from eachother (not nessecarely agree on them) we all follow our own paths.. Hugi follow's his path. If people claim hugi can do better wouldnt it be nice to support Hugi instead of throwing mud? Honoustly we a more positive and open minded and objective oppinion the world would be for sure a better place! Amen! And god bless all magazine released!
added on the 2004-08-10 21:48:37 by magic magic
p.s. message to DIP: I was not talking about your past archievements but what you can do in anno domini 2004. Can you at this time, at the phase of your life you are in now release a better diskmagazine than hugi? (if you anser yes than do it) becuase supporting or participating is something different than actually be the driving force of release 29 issues of a magazine in 6 years time :)
added on the 2004-08-10 21:51:58 by magic magic
It`s pathetic to watch all the diskmag editors come out of their dungeons and fight in the daylight.

Read my lips, diskmags is dead :)
sucks added on the 2004-08-10 21:57:31 by Zplex Zplex
as dead as you discribe it
added on the 2004-08-10 21:58:17 by magic magic
magic: then read what adok has written and think again WHO is throwing mud.
added on the 2004-08-10 21:58:34 by meCh\bps meCh\bps
like:

Scener one: You're a selfimportant pygmie
Scener two: I do not agree with you.
Scener three: Hey, scener two stop throwing the mud! Help scener one instead of blaming him!
added on the 2004-08-10 22:03:40 by meCh\bps meCh\bps
that's to black and white meCH.
ANd you know it! If all people want to do good but for whatever reason dont agree, respect their oppinion and the free speach, way to interact or the art they make.
added on the 2004-08-10 22:05:40 by magic magic
as all the idiots of pouet gave a comment here, i have to do that too (solitary with the idiots inside us all)

adok is gay
hugi is dead
sucks added on the 2004-08-10 22:15:43 by elkmoose elkmoose
urg....
thumb up for dipswitch (not for battling adok, just for pointing out all bullshit)

executables suck anyway...
"Animation or Die !" ^ ^
sucks added on the 2004-08-10 22:15:57 by ttl ttl
tmb: scoopex is dead to except for the tries you make to uphold a dying scx race! :)
added on the 2004-08-10 22:19:07 by magic magic
a thumb down just for that moronic "how to save the demoscene" thing.
sucks added on the 2004-08-11 01:12:45 by okkie okkie
Quote:
e) "scene national anthems" by adok:

okay, now for some attempt on humour. apart from the aspect i don't see any slightly spark of fun and originality in the idea of paraphrasing state anthems (collecting typical songs sceners sing on demoparties would be a far more interesting approach), i have one plea to adok: if you are dealing with some matter, make sure you have knowledge about it! this article shows that our oh-so-intellectual-superstudent adok don't really have a clue what he's writing about. first of all, if you took "functioning" anthems for all the countries, why did you take the german nazi anthem for paraphrasation? a subtile hint on all germans still being nazis? or just a show-off of your cluelesness?

yes, i know that that part of the anthem was created before 1848 and stood in a totally different political context originally, but, all ideological ballast aside, this is NOT the current german anthem.



Dear dipswitch, you are as wrong as you are most of the time. This IS the current German anthem.

The text was composed by August Heinrich Hoffmann von Fallersleben (1798 - 1874) in the year 1841. The music is from Joseph Haydn (1732 - 1809). The anthem consists of three verses. At official celebrations usually only the music is played, without singing; and if there is singing, then people sing only the third verse.

The Nazi anthem which you are talking about all the time was the so-called "Horst-Wessel-Lied".

During the rule of the Nazis, this song was played right after the German national anthem. You being a student of history ought to know this.
added on the 2004-08-11 09:41:27 by Adok Adok
Quote:
a) "how to save the demoscene" by ep:

...

the next chapter, "remove black & white...", does not need to be commented on and just shows the narrowness of EP's aesthetic horizon. i read quite a lot on aesthetics of totalitarian societies in the last months (works by paperny, groys and other culture-philosophers and historicians), and EP's views in this chapter are very much reminding me on these... "socialistic realism" in the ussr from 1932 on also required from all artforms to bring on "cheerful", "lively" and so on motives.


Emmanuel Poirier has written that the scene "lacks creativity". "The problem with nowadays demos is their lack of creativity: 80% of the time I download stuff from scene.org or pouet.net I do not see nice contents: black environments with geometric shapres, quite anxious stuff and this will not drive more people to the scene. ..."

What does this have to do with "socialist realism"?! Socialist realism was about showing the working class at labour. In the German Democratic Republic, for example, it was like this: when you created a song about love, the text was required to deal with the love of a kolchos farmer's daughter to a tractor driver.

Emmanuel Poirier has not written anything that could be considered "socialist realism"!

Quote:
the "we must change sceners" fits perfectly in that context too - it's a try to establish behavement and living norms, a position that the demoscene as an anarchically-rooted community just has to reject. if someone drinks alcohol or eats fastfood is the individual's own business, it has NOTHING to do with the scene.


Emmanuel Poirier writes: "And we must change ourselves: we are the elite. Why are you making yourself uncomfortable and ill? Are you drinking? Are you eating absolutely everything? Hey, this is your health, this is your life, don't waste it. We need you in good shape, in good health, in good mental health, yes we need good coders, good musicians, good graphicians, and we need a good spirit, without competition, 'I'm the best, you are a lamer' is not a good spirit, it's the spirit of bad mannered-people."

I am unable to see any connection with "socialist realism". Health, mental health, good spirit - these are things that are important for every human being.

You are making outrageous associations. Not with the best will in the world would I be able to follow your path of thinking.
added on the 2004-08-11 09:44:23 by Adok Adok
No, diskmags are not dead. This one does seem like a rotting zombie though.
sucks added on the 2004-08-11 09:47:30 by break break
About dipswitch in general:

There are three words I've never read in any comment of yours: "in", "my" and "opinion". You always present your opinion as it if were the absolute truth. That's a method which makes discussion impossible, and it's a feature of an authoritarian ideology. The basic feature of democracy is freedom of opinion, and it's one of the layers which our civilized society is based on. But if you present something as being the absolute truth, you protect yourself from people who might have better arguments.

I'd recommend that you read books by Karl Popper, especially "The Open Society and Its Enemies" ("Die offene Gesellschaft und ihre Feinde") and "The Logic of Scientific Discovery" ("Logik der Forschung").
added on the 2004-08-11 09:56:46 by Adok Adok
adok^hugi> yeah you're right. and what about adding K-Storm in the Hugi30 greetings please ?

I love you to.
added on the 2004-08-11 10:01:52 by skarab skarab
Socialist realism or not, the fact remains that Emmanuel Poirier has NO FUCKING CLUE about what he's writing about.

You quoted it yourself: "and we need a good spirit, without competition, 'I'm the best, you are a lamer' is not a good spirit, it's the spirit of bad mannered-people"

As sad at is may seem: exactly THIS is what the scene was founded on and exactly THIS is what keeps people productive.

So I totally second dipswitch's points. Except maybe his political excursions, but the general tendencies are correct.

And btw, this time also the visuals and the music suck ass. As somebody already said, the mag looks like coder art, the font renderer screws up the antialiasing (Cleartype doesn't look TOO good in 640x480), and all the music was SO 1995 and "look, i just downloaded FT2" it hurts.
sucks added on the 2004-08-11 10:03:24 by kb_ kb_
hugi#29 absolutely lacks content.
sucks added on the 2004-08-11 10:17:50 by rp^frstl rp^frstl
dip' & 'dok:
arguing on webforums is so 90's. have a good talk at buenzli, guys! (as you both seem to visit the party).
you'll be able to show your clever and cool attitude! (i know that dip' has both of them, but no clue about 'dok, as i've never met him... and i'm not judging people according to their webpages.. ahaha).
added on the 2004-08-11 10:20:10 by fred fred
There's one thing I wonder about.. Even th ough I like to give my opinion on what I've seen happening to Hugi the past few years I am *not* giving it another chance. You guys should do that too. Just ditch it if you know it ain't good from the start and completely ignore it instead of bitching, since it's obviously not getting the magazine any further under the stern leadership of Adok (a man seemingly fitted with enough arrogance to rank in the 'intellectual adonis' category); there's no reasoning with this type of people when it comes to modification of their concept(s). Even if the rest of the world thinks it's for the better.

So give up, please.

added on the 2004-08-11 10:38:17 by superplek superplek
glop :)
added on the 2004-08-11 11:13:09 by AbcuG! AbcuG!
[/quote]
The text was composed by August Heinrich Hoffmann von Fallersleben (1798 - 1874) in the year 1841. The music is from Joseph Haydn (1732 - 1809). The anthem consists of three verses. At official celebrations usually only the music is played, without singing; and if there is singing, then people sing only the third verse.
[/quote]
yes and what do you think why they sing only the 3rd verse? because only the 3rd verse is the official anthem nowadays! get a clue! if you still dont believe, i have an official german constitution lying around here, with the anthem on the back.


Quote:

What does this have to do with "socialist realism"?! Socialist realism was about showing the working class at labour. In the German Democratic Republic, for example, it was like this: when you created a song about love, the text was required to deal with the love of a kolchos farmer's daughter to a tractor driver.

i wonder what you have (not) read to come to such a simplified view of socialist realism. please read: vladimir paperny, architecture in the age of stalin. culture two, cambridge 2002. then you'll see it's all not so one-dimensional as you see it. it's perhaps even not even about socialist realism only, but about a shift from one aesthetical value-system to another.

Quote:

I am unable to see any connection with "socialist realism". Health, mental health, good spirit - these are things that are important for every human being.

not with socialist realism itself, but with totalitarian thinking in general. it's not a coincidence that the cultivation of poppy and cannabis indica was prohibited in the ussr only in the 1930s. and it's no coincidence that forced sports and a glorification of absolute health is/was to be found in many totalitarian societies. perhaps EP regards not drinking alcohol and eating no "bad" food an important part of his lifestyle, i do aswell when it comes to food, but when he or i would start to force our points on others, then it's nothing else than bad.

Quote:

There are three words I've never read in any comment of yours: "in", "my" and "opinion". You always present your opinion as it if were the absolute truth.

have you ever read any scientific text that says "in my opinion" all three sentences? i don't need to write that, it should be clear anyway that this is my opinion, which i regard for reasonable, but which is no golden rule.

Quote:

I'd recommend that you read books by Karl Popper, especially "The Open Society and Its Enemies" ("Die offene Gesellschaft und ihre Feinde").

are you showing off with the only books you've read or why are you recommending it to me? what connection to our discussion should it have? am i perhaps the "enemy" of the "open society"? i've read the book of course but i neither see any connection whatsoever to our debate on how acceptable the views of EP are, nor to the debate on hugi's questionable quality. oh, perhaps you mean "uh uh we live in a free society, everyone is allowed to say what he wants so why are you attacking us so hard blahblah" yes indeed we live in an open society, and i'm definetely making use of it here. open society is when noone is going to prohibit your nowadays-pitiful diskmag, not when everyone has to admire it. neither is open society when clueless freaks like EP try to force his questionable standarts upon people, going as far as suggesting ready motives for demos, claiming that certain things are generally "fun to watch" and certain things are not. if you dont understand the reactionary nature of EP's article series i'm quite willing to explain it to you at buenzli (if i wont be too drunk:).
added on the 2004-08-11 14:08:33 by dipswitch dipswitch
and i think i'll stop continuing this discussion here. expect an answer-article on EP in some diskmag somewhen.
added on the 2004-08-11 14:13:19 by dipswitch dipswitch
Quote:
and i think i'll stop continuing this discussion here. expect an answer-article on EP in some diskmag somewhen.
And I totally second that statement. Let's give pain some additional kilobytes. At last it's finally some _real_ topic to talk about, not a insubstantial bullshit about saving the scene.
added on the 2004-08-11 14:49:57 by meCh\bps meCh\bps
I'm sorry adok but I don't like this issue :( May be we're expect much more, sorry... but thumbs up... becouse... becouse... hey, this is hugi at last ! :) awaiting for #30 ! It must be SOMETHING AMAZING !
rulez added on the 2004-08-11 14:53:32 by Someone Someone
Adok said:
Quote:
The basic feature of democracy is freedom of opinion, and it's one of the layers which our civilized society is based on.

And adok said:
Quote:
Q: What do Jacques Chirac and dipswitch have in common?

A: Both of them are selfimportant pygmies!



Last words from me. It does not need any comment, but i will bother writing something for braindeads. There is a freedom of speach, but as you know not _every_ speach is acceptable, even in democratic world as you describe it. The words of 'selfimportant pygmy' are so called insults and may be treaten as misdemeanor.
added on the 2004-08-11 15:02:05 by meCh\bps meCh\bps
Quote:
hugi#29 absolutely lacks content.

Acctually we're all guilty in this, 'couse adok can't write all the content by himself... I wrote "another-opengl-tutorial-for-begginers" but, it's useless, as we allready have NeHe tutorials (though my was in FASM...) But I'm plannin' write an "tiny-intros optimizing tutorial" something like gems of optimizing... though I'm not think I'm worse/skilled enough for hugi... but, in this content's situation...
added on the 2004-08-11 15:02:20 by Someone Someone
dudes, lets all come together with issue 30. Lets all support hugi issue 30 and make it the best issue since a long while. No words but deeds please! Thank you for your attention.
added on the 2004-08-11 16:57:33 by magic magic
magic, definetely not. i'd rather support some diskmags that i like. you can stick to the dead horse named hugi instead...

huh, i wanted not to reply at all :P
added on the 2004-08-11 18:09:33 by dipswitch dipswitch
I guess that's a job for Shane!
magic, please die
i want to dance and piss on your grave
added on the 2004-08-11 18:37:03 by elkmoose elkmoose
if we read old hugis there is text by some
unknown "sceners" who claim scene is dead
and blablabla, its always being same. now
its just so boring that it hurts, and EP articles
sucks ass...
sucks added on the 2004-08-11 18:52:02 by uns3en_ uns3en_
muharharhar (sorry cant resist)
added on the 2004-08-11 19:10:48 by trigger trigger
sucks added on the 2004-08-11 19:45:33 by xeNusion xeNusion
sucks added on the 2004-08-11 22:04:39 by Hatikvah Hatikvah
sucks added on the 2004-08-11 22:05:54 by teel teel
Its not about liking, support it so you can like it again.. COme with positive thinking ways. And TMB you momma I piss on here..
added on the 2004-08-11 23:04:12 by magic magic
magic: stop thinking and start doing, you produce a lot of hot air...
added on the 2004-08-12 00:14:21 by Stelthzje Stelthzje
Just realized there is a small typo in the Integration tut... See if you can spot it ;)
added on the 2004-08-12 00:54:35 by Nezbie Nezbie
1) Hi to all out there reading and writing

2) A lots of guys have bad reactions about my article called "save the scene" :

well sadly what I see on all these posts is what I have pointed the finger at on the article. That means certain sceners have the maturity of children and you know what, this can be extended to a big part of the society ! Yes a lot of guys out there are never happy whichever is done, they are all the time moaning and doing nothing to change things. They even go in justice doing like they do when they were at nursery school : "hey teacher this guy have hurted me, punish him and hit him hardly".

At least I have written an article which points the "problems" on the scene : lack of organisation, bad way to distribute stuff (anim is the way TV is spread over the world and as far as I know this works for severall years now and broadcast are more popular than computer demos, isn't it ? Anim don't contain viruses and can be viewed on a larger number of computer independently of the hardware). This is true or not ? Objectively this is true and there are allready old DOS demos availlable on DVD like I have seen on the skaven web site : this allow to show them without tons of emulators and tricks which are not easy to use.

I have also said that guys are boozing too much and that is true as photos show it and as a lot of guys will confirm it. I know the problem of alcohol very well : a friend of mine which was the most good guy on the earth have killed using a knife 2 guys on a village fête and believe it or not he was not really boozed just a little meaning alcohol is very dangerous. Perhaps on different cultures guys have so much difficulty to fight against the cold temperature that it's common to booze but as far as I know alcohol have so much disavantages on health that I really urge yourself to change your behaviour. Think what your children will became when you will became dead, blind, injured or disabled due to a car crash in boozed state ? What will they think, what will they do ? I know and this will not be really interesting objectively.

3) A lot of guys don't find my opinions about creations styles acceptable : I pointed here also something scientifically and objectively measurable, the demos are black, dark, this is a fact and usually all the background are made of #000000 pixels. And dark is for me (for you too, not ?) the color of death and death is not creativity, death if the end of all activity.

4) A guy have sent a troll on this post : what politic have in common with my opinions ? Here I open a parenthesis (You know what : I think like Emmanuel Kant that Democraty is enlighten despotism. Yes putting a sheet of paper on a box with a slot each 4, 5 or 7 years is a big joke. Where is my and your power on this system ? Buried under bureaucracy as far as I can say. And even if you said me that you vote for a program, I will answer you that at school a child have control to see if it learn well, but politics have no control about what they do to respect this program, or if they have they get some so special rights which gave them immunity which means we are not equal at the eyes of the law. Even if you say me I have the right to vote, I will answer you that this is the power of the number, the power of the force and this is not because a majority have choosen a direction which make them having reason. Albert Einstein when he discovered the theory or relativity was taken as a fool simply because only 10 or 30 guys on the world where able to understand him... Yes intelligence isn't well shared. I don't like this system.)

5) About the fact that what makes scene continuously productive is competition and bad mannered people like KB have said : so KB, I like very much your tunes but say me honestly "Is lizardking a fucking bastard musician ? Is Uncle Tom a big asshole ? And you are better than them I suppose ? You know better than them how to make certain things ? Music, perhaps ?" Well insults, and lack of respect lead to war and to non productivity, which make productivity is parallel work, work emulation, team spirit, friendship and self motivation, that's my point. I never seen a football team win anything by saying : Zinedine Zidane is a fucking lamer. This is perhaps what do Hooligans which are not : I'm not fighting for triviality. And competition : what a joke. How 100 guys can make each on his own a better thing than when working together ? Please give me a clue ? Competition is war, nothing else. And war make us loosing our time and energy whereas working together make us getting the results faster with less pain.

Finally I see that in fact I have said something near the truth as you are reacting because you have been touched by my words and ideas. Tradition (like real time) is in fact against progress and evolution as tradition let us lying on the past. I saw also that concerning black and bad design you are right with me as you don't like the Hugi 29 design :) So we have the same idea of what is beautifull and what is not. So stop moaning and etheir do something like writing an article, painting, coding, managing, raytracing, music compositing or watch, consume and shut up.

« dire la vérité est utile à celui à qui on la dit, mais désavantageux à ceux qui la disent, parce qu'ils se font haïr » (Pascal).

"Saying the truth is usefull to the one which receive it, but is unfavourable to those who said it, because they make themself hated" (Pascal = the discover of the theory of probabilities, first computer maker : pascaline a calculator for his father, Roy France banker).

Hope to hear from you soon.
rulez added on the 2004-08-12 06:02:05 by ep ep
Quote:
anim is the way TV is spread over the world and as far as I know this works for severall years now and broadcast are more popular than computer demos, isn't it.


wow...
what has tv in common with the demoscene?
are you stupid enough to think that your beloved mtv will start playing demos coz they can find them as avi on the net?
you "anim" theory is totally idiotic and against the main principles of the whole demo scene.
how will you explain that your 64k intro was really 64k if it was released as 100mb avi file?
and who will pay the transfer costs if every little downloads needs at least 80mb of transfer? i guess no one and scene.org will soon close down.
and what about the people who dont have a fast line like you have... they will soon leave the scene coz all the releases arent downloadable for them.

Quote:
that guys are boozing too much and that is true as photos show it


another one of your theorys.
which motif for a photo is far more interesting ... a puking bronix or someone typing at his keyboard?

partys are a place to meet, get drunk (for some ppl) and to show demos. and ususally its over after 3 days so taking some photos as example to build up such obscure theorys is idiotic.

Quote:
And dark is for me (for you too, not ?) the color of death and death is not creativity, death if the end of all activity


omg another theory...
well i can play this game as well: the roman empire -> death culture and as their culture died its just logical that their low level of art must be the reason for it.
im sure if you would keep writing such articles you will come up with similar stuff.

Quote:
Albert Einstein when he discovered the theory or relativity was taken as a fool simply because only 10 or 30 guys on the world where able to understand him.


another thesis?

bad people moaning about ep´s article = stupid people who dont understand einsteins theory.
-> therefore EP = Einstein

Quote:
Yes intelligence isn't well shared.


yeah regarding some unofficial hugi informations you and adok got 51% intelligence of the whole humanship so unfortunatly there isnt much left for us normal ppl to share...

Quote:
Finally I see that in fact I have said something near the truth as you are reacting because you have been touched by my words and ideas.


lol. yeah the ominous adok theory... if everyone is against you - you must be right.
dude get down from your throne.

----------------------------------------

well your whole article (and your posting here) clearly shows the real problem of the scene: to much arrogant nerds without a clue who just lurk around and dont get creative.
added on the 2004-08-12 08:10:20 by xeNusion xeNusion
ep,


just in case you didn't notice, the scene doesn't need to be saved. your article is simply redundant.


sincerly,
ronny
added on the 2004-08-12 09:37:26 by rp^frstl rp^frstl
Quote:
TRY TO BE FUNNY, TECHNICAL STULL ISN'T ENJOYED BY THE MASSES


I... cannot find the words to describe my feelings right now. Really.
sucks added on the 2004-08-12 09:45:31 by kurli kurli
ep, you're an idiot
added on the 2004-08-12 09:55:05 by okkie okkie
... I just realized that the article by EP is the opinion of a common man (a.k.a. idiot) who doesn't know anything about the demoscene, and the article describes very closely how to win the assembly democompo!

Everyone, lets make storydemos that are funny!

(i just wish i could thumb this down twice)
added on the 2004-08-12 09:55:09 by kurli kurli
ep, you suck. Show me your funny animations.

You ain't got none? well, stfu.

And for Hugi: the gfx are very low-level, and the articles from some guys are *really* on the edge of what I can take... did I mention the lousy gfx? Back in the days I used to like hugi...
added on the 2004-08-12 10:02:33 by aser aser
i have now seen into the heart of stupidity. EP is there.
sucks added on the 2004-08-12 10:29:30 by uncle-x uncle-x
save the scene, buy hugi
rulez added on the 2004-08-12 10:48:23 by dake^cdx dake^cdx
make hugi - not posts !
added on the 2004-08-12 10:51:33 by Someone Someone
i'd rather eat my own cock than write for hugi! i'd rather write for CHESE instead!
added on the 2004-08-12 10:53:10 by okkie okkie
hugi 28 was much better...
the scene is not dieing, it's just changeing!
more coder stuff next time please... too much stuff nobody wants too read.
sucks added on the 2004-08-12 11:14:10 by las las
First of all, I like the hugi interface, and I didn't read all the articles, so maybe there are some good ones in it.

But now about ep. He may write whatever he wants, in my opinion, that's a main idea of the scene. BUT: The article should start with the main editor comment "This is an article written by someone not in the Hugi staff, and doesn't at all reflect the opinions of the Hugi crew". Rather I read at the bottom "Now that's what I call an excellent article / Adok" or something like that. And just that makes Hugi #29 suck. I do not want to critizise ep. He doesn't know better, but thinks he is -who knows-. There are plenty of those guys out there. But the main editor of one of the better known diskmags? Adok, I once really loved Hugi. I did.

That I really didn't like the graphics doesn't make the stituation much worse.
sucks added on the 2004-08-12 11:33:46 by chock chock
hugi was great on the coding side so far - this issue lacks that. i'll wait for the next one.
added on the 2004-08-12 11:35:32 by Gargaj Gargaj
dear ep, you're an idiot.

Ok let's try to see this from objective side:

Your post shows exactly how much you know about demoscene. Demoscene's main idea, the thing the distincts it from other "multimedia art" subcultures, is that it's realtime, it's all about technical excellence. How can you demonstrate techincal excellence on a video or animation? You can't! And also you just got to face the fact that even if demos were made as animations, they still wouldn't attract masses any more than now, only other lunatics similar to demosceners and that's exactly how we want it to be and no one sees any of that as a problem. There is nothing to save in the scene.

Also demoscene is all about competition. Who can make something better than others and part of that competition is bragging about your own stuff. When someone does that it just gives you urge to try to make something better than them so that it can be your turn to brag about it. And that's how it's been since the very beginning.

It's a tradition. You point out in your post that traditions are against progress, but you must have noticed that everything and everyone has tradition. I bet even you have some tradition (in your family, or just your own) that you do. Traditions are, as mentioned earlier, a big part that makes demoscene what it is, an unique subculture that really has nothing alike anywhere else. Still despite strong traditions demoscene has progressed a lot during the years.

About your ideas about design. Apparently you haven't watched much demos if you think all the demos are dark and gloomy. There are plenty of other kind of demos too. You have to understand that other people have different taste than you and not everyone has to try to make you happy. Some people like dark and gloomy demos. Other people like fun happy-happy-joy-joy demos. And also something in the middle. People do what they like themselves, not what you or the masses like.

About "boozing". Demoparties are all about social interaction, having fun with friends. A party. It's nice to enjoy a few (or more ;) beers with good company, bbq some food and basically being outdoors. And alcohol also removes some social tension. It's just fun.

Saying that when we drink alcohol we will die in an alcohol related car accident is just plain stupid. Alcohol affects differently on each people. I think everyone knows the health-issues about alcohol and what it does to you, but at least I much rather just have fun than worry about every goddamn danger to my health in the world (because there's plenty, not just alcohol :p).

Wow. I never thought I'd write this much to pouet.
added on the 2004-08-12 11:49:14 by teel teel
And I forgot the most important:

You're all bunch of homos!
added on the 2004-08-12 11:53:19 by teel teel
your all a bunch of fuckers. i just wanna code demos (at home) and go to a party and show the world how wasted i can be. and i love it. that is the scene. end of discussion
added on the 2004-08-12 11:54:18 by quisten quisten
Ok, this long discussion made me read hugi again and check out the "demoscene - opinion" section. I carefully avoided it the first time, because I was already expecting a lot of bullshift. Truth turned out to be much worse.

EP - not even criticising your opinion, your articles are filled with factual errors and assumptions drawn out of your ass. Especially the article "The television..." makes me cringe.

Btw, what does the fact that you are friends with simpletons who murder under influence say about you?
sucks added on the 2004-08-12 12:22:17 by Stelthzje Stelthzje
nah.. who am I to judge, it was probably homicide. Sorry for mentioning that, it was annoppropiate.
added on the 2004-08-12 12:26:34 by Stelthzje Stelthzje
I absolutely adore when people with more or less no relation to the scene comes to enlighten us!

THANK YOU EP! YOU ARE MY HERO! I AM SO MUCH LOOKING FORWARD TO SEE YOUR WICKED CONTRIBUTION TO THE DEMOSCENE, SEEING HOW MUCH YOU KNOW ABOUT IT - THAT MUST MEAN YOU WILL BLAST US ALL AWAY WITH YOUR MEGADEMOS!
oh, btw. this and other diskmags sucks :)
sucks, cept for the interview with maestro monteverjnbidne3irndi or whatsoever cause he mentioned me!! \o/
sucks added on the 2004-08-12 13:09:17 by skrebbel skrebbel
I'd give EP's article a double thumb up, because it was damn funny. Here's a quick summary for those who can't be bothered:

Stop making demos, join the animation scene and make anims instead.

Stop making intros, join the shareware game scene and make shareware games instead.

Stop making 4k/256b etc. and join the screensaver scene, and make screensavers instead.

And that's the proposed strategy for SAVING the scene =D

The rest of hugi 29... well the gfx were alright, but not so good as they could be and not so good as they once were. Music was the same. Articles I've only looked very quickly at except the EP one which was great... but it looks not so great either. So thumb down.
sucks added on the 2004-08-12 13:25:16 by psonice psonice
In short: BRING BACK THE DESIGNER!

Designically (:-P) the mag sucks. The background is really coder-like (even i can do better - but i'll let for the artists work on that part) and the main page is "too big"! Earlier Hugis had the content separated in many pages and i prefer it this way.

The music, err, well. The first two tunes are Ok (especially the second), but well, they're not as good as they could be :-). This part needs an improvement.

Content. I really liked the aritcle about pouet.net, whatever others may said. Most articles, however, aren't very good in quality. I don't want to fingerspot anyone, but well, some should learn some more things about demoscene :->.

Overall. Comparing it with everything else available currently, it's an average-to-nice diskmag, but not leading anymore :-). Comparing it with older Hugis, i could say that it's one of the worst :-/.

I'll give it a thumbs down (while it doesn't suck - there are some nice articles to read there), but i expect a lot more from Hugi #30. Don't be in hurry to release it.
sucks added on the 2004-08-12 13:26:43 by BadSector BadSector
ah also there is a typo in the editorial: You write HUGI 28 - The Blue One instead of HUGI 29 :-).
added on the 2004-08-12 13:30:15 by BadSector BadSector
I wonder, ep... why do you have such an interest to 'save' the demoscene? go and create your own with your videos and your creativity :-)

Editorial quality kinda sucked for this issue... but I have not really paid that much attention to it, so I'll save my thumb [down] :-)
added on the 2004-08-12 13:32:23 by Jcl Jcl
nice try. bad layout, and you definitely tried way too hard to stomp up some provocative content. bashing people who are in fact 'superior' (to take your words right into the belonging context) to you won't get you anywhere.
sucks added on the 2004-08-12 14:07:17 by dalezr dalezr
nice, i get to thumb down both adok and ep in the same post!
sucks added on the 2004-08-12 14:17:30 by kusma kusma
btw, this one is for ep!
BB Image
added on the 2004-08-12 14:19:24 by kusma kusma
Weee. Just when you think that Hugi hardly could get any worse, a new issue comes out.

Let's face the reality:

- Hugis main editor isn't a scener.
- 95% of all article authors aren't sceners.

I don't recognize this as a scene diskmag (anymore). What is it doing on pouet?

Adok, take your sucky journalism skills and shove them up your ass. Or get back to writing QBasic tuts (http://www.antonis.de/tutor.htm)...

And whoever thinks diskmags still are a nice part of the scene (I do): Go write for pain. At least its done by sceners for sceners.
sucks added on the 2004-08-12 14:21:18 by scamp scamp
That doesnt change the fact that Pain SUCKS too you know.
added on the 2004-08-12 14:34:18 by superplek superplek
HAHAHAHA. These comments are the best proof that the scene is alive and kicking. May it kick hard and on the balls.
added on the 2004-08-12 15:15:46 by 216 216
Quote:
About the fact that what makes scene continuously productive is competition and bad mannered people like KB have said : so KB, I like very much your tunes but say me honestly "Is lizardking a fucking bastard musician ? Is Uncle Tom a big asshole ? And you are better than them I suppose ? You know better than them how to make certain things ? Music, perhaps ?" Well insults, and lack of respect lead to war and to non productivity, which make productivity is parallel work, work emulation, team spirit, friendship and self motivation, that's my point. I never seen a football team win anything by saying : Zinedine Zidane is a fucking lamer.


When did I say anything like that?
And since when is competition equal to flaming?
And why the f... am I really wasting my time with such idiocy?

I know it's bad style to turn people's metaphors against themselves, but honestly - If there was no competition, you would NEVER see any football team win, let alone play because there'd be nobody to play against, as everyone would be in your team - a team consisting of 100000 people because there was no selection taking place, for that would've been people better than others -> competition.

All men are created equal, but after this creation they are NOT. And well, those aware of this simple fact love to find out in which ways they're not equal. Those who are too weak to participate in this game, of course, start whining how unfair this all is and how everyone (read: they) would profit from embracing losers. Yeah, RIGHT.
added on the 2004-08-12 16:26:54 by kb_ kb_
As what i have heard the demoscene is dead, so there is no need to save it. I guess it died because of too many black backgrounds in demos...also known as the Black Death...which killed numerous of demosceners.
added on the 2004-08-12 16:52:06 by Zplex Zplex
This is the first diskmag I took a look at, and I think some articles are good.
The "deadlines kill the scene" article sounds somewhat silly to me, but "art vs. technology" is an important issue even though most newer demos seem to already be about art. The fictional and non-fictional stories are nice, and so is Optimus' text about himself as well as other parts.
And, yes, I think diskmags are outdated in a way that in a few years everyone will have a broadband flatrate, so they should atleast ALSO be avaiable as HTML online. That way they are more accessible and commenting becomes easier.
added on the 2004-08-12 17:30:18 by mjz mjz
I had to read EP's article. It's incredibly good, full of wise science and I understand the difference between a raytracer and 2D graphics now. Thank you, you can leave now.
added on the 2004-08-12 18:16:41 by dake^cdx dake^cdx
My head is hurting :(
sucks added on the 2004-08-12 18:42:36 by britelite britelite
stop this, just thumb down without comment and make something creative in that time...
added on the 2004-08-12 18:54:34 by las las
i miss the good old graphics and music. also more coding articles please! and charts... i would like to see which coders are on top these days.. please dont make this magazine online. i like to read articles from an executable.. maybe you should anyways because the interface is really crappy, yeah i dont like it anymore. it was much cooler 5-10 years ago... was it because of the atmosphere or was it because of the articles. well i think both.. ehrm, enough chittchat..
Quote:
And dark is for me (for you too, not ?) the color of death and death is not creativity, death if the end of all activity.


Philosopher-wannabe bullshit. That kind of crappy talk is allowed for ancient geniouses like Aristotele, but not for you. Modern philisophy is about solving problems, not producing them.

I thought i would not write in this topic anymore, but now noticed i lack some mental powers to do that.

I'm far from calling someone, even ep an idiot only since his foolish theories. Back in days i was the same, as i called myself 'revolutionist of demoscene' with a mission. Your major problem is lack of basic practial knowledge about demoscene. Not to be ungrounded and to but it briefly - your ideas may be good, but there's one thing you didn't notice - changing those things will make a scene like someone called 'just an another internet community', not a scene.

You may say - are the disadvantages priveleged only becouse they are the main 'source' of something? No, but just think another time. You noticed the theory or relativity - and you might use it now. Don't you think something you find bad would not be same ugly for others? Haven't you thought some of us like to be drunk and produce coded realtime productions, even though they recoil some troubles? No one forces you to stay with us, sceners. If you cannot accept the way we are just for your own interest leave us.

That's like making robot-dogs. They does not make such a problem like living ones, but without them we have no real fun of training them. Then ask yourself - why?

Then another think. Personally, i think that alcohol is not a good think but I accept some sceners to drink huge amounts of it, only owing to the fact I don't really care about them. If you hate something - just leave it. Drinking is not the main topic of the scene, no one would care about it if you were making great productions.

And yes - scene is about productions and the quality of them. Change the scene by _material_ things, not a crappy talk. If you want make wild demos only, just WHY THE HELL AREN'T YOU DOING THEM? Or i haven't heared about them at least...



added on the 2004-08-12 19:07:15 by meCh\bps meCh\bps
This is my last post, I have no time to fight and it doesn't worth the cost.

Let me sum up the "against or thumb up" posts on hugy 29 :

1) EP, Adok, Hugi 29 suck
2) EP you are a fucking bastard
3) I'm right because I have a big mouth and EP is bad

Well I think I was right for severall reasons :

1) I've said some (note some and not all this is important) sceners are bad
mannered. These posts show me I'm right : too less usefull comments, no
constructivism (eg : no new article for hugi 30, no new gfx, no new musics, no
new ideas, ...), and a lot of flames as it's so easy to flames others. Art is
difficult but cristicism is easy (Destouches).

2) I've said sceners have to change : these posts show me I'm right again. Yes,
there is no arguments, no demonstration of the fact that I'm wrong, no url with
good demos to download, no url about tools to build GFX, zik or code for free,
no link to code / gfx / zik tutorials, well nothing really interesting. In fact
there is nothing written which make the scene changing for better days. I've
said alcohol is a drug and I'm right because it's one as it produces an
habituation like tobaco does or like any other drugs morever it have bad effects
on health that was proved scientifically and Adok which is a doctor could show
you that by A + B with statistical reviews. In fact if you need alcohol to
integrate socially that means you are surrounded by people who have so much
fears they need to drink to be free enough to talk, strange behavior... I think
that if you need drink to be yourself that you have a little problem of
communication and you don't know how to manage your stress to avoid such method.
I think also that if you are stressed then you should find its causes and
eradicate them and this is more generally : when you have a problem, you should
find what are its causes to eradicate them instead of allways fix up them. This
is a more efficient way to live, well this is my opinion : stop using medecines,
instead find the causes of your pains and eradicates them, your body will say
thank you.

I've also said some sceners are bad mannered and all the insults I've seen here
and there show me that I'm true. Insults show me your weaks as you aren't enough
clever to show me I'm wrong using a reasoning, you simply put insults one after
other and this show me your lack of spirit and vocabulary.

I've also noticed a lot of sceners have problems when it comes to understanding
what is said in an article or on a post : flames about animations is for me a
perfect example. Yes, anims are big, anims are not real time, anims aren't 4Kb
sized and anims are not easily downloadable. Yes but I haven't said you must
release demos as anims and only as that. THERE WAS A SHADE and I think a lot of
you have a spirit which erase a lots of shades. I have said demos can be viewed
easily on a low powered config if they were released as anims and that's the
point : the main thing is demos can be viewed whereas your computer is fast or
slow when they are released as anims. You can release nintendo altered demos
and show them to your PC or MAC friend when they are released as anims. I
advocate to the video conversion phenomenon because it solves a lot of hasle
about drivers and give a lot of free time to coders. This is only a way to
DISTRIBUTE, demos will be shown realtime on the party. THIS IS AN IDEA NOT A
MANDATORY WAY BUT THIS CAN IMPROVE YOUR PROD POPULARITY. But PC owners can
download the prod as an exe as this is lighter for their internet access and
give currently better rendering results. Note also that with P2P the bandwith
limit of scene.org isn't a problem anymore : hay guys time to share something
with others. Yes share your not used bandwith with others, use P2P. I'm sure a
special P2P networks dedicated to demoscene is possible to build.

The fact that anims aren't realtime is another point. Well do you know that in
2006 video cards on the market will be able to make realtime raytracing ? What I
want to show with this is that hardware is changing all the times and when it
comes to watch an old prod on a brand computer comes a lot of problems and
finally the result isn't here as often 5 years or older prods seems not at all
great, but simply obsolete stuff. For archival purposes and scene preservation,
it could be great, this is an idea, to video convert stuff so guys in 20 years
will be able to show what you've done and this will be more than easy that to
emulate old hardware. This is my point, this is an argument.

But I have if I remember well allready give these arguments in the article and
on these posts I have seen everywhere one thing : you are hasty guys allways in
a race, in competition. You aim for the main thing but you are so fast that you'
ve lost almost everything and especially deep comprehension. You've seen 5
words : animations, remove black, bad mannered, ... What a wit !!! I've written
30 Kb, you've summed it up as 5 words ! Do you compress jpeg pictures with the
maximum ratios ? If yes, I understand that if your brain do the same as what
you do with pictures then it erases almost everything and especially what is
important. Life isn't bribes, live is a whole guys and life is build in
infinite shades like technologies and computers are.

Finally a word about traditions in general : traditions are everything but
progress for severall aspects.

First traditions impose rules (I haven't imposed anything, I have suggested and
you are free to accept or to reject but insulting, joking or in fact beeing
irrespectfull isn't acceptable) and rules in art are to be first known then
beeing oversteped. This is what is progress : finding better ways to do the
same things. Rules are necessary at the first stage to know how to do things
but once you mastered them, you can easily change them, improve them,
sophisticate them. But tradition is something which let us making things
without giving us a clear reason to do so : in France, perhaps on your country
too, there are traditions like drinking alcohol before eating and I don't
follow it as alcohol isn't necessary for me to get appetite, there is All
Saints' Day where we put flowers on dead guys grave. I don't follow it because
putting flowers on graves rounded by people isn't my cup of tea and it don't
bring back dead guys to life sadly. There is Chrismas which is a commercially
party created 50 years ago with a special guy called Santa Claus or Father
chrismas which (they at least tried to convince me of when I was young and not
so gullible child) came to my chimney on a flying sledge pulled by two or more
reindeers (which at least with father chrismas, sledge and all the presents
wheight more than 1200 pounds ! :) ) and I have forgotten he is so fast that
he can give me a visit of perhaps one hour long, and deliver presents to all the
children in the world in one night. What an exploit and we are searching the way
to reach mars. Hey Father chrismas, please give me a flying reindeer :) I stop
there to give you the conclusion : tradition is everything except intelligence
and the Church is slowly (too much slowly IMHO) dying from the fact it tells too
much damned things like JC was reincarned (only one guy from billions the last
2000 years, what a strange fact...), sun turns around the hearth whereas the
truth is the opposite (galileo scientist was judged by the Inquisition and have
been forced to abjure to avoid torture).

Second traditions is a way to manage guys easily : you said them, "it's like
that and we keep the tradition alive by following it" and you don't have to
demonstrate it, nor you don't let people think by themselves which is really
dangerous for political concerns. Well tradition is mechanical automation of
thinking, behaviour and actions. It' s totally aimed at no progress, come from
the past and is a symbol of stupidity.

This is my final word. If you have different ideas and especially constructive
ones or wanna share with me your own thinks, theories or philosophy about scene,
life and everything else then feel free to email me. Note that my email is
filtered and all kind of mails containing insults or archives are automatically
erased without my prior consent. So send only plain txt emails. Thanks you very
much.
added on the 2004-08-12 19:17:59 by ep ep
HUGI IS BEST DISKMAGAZINE, EP YOU ROCK!!!!! GREAT D00D!!!

I HAVE SUGGESTIONS:

1) FUCK YOU
2) TRY HEROIN INSTEAD PLZ
3) GO AWAY :D
added on the 2004-08-12 19:24:27 by uns3en_ uns3en_
demoscene is about a _realtime animations_ don't you get it? i give it up, talking to you is like speaking to the blind and deaf wall (sorry goes to all the walls i know)

constrictive criticism is included in most of our posts (forgetting about some 'you fuck' voices).

there are thousands of tutorials for coding, bilions of free tools for free code... and where's the clue? just bother to check google for blender,the gimp and devc++.
Quote:

The fact that anims aren't realtime is another point. Well do you know that in
2006 video cards on the market will be able to make realtime raytracing ? What I
want to show with this is that hardware is changing all the times and when it
comes to watch an old prod on a brand computer comes a lot of problems and
finally the result isn't here as often 5 years or older prods seems not at all
great, but simply obsolete stuff. For archival purposes and scene preservation,
it could be great, this is an idea, to video convert stuff so guys in 20 years
will be able to show what you've done and this will be more than easy that to
emulate old hardware. This is my point, this is an argument.


You contradict yourself. If in few years todays animations would be done in realtime, so why doing animations?

You will _always_ find someone with an old hardware or at least would be able to use emulator to do .avis of old demos. Anyway, the classic ones are actually stored in .avi files for archivization, so another time - wtf?
added on the 2004-08-12 19:30:01 by meCh\bps meCh\bps
eskimowhatever: if you don't have something useful to say, shut the fuck up. becouse of guys like you there are moaning voices about scene's death and clueless.
added on the 2004-08-12 19:32:50 by meCh\bps meCh\bps
EP: The mainproblem with your article as i see it is your following statement:

"For several years the scene has largely been producing quite lame productions, without any interest for the masses."

In my view the last 3-4 years the demoscene have produced some of the best productions ever seen.

Your statement is an insult to demosceners as i see it. And u are gonna give advice to them how to "save" the demoscene...to make it better? That too is an insult.
added on the 2004-08-12 19:46:32 by Zplex Zplex
EP! I DONT WANNA BE PART OF YOUR SCENE AND IT SEEMS I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE!! NOW LEAVE KTHX!
added on the 2004-08-12 19:57:29 by okkie okkie
ok.. lets try. even tho i'll be fighting against windmills here....

first.. two basic questions:

1) have you ever participated in a scene production?
1) Have you ever been to a demoparty?

"and a lot of flames as it's so easy to flames others. Art is difficult but cristicism is easy (Destouches)."

yes. now do please show us your art. I have never ever heard of you before and here you come claiming all this bullshit about the demoscene... please give us something that we might consider taking you seriously. If you can not deliver, we can do nothing but think of you as yet another troll..

"Insults show me your weaks as you aren't enough clever to show me I'm wrong using a reasoning, you simply put insults one after
other and this show me your lack of spirit and vocabulary."

And guess why most of us go for the insults? We do not care for yet-another-never-heard-of-besserwisser-coming-to-save-the-scene-from-god-knows- what. We have no patience for these things anymore since it has happened countless of times already.

"I've said sceners have to change : these posts show me I'm right again."

you reason like a jesuit. This is one of the reasons you also get flamed.

"Yes, there is no arguments, no demonstration of the fact that I'm wrong, no url with good demos to download"

why on earth should we tell you where to download / find demos? if you haven't noticed, you're posting on the biggest demo review site on the web for fucks sake.

on the front page of this very same site there are some stats (as of writing):

12840 prods
3608 groups
6720 users
114630 comments

there are also top 10 lists here, there is scene.org, there is monostep.... You should know this shit since you seem to be so clear about other aspects of the demoscene and wrote and article in a 'scene' diskmag.

"THERE WAS A SHADE and I think a lot of
you have a spirit which erase a lots of shades."

after this you go on an optimus-like romp of gibberish... please try to learn English if you want to communicate by using it....
added on the 2004-08-12 20:13:50 by uncle-x uncle-x
ep, have you found usenet already? I think you'd like it there.
added on the 2004-08-12 20:16:45 by 216 216
Most controversial magazine issue ever!

Is it art??
okay mech//bps i trolled but, you didnt
notice that i suggested ep that he should

1) fuck off:D
2) try heroin if he can't handle alcohol:D
3) go away:D

added on the 2004-08-12 20:26:30 by uns3en_ uns3en_
and shane: i suggest you do same what i
suggested ep to do. FUCK OFF FROM SCENE
YOU "FUNNY" TROLL
added on the 2004-08-12 20:28:21 by uns3en_ uns3en_
I have word for you, ep:

"polemics is easy, criticism is hard"

Proper criticism requires that you are involved and understand what you are talking about.
added on the 2004-08-12 20:38:41 by Stelthzje Stelthzje
i must say one thing:

"..bad mannered people like KB.."

you gotta be kidding.

added on the 2004-08-12 22:47:28 by fox fox
Eskimo: what have I done to you? I didn't attack you, but you attacked me. You were the aggressor!

Why, when people disagree, must it end in personal insults and hatred? Is conformity your idea of a perfect scene, a perfect world? Is uniqueness, choice and freedom a threat to you?
And could someone give me a brief summary of what has been said so far. I really can't be bothered reading all those long winded comments.
Summary:
Scene says: Last Hugi sucks, EP sucks even more...
Answer from EP: No I don't suck, you suck...
Answer from Scene: No, you're wrong, you suck.
Answer from EP: You prove my point, you all suck.

And now the trolls seem to start fighting eachother, maybe we ain't feeding them enough :-)
sucks added on the 2004-08-12 23:15:15 by sparcus sparcus
Unfortunately I didn't find much enjoyable in this issue.

The "save the scene" article by EP seems to me to have not understood the demoscene correctly. I find a large part of the enjoyment of a demo is being aware of the technical side of its creation. Otherwise we would all obviously just make pre-rendered animations. Without getting too silly, it seems to me the realtime restriction on demos can be likened to the "medium" of the art form, just like stone in sculpture or canvas in painting. Just because it is not observable _visually_ it doesn't mean it isn't an important part of demos. The problem is EP thinks watching a demo is all there is in experiencing a demo - the realtime nature, size and platform are also important factors.

Also I fail to see why it is necessary to make demos appeal to a wider audience. They already have an interested audience - sceners, who have never been so large in number (as far as I can tell).

Lastly personal attacks aren't very nice, right?
sucks added on the 2004-08-12 23:21:39 by pdx pdx
I've been part of the 'scene a very long time. And I've been observing even longer. Since as long as I can remember, there have always been "The Scene is Dead" debates, and I've even started some of them myself. Everyone has an opinion about it. And everyone will say it.

But no one has yet to figure out that the writer starts such a debate to disprove himself.

Think of it this way...if I'm going to write an article, I'm going to write it to an audience. If I want to know who read my article, I would say something that everyone would disagree with. I can't speak for EP, but I sure has hell have done that countless times in the past. And you have all responded (some childishly), and by doing so you have proven that the scene is in fact NOT DEAD!

Congratulations, you passed.
added on the 2004-08-13 03:00:13 by coplan coplan
Judging the length of EP's posts, I think we found a suitable replacement for Optimus.

In regards to diskmags, they were my only connection to the scene back in my A500 days. Everything I knew about the people behind demos came from diskmags. But nowadays, with the popularity of the internet, diskmags not only seem pointless, but also an oxymoron.
oh man, this thread is more interesting than the actual diskmag.

the authors are brilliant, the articles shows style and attitude - plus they are funny!

KEEP BRINGING CRAPPY HUGI'S SO WE CAN HAVE THESE DEBATES! :)
rulez added on the 2004-08-13 07:57:38 by rasmus/loonies rasmus/loonies
Hugi as always: Worse graphics, outdated tunes and mostly useless & uninteresting articles.
sucks added on the 2004-08-13 08:45:37 by ghandy ghandy
oh gosh, just tried to read some articles.

while most has been said before, I also tried to read one page of that "what women seem to want..."-rant and I have to say, that you are either totally frustrated, totally clueless, totally cliché-american, totally virgin or all of this.

Bottom-line (searching for the hot-key for this...): GET A LIFE AND GET LAID!
sucks added on the 2004-08-13 11:27:54 by Spin Spin
Quote:
So what to do? If you are lucky enough (or unlucky enough) to have a girlfriend it's safe to say you're in for a lifetime of misery. You can't hit them, it's against the law and you become a jerk. You can't make them happy since realistically you know your not a millionaire and god knows you probably aren't buff and built. ... What was the saying? I think I remember it now! "Women, can't live with them and you can't live without them!"


Great real-life satire!
added on the 2004-08-13 11:40:47 by Spin Spin
I think a combination of EP and lancaster could be a good replacement for optimus. We should try to keep them attached by replying to their arguments and not only bashing them.

ghandy: So, now you are bashing diskmags too?

added on the 2004-08-13 11:59:50 by Stelthzje Stelthzje
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST
That save-the-whale article makes me wanna shot someone. damn thats stupid. no no no no no no no retardom maximus. PURE BOLLOCKS ALL THE FUCKING WAY.

I like the idea about diskmags, and find it great that someone is writing them.. but DON'T MAKE EP WRITE ANYMORE. EVER
sucks added on the 2004-08-13 12:33:10 by cheesytbc cheesytbc
who cares?
sucks added on the 2004-08-13 14:39:28 by hfr hfr
everybody knows what is wrong with hugi how it can be better so support it for issue 30. Make love not war, especially in these olympic times!
added on the 2004-08-13 19:01:10 by magic magic
breaks my heart to see such a once great mag in this terrible shape... :/
added on the 2004-08-14 00:02:51 by zoom zoom
"Need to save some space on your HDs for the future Video-demos? Lets start deleting this" ;)
sucks added on the 2004-08-14 00:29:21 by alkama alkama
Guys, stop ranting and start writing.
Only YOU can make hugi as good as YOU want it ;)
rulez added on the 2004-08-14 02:40:13 by Nezbie Nezbie
i don't get certain people here, ranting about "oh come on, only you can make hugi better"... WHY THE FUCK SHOULD WE? and no, you can't tell _me _ that i don't care about diskmags or scene in general. but i support only projects that i consider sympathetic, and hugi doesnt belong to them.
added on the 2004-08-14 03:18:05 by dipswitch dipswitch
I second everyone saying that this "E.P." is definitely not a scener. Apart from the fact that he does not get the concept behind the demos(-cene) at all, he doesn´t even watch it closely: Otherwise he would have already found plenty examples of the "creative ideas" he´s proposing, some of them even these "that uninteresting 4k intros"!
Overall, the current issue did not match the quality I´ve expected, especially a good gfx theme for the articles is missing. But the article about the situation of an iraqian inhabitant alone was already enough to make this issue worth reading.
And those "scenish national anthems" were at least funny while reading them the first time - it´s nonsense, so don´t wonder if you cannot laugh while taking them seriously...
added on the 2004-08-15 23:45:20 by T$ T$
It was very fun using the mousewheel to add sfx to the music. I played with this for at least 5 minutes until I got bored!
Skarab:

Quote:
adok^hugi> yeah you're right. and what about adding K-Storm in the Hugi30 greetings please ?


Sorry! You're right that K-Storm deserves being greeted in Hugi. I've forgotten it. I'll include greetings for K-Storm in Hugi 30.
rulez added on the 2004-08-16 13:58:18 by Adok Adok
sucks added on the 2004-08-17 15:37:14 by prm prm
the latest editions of hugi more packed with irrelevant articles, uttermost crap when it comes to graphics (for a comparison, check out edition #16) and the tunes were horrid. i find it a bit bizarre that adok continues to publish and promote this crippled piece of diskmag.

but the ep's views about scene are at best, ridiculous.

what the hell is wrong with you?

releasing demos as animations/videoclips and viewing them in thier binary form only at demoparties? what do even seek by this "publicity tactic"? so that you could watch Relais on MTV or in some local youth program?

too bad you can't be moderated as a troll but instead of that, as a arrogant fuckface who gave his little finger to a demon called life and now he shows up to rant the demoscene since it's not the same what it used to be.

fuck your opinions, they're wrong anyway and you'll face endless amount of pain and torture and eventually you'll burn in hell.
sucks added on the 2004-08-18 00:09:44 by stonda stonda
Can't say I'm any better writer than EP or other no-good-scene-thing writers that seem to have an interesting point of view. It was weirdly "fun" stuff to read, though. Worst thing that can happen when you release something is that it's ignored.

Thumbs up for efforts on putting up the magazine and continuing doing so. Also, looking forward for some reaaally interesting articles ;)

PS. Preacher, you should release your demo making ABC now since EP has allready opened urgent need for an real article ;)
rulez added on the 2004-08-18 07:51:50 by Vulture Vulture
Stonda:
Watch your mouth! The next time you use so many four-letter-words in a single posting, I'll recommend seeing a psychiatrist.
added on the 2004-08-18 09:46:53 by Adok Adok
Vulture:
Thank you for your comments! As a matter of fact, Hugi 30 is going to feature at least one (cool!) article by Preacher indeed. =)
added on the 2004-08-18 09:48:15 by Adok Adok
very bad music, really terrible graphics and some comically lame articles. indeed, the unintentional comedy value was the main reason i bothered to give it the time i did.

a diskmag isn't worth supporting just for the sake of the fact it's a diskmag. a serious writer wouldn't want to put their work in this mag knowing it would be surrounded by this level of music and graphics, not to mention the other articles.

and no, i won't give this a thumb for the effort of continuing to release a mag, just as i wouldn't give a thumb for effort for someone making a really bad demo.

adok, if you want this mag to be anything like the level it used to be, employ some quality control (if you are already, i hate to see what you rejected). at least start with some half decent graphics and music.
sucks added on the 2004-08-18 10:37:36 by smash smash
instead of the four-letter-ones, i'll try to paraphrase my last chapter into more complex words, like mutilation, decapitation, bleeding inflammation, but mostly ep, i hope that in the next 10 seconds you feel a sensation of excruciating pain, in 15 seconds will cause arrested breathing and when 20 seconds have passed...brainfire.

well, now this went little off-topic, but who'll recognize the movie?
added on the 2004-08-19 00:01:58 by stonda stonda
smash:
Quote:
adok, if you want this mag to be anything like the level it used to be, employ some quality control (if you are already, i hate to see what you rejected). at least start with some half decent graphics and music.

I'd love to "start with some half decent graphics and music". So, please contribute some.

I can only use what I get from you people. I guess that by now, everybody knows that. So now it's time to act!
added on the 2004-08-19 00:21:25 by Adok Adok
adok, i think the problem is that hugi has sunk so low lately that no one really wants to support it :)
added on the 2004-08-19 01:35:15 by reed reed
Reed:
Quote:
adok, i think the problem is that hugi has sunk so low lately that no one really wants to support it :)

In that case, I'd feel morally obliged to persist making pressure on individual potential contributors until they submit some excellent pieces of gfx and music.

The problem is that I don't agree with your opinion on recent issues of Hugi: I like the graphics and music of Hugi 29 very much; don't forget that it's me who selected them. Regarding the contents, I'm not that interested in reading about scene-related stuff. I personally prefer the literature and real life sections.

By the way, Hugi isn't a demo scene magazine. It's just a mag that also contains articles about the demo scene, among many other topics. At the moment one could say that Hugi focuses on computer arts, but even that might change (although I don't think that it will do so in the near future).

For the future of Hugi, I wish that it will also gain more popularity outside the demo scene, and that we get more talented contributors from outside of the demo scene so that we will no longer be "dependent" on the demo scene. This is the prime reason why there has been the idea of transforming Hugi to an online magazine. After all, people who don't download .exe files regularly like demo watchers and the like might feel a bit uncomfortable when they have to download and start an .exe file just in order to read a mag.

Everybody please feel free to tell their non-scene friends about Hugi, and also feel encouraged to post about Hugi, including a link to our website www.hugi.de, to discussion boards, portal sites etc. of other communities! Thank you very much in advance for your support.
added on the 2004-08-19 10:48:02 by Adok Adok
Quote:

The problem is that I don't agree with your opinion on recent issues of Hugi: I like the graphics and music of Hugi 29 very much; don't forget that it's me who selected them.

that only shows your bad taste but not any quality sign at all.

Quote:

Regarding the contents, I'm not that interested in reading about scene-related stuff.

then stop pretending about hugi being a scene diskmag already... why you add it pouet then? why there is demoscene content there at all then?
added on the 2004-08-19 11:14:08 by dipswitch dipswitch
i get the feeling adok has been kidnapped by aliens, tortured, brainwashed, or more likely, replaced by a cheap clone o_O
added on the 2004-08-19 11:19:50 by zoom zoom
Anything that makes Cheesy explode in disgust *must* be *really* bad.

Anyway, aren't most of the articles a parody of crap diskmags?

added on the 2004-08-19 11:34:08 by Shifter Shifter
adok: wouldn't it help if you had talented sceners as your friends? perhaps that way you could persuade them to contribute with music or graphics. have you ever asked anyone directly? not just a "please contribute with graphics and music"-note in your mag.
... was für 'ne Wurst ...
sucks added on the 2004-08-19 12:30:20 by nufan nufan
i think that stating publicaly for like 4? years now that hugi doesnt really care about demoscene makes talented sceners abit unwilling to volunteer for "proper" graphics/music..
added on the 2004-08-19 12:41:54 by psenough psenough
Dipswitch:
Quote:
"Quote: 'Regarding the contents, I'm not that interested in reading about scene-related stuff.'
then stop pretending about hugi being a scene diskmag already... why you add it pouet then? why there is demoscene content there at all then?"

You poor fellow. At least you ought to learn reading...
added on the 2004-08-19 12:43:37 by Adok Adok
Rasmus:
Quote:
"adok: wouldn't it help if you had talented sceners as your friends? perhaps that way you could persuade them to contribute with music or graphics. have you ever asked anyone directly? not just a "please contribute with graphics and music"-note in your mag. "

Of course I've asked people directly - many times. And many times, this is what has led them to create and contribute graphics and music to Hugi.

The graphics and music I get will stored in a pool and will be used sooner or later.

I have often asked myself why so many graphicians and musicians apparently aren't interested in promoting themselves by seeing their work and name in Hugi. For me it would be easy to take photos and classical, i.e. non-copyrighted music (or no music at all!) instead. Then I would have no problem with critics who on the one hand say it "rocks" and on the other say it "sucks".

Have you already asked yourself why you don't promote yourself? Are you afraid of being criticised just like everybody else?
added on the 2004-08-19 12:44:16 by Adok Adok
I repeat what I've already written in another thread:

Whenever you are in public, you'll be exposed to criticism. There are two types of criticism: constructive (rational) and non-constructive (irrational) one.

Constructive criticism can be dealt with rationally. It may lead to discussion in which arguments meet counter-arguments.

Irrational criticism consists mostly of four-letter-words. There are two options to face it: Either you get dragged into discussions with such people - then you need a "thick skin" because they won't react on rational arguments. Or you simply ignore these people. It's like banning people on IRC.
added on the 2004-08-19 12:45:10 by Adok Adok
ps:
Quote:
"i think that stating publicaly for like 4? years now that hugi doesnt really care about demoscene makes talented sceners abit unwilling to volunteer for "proper" graphics/music.."

You may be right, but don't forget that we've had these problems right from the beginning.

Some years ago, I wrote an article called "Philosophy of Hugi". It's still available at www.hugi.de and it has applied to my attitude to Hugi throughout all the years. In it, I write that Hugi is a "platform for young people where they can present their ideas". "The reason" why we focus on the demo scene "is that in demos, people use these new technologies to express creative ideas in an artistic form. Also, you can immediately create a program, draw a picture or enter some music notes and see the result. This allows a lot of experimenting and is not so lavish as (for example) experimenting with chemistry."

So this attitude was clear right from the beginning.

I want to tell you something essential about the demo scene; it's my opinion.

The demo scene started with young people fascinated by computers, computer games, graphics effects and so-called music (at the beginning, the term "sound" may have been more appropriate for it). In order to produce such effects etc. themselves, they deeply dealt with technology and were euphoric that it was possible to create things nobody would have considered possible. This led to people dealing more and more with hardware and software - they wanted to explore it to the limits. That's why things like 4k intro compos were founded. In this way the demo scene was formed.

But the demo scene ought not to be an end to itself. I don't want people to remain only demo sceners from age 6 to 99. The essential thing is that the skills people have gained in the demo scene will be valuable in many areas of "real life". Any occupation requires good skills at new technology. That's why a diskmag also ought to get people fascinated who aren't that deeply interested in new technology yet.

That's the message Hugi is to deliver. If we only remained in the scene, we would be just a part of a cult and have no message.

The needs of the scene are already well served by pouet, ojuice, scene.org etc. - there's no need for Hugi.

That's why we want Hugi also to be popular outside the scene in order to get new people interested in the new technologies. At the same time, the productions of the demo scene would also get a larger audience. And we might even get "fresh blood".

I don't know if I've managed to express my ideas clearly, but we can discuss them.
added on the 2004-08-19 12:56:37 by Adok Adok
Quote:
The needs of the scene are already well served by pouet, ojuice, scene.org etc. - there's no need for Hugi.


Bravo!
added on the 2004-08-19 13:12:24 by Shifter Shifter
shifter:
am I that readable ? :)
added on the 2004-08-19 13:46:52 by cheesytbc cheesytbc
"For the future of Hugi, I wish that it will also gain more popularity outside the demo..."

ehm ok. lets face it. with the last 3-4 issues hugi sceners lost interest in the mag. and the actual content of the new issues doesnt look like its of any interest for others because its still lots of scene-related stuff. beside that the way the mag represesnts itself lately isnt in any way flavoursome due to bad graphics....etc etc. so i think people outside the scene wont sit in front of the computers to read stuff you can read next to everywhere. if you want them, the non demosceners or demosceners, to do that the content should be high quality so the wont mind the bad representation. another solution would be to make the representation better(betetr gfx,music...) and stick to bad texts. imho if the content still would be great and just the representation of the mag was bad then none would mind. a mag that has a bad representation but good content is something else. but if both parts are low quality we should let it go. at least i will not tell anyone of my friends about it now because the quality is that bad. i used to show older issues to friends because the have been quite informative in some cases and especially the code area was sometimes very usefull. signing off...
added on the 2004-08-19 13:57:12 by trigger trigger
adok: i think its easier to outreach people with demoshows, lectures, culture reflective essays and books like the katastro.fi release then by printing a diskmag with handfull of misc content that doesnt really appeal to any specific target audience and somewhat imho badly reflects the true spirit of its supposed origin (the demoscene/diskmag scene).

ppl dont google for diskmags when they are trying to find misc bits of code, pseudo-political articles or even new artists literature..

if your aim is to impress newbies i think having articles about the scene underground would get more new tech kids interested in the mag itself then the random grab of articles that you seem to be doing.

i would rethink, redefine and aim to please your (new non scene?) target audience if i was you... general revamp and outreach into other areas of interest like music or movie or whatever. but imho all of them would be less interesting then the demoscene (and related scenes) state of the art and past history.
music, movie, literature, political issues and scienceiiish essays need editors who truly understand, dominate and are prolific in exposing their points of view on the subject to a willing to listen audience in order to work.

and hugi has no such imho.
and with such lack of design/layout appeal i truly dont see why anyone of such intelectual level (which usually implies beeing someone with tremendous lack of freetime) to want to contribute.

dont get me wrong, mags created by amateurs can be fun and cute to read. am not calling all of hugis writers/editors complete newbies either. but i think most of you/them can agree with me that they arent the masters of their fields. (or so i would hope to believe, for their sake...)

i admire your preseverance on editing hugi claus but if you truly care to make it usefull to anyone besides your own (and a couple few other) egos, you really need to rethink your strategy, specially regarding your target audience.

thats my opinion. please dont take it as a flame, ive said it quite a few times before, im not looking for any more flamewars with you or hugi, had enough of that back in 99,00 or whenever it was..
added on the 2004-08-19 15:05:04 by psenough psenough
damn adok! no more edito about how the US are right to dictate democracy through illegitimate invasion, innocent blood, jail torture, religious profanation, oil capture, political puppets and dollar rain ?! no more news about the überleet Austrian medical scene ?! no more acute reports about the warez scene ?

damn i'm so disappointed. Hugi #29 sux.
sucks added on the 2004-08-19 21:52:38 by Zest Zest
to be honest i enjoyed diamondie's articles, the "infocus" articles, the music/demo reviews and even the start-up gfx :)
added on the 2004-08-19 22:08:11 by Zest Zest
Watching a beer, having a TV, True true true !
rulez added on the 2004-08-20 09:14:17 by u2 u2
Hugi once was nice, but that issue for real wasn't what I think a diskmag should be. The backgrounds looked strange, the ending picture was a real picture, the music changed to quick (and in style). The articles weren't that good too.(discussed here before) Maybe an online-issue would be better.

So there's only pain left ..?
sucks added on the 2004-08-24 12:34:48 by rntm rntm
sucks added on the 2004-08-24 13:29:29 by violator violator
ok, this hugi was the singlemost pathetic attempt of doing a diskmag ever! graphics sucked, music sucked, articles were like 90% non-scene ones or either dumb shit nobody cares about... so all in all i think adok is totally losing it. scaring most people off with his immature behavior or as he calls it 'superiority'. i wonder where this will end!
sucks added on the 2004-08-24 13:44:34 by Bruno Valero Bruno Valero
Awful, awful graphics...and one of the composers seems to be tonedeaf...this issue also has some of the worst articles I've ever had the misfortune of reading, from people who clearly don't understand what they are writing about (be it demos, the scene, or women). Finally, what's the point of that annoying sfx when you scroll the text?
sucks added on the 2004-08-24 16:26:38 by mermaid mermaid
Hugi rules ... as always ... Quality quality .... Waiting for issue 30 :)
rulez added on the 2004-08-26 10:21:29 by DarkinDesign DarkinDesign
Hugi rules ... as always ... Quality quality .... Waiting for issue 30 :)

..and indeed. if this is considered to be great improvement or something outstanding, i'm a prudish bitch and say noeh

sucks added on the 2004-08-26 10:55:59 by raver raver
.
sucks added on the 2004-08-26 21:21:37 by meCh\bps meCh\bps
"Besides, I also realized that people like reading articles which present opinions similar to their own ones very much. On the other hand, if an article is provocative enough, it often results in an outburst of response articles, which is not bad for the diskmag either, is it? After all, the editor has reached what he wanted, namely to get interesting articles for his mag." Adok/Hugi in http://www.diskmag.de/articles/artoftopics.htm

Trying to live after your own words but you see the times they are a-changin' (and you aren't lord helmet).
added on the 2004-08-26 21:47:13 by hitchhikr hitchhikr
Rather write new article for issue 30 than spending time writing here! :D
added on the 2004-08-26 21:56:10 by magic magic
if there'll ever be a 30th issue :D
Of course there will be a 30th issue! There are already some first articles. And there are some excellent ones among them!

We also plan some great innovations...

I'm looking forward to more of your articles!
added on the 2004-08-26 22:40:21 by Adok Adok
Quote:
ugly aliasing

To anybody who is of the opinion that Hugi doesn't support antialiasing: It does, but it depends on the Windows configuration. When you go to Control Panel -> Display -> View -> Effects -> Methods of displaying fonts, select ClearType. Hugi will be displayed with anti-aliased fonts both in windowed and in full-screen mode.

kb wrote:
Quote:
the font renderer screws up the antialiasing (Cleartype doesn't look TOO good in 640x480),

IMHO, ClearType looks good even in 640x480. Maybe it's a matter of taste.

I didn't even know about ClearType until today!
added on the 2004-09-05 08:16:46 by Adok Adok
Hugi is out to kill the scene. How else could you explain that every second issue has some "scene is dead" articles in it? I just browsed through the ones of the last 3 years. I'm shocked. They are burying us alive!

And who wrote them? What did this person do to save the scene? Why does he just write and all the others have to obey? And it's so boring trivial or plain stupid... every word of it. The "problem" of scenegirls is blown out of proportion and put the other way around.

I don't blame the authors. I blame the chief editor. He decides what gets in and what not, so he at least in part agrees to the opinions of the articles. He allows for so bad, unjustified journalism to slip in, that it is no wonder he loses the mag - both the contributors and the readership. And his own contributions are of the same quality.

I'm with dipswitch and kb.
sucks added on the 2004-09-05 13:51:04 by eye eye
eye/PaC:
Your comment is interesting. Perhaps it may really be a good idea to see to it that only articles with a positive, enthusiastic point of view are published (especially as the scene is actually far from being 'dead' indeed).
added on the 2004-09-06 12:13:16 by Adok Adok

muhahahahaha - EP's post is so damn funny:D this guy is jesus of the demoscene, no doubt!

added on the 2004-09-06 13:51:23 by raver raver
Have you already written and send in your article contributions to Adok for issue 30 ?
Lets make it together for the scene!
added on the 2004-09-12 17:05:55 by magic magic
but my articles deserve a better mag! :P
More than 200 comments already! (This is the 201st comment!) Very cool!
added on the 2004-09-13 13:40:20 by Adok Adok
Maali: Articles make the mag!
Stop wining support or die!
Any mag without support isnt as good as the same mag WITH support.
added on the 2004-09-13 18:50:58 by magic magic
Some mags don't deserve support. Hugi is one of them.
added on the 2004-09-13 19:06:32 by _-_-__ _-_-__
word.
added on the 2004-09-13 20:21:54 by dipswitch dipswitch
I want video!
politicising the scene is absolute bullshit.

ep:
demos are for fun and competition. this includes kind of a "i-rule-and-you-are-lame"-attitude, boozing at parties and all the other "bad" things mentioned. taking actions to force any changes made a totally different thing out of it and makes no sense. if you have such big problems with it, i wonder how you ever could get interested by the scene.

make more black demos :)
sucks added on the 2004-10-02 15:33:04 by gg|rhg gg|rhg
knos <3 :))
I laughed my ass of while reading "How to save the demo scene"-article. One of the best joke articles I've ever seen...
added on the 2004-11-14 13:46:49 by sauli sauli
For Chrismas see :

http://www.wopah.com/show.php?which=203&lang=en

Have good fun !

For me against the "bad attitude sceners" :

See http://www.flashmeat.com/flash/flash.php?ID=114

I'm in black ! :)
DipSwitch is the boss, wait some time to see him !

Who win at last ?
Me !
Of course !
added on the 2005-01-20 18:46:17 by ep ep
there's an Optimus rant in there with approximately one million lines. save this thing to your HD and keep it, it's going to be worth a lot one day when historians dissect the demo scene's state at the dawn of the millenium.

heh, and ep's arguments as to why 4ks are useless are just great. this guy officially has No Fucking Clue (TM).
added on the 2005-01-26 01:41:33 by jazzman jazzman
rulez added on the 2005-01-29 21:29:04 by Optimus Optimus
i think EP should stick to 'how to save Hugi' articles, Adok wont get the point tho :(
sucks added on the 2005-02-15 16:43:09 by apricot apricot
At least the blue background though completely dull is still better than the interface of HUGI 30
sucks added on the 2005-02-15 16:56:13 by p01 p01
sucks added on the 2005-06-01 21:26:04 by auge auge
BB Image
hitchhikr t'es un gros connard!
Go hand in hand with your friend Dipswitch and Unlock: you've the same level (LOW).
added on the 2005-10-02 00:12:21 by ep ep
sucks added on the 2006-03-13 15:38:53 by wie8 wie8
This thread is worth another Hugi article :)
added on the 2008-03-09 19:44:59 by chromag chromag
Actually it isn't really a thread :D
added on the 2008-03-09 19:45:35 by chromag chromag
.
sucks added on the 2008-11-04 18:31:34 by nosfe nosfe
hugi sucks :(
sucks added on the 2008-11-06 01:35:46 by Queen_Luna Queen_Luna
.
sucks added on the 2009-02-13 13:46:07 by Sir Sir

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