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Shaggy by DuskWave
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added on the 2022-08-28 20:34:46 by hitchhikr  |
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comments
Quite high end Amos demo. The polygon-movie effects are cool. I got out of memory error even in my 64MB FS-UAE config though after Sierpinski.
rulez added on the 2022-08-29 03:25:39 by rloaderro 
Very nice for a Amos Demo.
Nice flow but as you wrote, it's slow on 040. And for me demo stops after Miner, no scroll but music is still playing.
amos
Yes, madame Curie discovered the shaggybobs and that blow Einstein's mind but that 3D engine is buggy as hell and these effects could be done on vanilla A1200... maybe even A500?
I like it anyway. Nice music and pace. Not bad for AMOS, I guess.
Keep up the good work and fix at least the polygon sorting. Dammit.
I like it anyway. Nice music and pace. Not bad for AMOS, I guess.
Keep up the good work and fix at least the polygon sorting. Dammit.
sweet and so love that tune
omg yes, lit music, effects, has a great feel and uplifting energy for me.
The Black Lotus/Spaceballs replay effects prepared before. That's even more devious, not just slow + require acceleration + downgrade AGA... there was 1 or 2 like that before, can't recall the demo names. And of course on PC/DOS also.
Here if you have ECS+2MB+8MB+HDD you can run it (did not run to the end). I estimate the blackscreens in between parts to take a few minutes each. Estimated runtime 45 mins or more on this ECS Amiga platform that could (sort of) be associated with oldskool, although we appreciate working within limits in the Demoscene (or so I keep hearing).
To run at VIDEO speed on ECS, I estimate an additional 040 or sketchy 060 (or perhaps fantasy platform). I dearly hope it was run on a real ECS Amiga at the party - because that means there are still a handful in the world working! <3
I don't think you ran this demo on an ECS Amiga to record the video.
Here's the thing: if you then leave the limits we appreciate and release a demo, much more is expected than BASIC/C can deliver, and it's not just here. The demo is not performant - not even close to performant.
Music is fine, and I'm sure you didn't replay it with BASIC or C even on accelerated ECS. ;)
And I'm sure my comment will drown in all the upvotes from just watching the video, (many) sceners can't spend the extra 20 seconds running the demo anymore. :'( That's what's really bad, not your release. Anyone who cares can run your demo on their ECS(+8MB+HDD) Amiga.
Here if you have ECS+2MB+8MB+HDD you can run it (did not run to the end). I estimate the blackscreens in between parts to take a few minutes each. Estimated runtime 45 mins or more on this ECS Amiga platform that could (sort of) be associated with oldskool, although we appreciate working within limits in the Demoscene (or so I keep hearing).
To run at VIDEO speed on ECS, I estimate an additional 040 or sketchy 060 (or perhaps fantasy platform). I dearly hope it was run on a real ECS Amiga at the party - because that means there are still a handful in the world working! <3
I don't think you ran this demo on an ECS Amiga to record the video.
Here's the thing: if you then leave the limits we appreciate and release a demo, much more is expected than BASIC/C can deliver, and it's not just here. The demo is not performant - not even close to performant.
Music is fine, and I'm sure you didn't replay it with BASIC or C even on accelerated ECS. ;)
And I'm sure my comment will drown in all the upvotes from just watching the video, (many) sceners can't spend the extra 20 seconds running the demo anymore. :'( That's what's really bad, not your release. Anyone who cares can run your demo on their ECS(+8MB+HDD) Amiga.
Okay looks not bad and music is good. But I want to be honest. I really don't like this development, that Amiga demos are called "oldschool" and also look like that, but then have forever high system-requirements. We've seen that a lot with Amiga games in recent years, and now it's starting with demos too. Why not call such a demo "for highend Amigas" then, instead of "oldschool", only because it uses some chips too, that Amiga500 machines use? Then, at least, users won't be disappointed, if it doesn't run on their Amiga-500 with 512kb chipram plus 512kb fastram?
given that this is submitted as OCS/ECS prod, for the reference, here is the quick capture of this demo "running" on ECS machine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dyoXqGYIes
(spoiler alert, there is 10x more blank screen than actually something happening)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dyoXqGYIes
(spoiler alert, there is 10x more blank screen than actually something happening)
I like the music and vector animations, but for the requirements for the machine power, was a bit disappointment, overall mood was entertaining.
I am pretty much in line with Photon and bonefish, waiting for a final release.
Unacceptable.
Unfortunately i get an "Out of memory" on my 1200 Blizzard1260 64MB soon after start.
Thank you for all your nice words, upvotes, and constructive criticism.
The demo is working fine on physical Amiga 1200 with 68040 using SetPatch v43.6 and 68040.library v43.1 -
https://youtu.be/NTgpzP51hJk
This is recording from my own setup acquired in legacy times. The only modern modification is CompactFlash storage replacing the noisy and energy-hungry HDD.
If you want to download the versions mentioned above I have included them in the archive at http://rubinkowo.net/permalink/demo_shaggy.zip. They don't seem to be easily available anymore.
A sidenote: ECS is a designation of chipset ONLY, not whole computer. When a demo requires ECS it just means it doesn't need AGA (and needs something better than OCS), and not that it will run in 1 frame on 68000... Sure you could say "ECS machine" alone and that would be understood, but if "ECS" is followed by a CPU requirement you can't just get plain A600 with mem expansion and complain on performance (nice to know it runs at all, though). Anyway I've modified the requirements in the nfo and in the archive so nobody will try to be picky anymore.
As for the "oldschool" development, are you sure that the only oldschool is plain Amiga 500? And Amiga 4000 or any other equipped with a turbo board (especially legacy ones) aren't oldschool anymore? So they should compete with modern PCs running tens of thousands of CUDA cores, hundreds of gigabytes of memory and so on? ... no. All Commodore's Amigas, even with turbos, are definitely oldschool, and so are the productions for them.
Of course you could hold multiple Amiga demo compos: unmodified / legacy high-end / PPC / FPGA / whatever, but if a whole "oldschool demo" competition sports 4 productions total - 2 for Amiga, 1 for Commodore 64 and 1 for Atari Jaguar - how uninteresting the competition would be if split to 3-4 parts?
As for the music - of course it was replayed with BASIC... specifically AMOS extension AMCAF's ProTracker replay routine as this music is - yes - in ProTracker format. No WAV/MP3/whatever, where would you want to stick it in? The demo compressed/uncompressed is 1.7/2.5 MB in size. The module itself is 570 kB in size. Even the emulator capture is capturing real demo running both video and audio, and it doesn't add any external music.
Sure, I would love to create productions that run higher-end effects on plain 68000 machines. But that requires a lot of skill which I'm only in the process of acquiring. So far I create in the way I'm able to. You can like the technicals or not, you can also like (or not) the style, story, design, music, idea - your free choice. The question is what is most important in the demo, the things it wants to pass to viewers or only the way it's written? Actually the demo has been successfully ran on a physical Amiga on the party (as this is the requirement on Xenium parties thorough the ages) and it was approved by the audience. It's a pity that someone expresses his dislike not seeing the demo at all (or at least so says his comment, not referring to the content, just the technical difficulty)
Given all of the above, user bonefish is kindly asked to take his unsuccessful 68000 (and 68040 with improper config) recordings of the demo off the YouTube not to mislead potential viewers. What's the reason to do such things anyway? To discredit a creator? make fun of him? At least you could leave comments enabled where I could explain things and have a discussion on issues. Demoscene is friendship not malevolence, isn't it?
The demo is working fine on physical Amiga 1200 with 68040 using SetPatch v43.6 and 68040.library v43.1 -
https://youtu.be/NTgpzP51hJk
This is recording from my own setup acquired in legacy times. The only modern modification is CompactFlash storage replacing the noisy and energy-hungry HDD.
If you want to download the versions mentioned above I have included them in the archive at http://rubinkowo.net/permalink/demo_shaggy.zip. They don't seem to be easily available anymore.
A sidenote: ECS is a designation of chipset ONLY, not whole computer. When a demo requires ECS it just means it doesn't need AGA (and needs something better than OCS), and not that it will run in 1 frame on 68000... Sure you could say "ECS machine" alone and that would be understood, but if "ECS" is followed by a CPU requirement you can't just get plain A600 with mem expansion and complain on performance (nice to know it runs at all, though). Anyway I've modified the requirements in the nfo and in the archive so nobody will try to be picky anymore.
As for the "oldschool" development, are you sure that the only oldschool is plain Amiga 500? And Amiga 4000 or any other equipped with a turbo board (especially legacy ones) aren't oldschool anymore? So they should compete with modern PCs running tens of thousands of CUDA cores, hundreds of gigabytes of memory and so on? ... no. All Commodore's Amigas, even with turbos, are definitely oldschool, and so are the productions for them.
Of course you could hold multiple Amiga demo compos: unmodified / legacy high-end / PPC / FPGA / whatever, but if a whole "oldschool demo" competition sports 4 productions total - 2 for Amiga, 1 for Commodore 64 and 1 for Atari Jaguar - how uninteresting the competition would be if split to 3-4 parts?
As for the music - of course it was replayed with BASIC... specifically AMOS extension AMCAF's ProTracker replay routine as this music is - yes - in ProTracker format. No WAV/MP3/whatever, where would you want to stick it in? The demo compressed/uncompressed is 1.7/2.5 MB in size. The module itself is 570 kB in size. Even the emulator capture is capturing real demo running both video and audio, and it doesn't add any external music.
Sure, I would love to create productions that run higher-end effects on plain 68000 machines. But that requires a lot of skill which I'm only in the process of acquiring. So far I create in the way I'm able to. You can like the technicals or not, you can also like (or not) the style, story, design, music, idea - your free choice. The question is what is most important in the demo, the things it wants to pass to viewers or only the way it's written? Actually the demo has been successfully ran on a physical Amiga on the party (as this is the requirement on Xenium parties thorough the ages) and it was approved by the audience. It's a pity that someone expresses his dislike not seeing the demo at all (or at least so says his comment, not referring to the content, just the technical difficulty)
Given all of the above, user bonefish is kindly asked to take his unsuccessful 68000 (and 68040 with improper config) recordings of the demo off the YouTube not to mislead potential viewers. What's the reason to do such things anyway? To discredit a creator? make fun of him? At least you could leave comments enabled where I could explain things and have a discussion on issues. Demoscene is friendship not malevolence, isn't it?
Got me surprised, I saw the ECS/OCS and thought it was for lowend Amigas, and the polygonization was pretty neat (even if it might be animation but regardless). But then I read it's 68040, so piggie.
I'll try that later on my 68030 accelerated anyway and hope for the best, I have no fancy 40 or 60. I get the point OCS/ECS is the chipset (maybe we need a better designation on Pouet but it's too late).
Domel, when I start the demo on an A3000/60 I get some polygons and "solving Euler-Riemann Zeta function", and then -wham- an instant reboot. In another attempt I get "Out of memory" - I have 80mb in the machine. When I disable caches, it will run with very slow effects and long black screen pauses between parts, and only for about half of its runtime, then the screen remains black. This is with about the only machine that the demo is destined for running! It pities me for the nice music and glimpses of nice presentation. Youdork indicates a super slick and smooth production, and oooh, it's even OCS! And therein lies the problem.
I suggest to label it with Wild, AGA and OCS tags, to make clear it targets some very unusual specification. Of course it's a "valid" demo - after you've fixed the many bugs. :-)
I suggest to label it with Wild, AGA and OCS tags, to make clear it targets some very unusual specification. Of course it's a "valid" demo - after you've fixed the many bugs. :-)
I can get it to work on A3000/60 when running _before_ Setpatch. I find general idea, artistry and presentation of this demo very good, enjoyable. The framerate was far detached from what you might expect from the video, even the end scroller was jerky.
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As for the "oldschool" development, are you sure that the only oldschool is plain Amiga 500?
Yes, that's it.
Quote:
And Amiga 4000 or any other equipped with a turbo board (especially legacy ones) aren't oldschool anymore?
Exactly.
And, I might be wrong, these questions have some note of arrogance.
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Demoscene is friendship not malevolence, isn't it?
This is a question that you will never have a definitive answer. Cause the scene had it all.
For ex. Asm68k was the only language the scene was accepting. Other languages were not, let's say delicately, "appreciated". Funny, is not it ;).
We may say as well a little bit differently:
Good productions, properly working (and etc, etc) had and I think will still have more friendly remarks (not here in pouet, but in general) then those prod's which have some performance lacks, which may look unfinished, or are not not working on the different configurations (etc, etc).
You got my point... I hope.
I understand you sweated and put a lot of work in it. No one is doubting about it, here. But Amiga has its rules. You want it or not...
Quote:
Quote:Yes, that's it.As for the "oldschool" development, are you sure that the only oldschool is plain Amiga 500?
IMO it's been that way back in the nineties, when the accelerator boards were so hype, also the PPC. But quarter of a century has passed since that time, and non-Amiga technology rocketed since. And it's a generalization of the community, not only mine, to call "oldschool" anything that is non-contemporary PC. At least on the demoparties, when oldschool categories consist of only few productions, one or two per platform.
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And, I might be wrong, these questions have some note of arrogance.
I only wanted to apply some degree of irony. Sorry for that.
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For ex. Asm68k was the only language the scene was accepting. Other languages were not, let's say delicately, "appreciated". Funny, is not it ;).
Learning that as we speak, the hard way ;) Actually if I hadn't mention AMOS at least some people wouldn't trigger so easily. But yeah, generally it's hard to obfuscate the fact it's not ASM. A (great) room for improvement.
Quote:
You got my point... I hope.
I think I did, it turned out just now that the demo has lots of issues - my home setup had exactly the versions on which it works the best. Well, lesson learnt, I'll try to debug it. And keep things in mind for the future.
Thanks for the constructive comment, that's appreciated.
@domel
Before one can evaluate the content, the system requirements should be well defined and the production should then run without problems.
Otherwise the production is more difficult to rate.
So I hope that you can release a fixed and more polite version.
Before one can evaluate the content, the system requirements should be well defined and the production should then run without problems.
Otherwise the production is more difficult to rate.
So I hope that you can release a fixed and more polite version.
Sure, just the linked executable is the party version. Due to the issues please expect final version soon.
I don't really understand the purpose of this demo.
Effects that can be done on a stock A500 but need a 68040/060? what's the point?
btw, the music is ok!
Effects that can be done on a stock A500 but need a 68040/060? what's the point?
btw, the music is ok!
Quote:
Thanks for the constructive comment, that's appreciated.
reHello Domel!=)
Thank YOU that you understood my (and other dudes') intentions . Thank you as well for being opened and trying to overcome the feeling of "injustice" (which is not easy, if we try to defend the fruit of our big effort).
Believe me, ppl are friendly, here (as well ;). But true, sometimes it does not look like and the remarks may hurt.
If you feel so, well... I think the best method is to dust it off, learn the lesson (sometimes it may take days or weeks) and move forward.
Perhaps show something more slick in the future?
But hey, I forgot to comment the prod. Sorry.
Good in design. Nice gfx, very cool music.
But the synchro, and the overall execution... I felt like: you start to watch, you see a new demo on your beloved AMIGA, you got excited... and suddenly you are not allowed to pursue the pleasure because of cuts (for ex).
Yes, I know, we are kids ;)
So, piggy this time.
Additional note (perhaps personal): there is oldskool and oldskool ;). On the Amiga, some prods simply MUST run on the stock machjne (A500).
A1200 have some, as you noticed, exceptions. But still, the demo needs to be squeezed and codewise optimized as much as possible.
And the true blasphemy for the Amiga scene is to have a PC approach, i.e. when it does not work on Pentium 100, use Pentium 3 then. AlienTech got the point here (in his 1st sentence).
And demos like those from TBL or ELUDE are difficult to produce. Takes time, many tricks and personally-developed dedicated tools. It is better to have slightly modest production with less fireworks, but which works like a charm and is interesting in design and presentation.
OK. Enuff said ;). Take care!
A1200 have some, as you noticed, exceptions. But still, the demo needs to be squeezed and codewise optimized as much as possible.
And the true blasphemy for the Amiga scene is to have a PC approach, i.e. when it does not work on Pentium 100, use Pentium 3 then. AlienTech got the point here (in his 1st sentence).
And demos like those from TBL or ELUDE are difficult to produce. Takes time, many tricks and personally-developed dedicated tools. It is better to have slightly modest production with less fireworks, but which works like a charm and is interesting in design and presentation.
OK. Enuff said ;). Take care!
given that most of the comments and disapproval above, were based on the original, please note that NFO has been altered:
https://www.pouet.net/topic.php?post=578367 (coder's request to change NFO)
additionally, download link has been changed from the original with the same reason, still the same exe, only new NFO. for the historical purpose, here's the link to the original archive, released at xenium 2022 demoparty: https://files.scene.org/view/parties/2022/xenium22/demo_oldschool/demoamiga_duskwave_shaggy.zip
Code:
$ diff shaggy_info.OLD shaggy_info.NEW
---
[OLD] requirements: 2 MB chip, 8 MB fast, some decent CPU, ECS
---
[NEW] requirements: 2 MB chip, 8 MB fast, 68040. AGA is not required.https://www.pouet.net/topic.php?post=578367 (coder's request to change NFO)
additionally, download link has been changed from the original with the same reason, still the same exe, only new NFO. for the historical purpose, here's the link to the original archive, released at xenium 2022 demoparty: https://files.scene.org/view/parties/2022/xenium22/demo_oldschool/demoamiga_duskwave_shaggy.zip
funny
IMHO artistic value of this prod is great. Apart from Amiga technical/ programming issues that I simply don't know about I had a lot of fun with this production. I'm sure this is just the beginning and next prods made by Domel/DuskWave will kick butt for sure.
I usually don't come here anymore to comment. However, as a counterpoint I wanted to share my own opinion that might divert from others.
I found the demo very entertaining. It was funny, and I wanted to know with whom they would come up next, regarding the scientists. The soundtrack was a real banger. The effects were, well, not spectacular, but they did not need to be. Sometimes I thought the 3D plane sorting was broken on purpose to make it more interesting.
As for the system requirements: I don't care much about oldskool or how you paint your nostalgia in. If I target A500 512+512 for my own stuff, that's my personal decision. There have been high-end Amiga demos for a long time, regardless if you classify them as ECS or AGA. TBL was mentioned a few times -- some of the high-end AGA demos are very much generic in the sense that they only use the Amiga as a framebuffer. What's the point in that? Especially after, say, 1995? A few have been ported to other platforms, which makes sense because they're as generic as most of the PC productions nowadays. Most of them don't entertain me at all. Bland, replaceable.
To me, stubbornly still using AMOS to express creativity shows more of the Amiga spirit than most of the high-end (AGA) Amiga productions that don't even use a single sprite or even a more than standard copperlist. (Imagine what might have happened, if I had added more demoscene stuff into AMCAF 28 years ago -- would you claim AMOS/AMCAF would be a demomaker kit that kills the demoscene? I doubt it!).
Downvoting a production because in your opinion it should have been marked as "AGA" or "Wild" to me seems kind of arrogant (that also goes with the comment about "difficult to produce" and "personally-developed dedicated tools" -- as if e.g. the triangle data drop out of the sky -- how do you know, how much effort went into producing that demo?). Revision for example, (IMHO) fails every year to make an Amiga competition that makes things actually comparable. There have been ZX Spectrum demos with 100 MHz CPUs and at some point I was thinking of doing a "Wild" intro that would use UAE with "immediate blitter" enabled (would that count as an Amiga intro or not?).
Congrats for winning the compo with Shaggy. Keep up the good work! Watching the progress Domel had over the last few years, I guess he will not need to play with AMOS for much longer, but if he has fun, who are we to discourage him?
I found the demo very entertaining. It was funny, and I wanted to know with whom they would come up next, regarding the scientists. The soundtrack was a real banger. The effects were, well, not spectacular, but they did not need to be. Sometimes I thought the 3D plane sorting was broken on purpose to make it more interesting.
As for the system requirements: I don't care much about oldskool or how you paint your nostalgia in. If I target A500 512+512 for my own stuff, that's my personal decision. There have been high-end Amiga demos for a long time, regardless if you classify them as ECS or AGA. TBL was mentioned a few times -- some of the high-end AGA demos are very much generic in the sense that they only use the Amiga as a framebuffer. What's the point in that? Especially after, say, 1995? A few have been ported to other platforms, which makes sense because they're as generic as most of the PC productions nowadays. Most of them don't entertain me at all. Bland, replaceable.
To me, stubbornly still using AMOS to express creativity shows more of the Amiga spirit than most of the high-end (AGA) Amiga productions that don't even use a single sprite or even a more than standard copperlist. (Imagine what might have happened, if I had added more demoscene stuff into AMCAF 28 years ago -- would you claim AMOS/AMCAF would be a demomaker kit that kills the demoscene? I doubt it!).
Downvoting a production because in your opinion it should have been marked as "AGA" or "Wild" to me seems kind of arrogant (that also goes with the comment about "difficult to produce" and "personally-developed dedicated tools" -- as if e.g. the triangle data drop out of the sky -- how do you know, how much effort went into producing that demo?). Revision for example, (IMHO) fails every year to make an Amiga competition that makes things actually comparable. There have been ZX Spectrum demos with 100 MHz CPUs and at some point I was thinking of doing a "Wild" intro that would use UAE with "immediate blitter" enabled (would that count as an Amiga intro or not?).
Congrats for winning the compo with Shaggy. Keep up the good work! Watching the progress Domel had over the last few years, I guess he will not need to play with AMOS for much longer, but if he has fun, who are we to discourage him?
It's not like I'm biased a bit (having helped with some AMOS prods before :-)) but this is a nice demo with cool music and had some nice effects as well. Also, it nicely fits the party theme and - unsurprisingly - earned some applause when shown on the big screen.
Sure, it could've been C not AMOS, the spec could be probably just A500 1MB etc, but hey, don't bash the prod just because the author hasn't abandoned AMOS yet (I hope this will happen soon). Don't bash the prod because it got the first place but turned out it's not EON.
And seriously, is it really THAT bad? Spoiler alert: no, it isn't, at least not in my opinion.
Domel: keep doing good job, hoping to see more from you!
Sure, it could've been C not AMOS, the spec could be probably just A500 1MB etc, but hey, don't bash the prod just because the author hasn't abandoned AMOS yet (I hope this will happen soon). Don't bash the prod because it got the first place but turned out it's not EON.
And seriously, is it really THAT bad? Spoiler alert: no, it isn't, at least not in my opinion.
Domel: keep doing good job, hoping to see more from you!
I see it like this. The special thing about good productions for certain retro-systems always was, adhering to the limits that the hardware of such a system specified. Getting the maximum out of this, was the goal of the most demo or game makers and that's exactly the attraction of the whole thing, which many programmers of such demos are still pursuing today. Today you have much stronger PC's, but adhering to the limits, set for example by a C-64, Amiga or Atari-ST, is what appeals to the programmers here.
When new demos come out now, that look about as good as some of the well-known classic demos (but not better), but then have much higher hardware-requirements, then, i am sorry to say it, the work of the makers of such a demo can no longer be rated as high, than those of the programmers of the old classic demos back then, which run without any problems with 512kb chipram + 512kb fastram, but look just as good. It's completely normal, that not everyone upvotes here then anymore. It's not that these people then say, this demo here is bad, but they think - why not making it possible on 1MB Amiga machines?
When a new PC-demo would compete in a PC-demos competition, but would look like a Amiga-500 demo, then such a demo would also not win this PC-competition, because people would say "For what power new PC's have, it doesn't look particularly good, it looks rather dated, considering the platform, it runs on". And here it's similar. On such an Amiga computer, which this demo here needs, one could produce a much better looking demo, but this demo here looks like it could also run on a normal A500 with 1MB memory and then it even wins the oldskool demo-competition, against other demos that are inside the 1MB limits.
Don't get me wrong, i don't want to belittle this demo here, nor the work on it, but it's clear, that some users are wondering, why it has such high system requirements. Is probably also due to AMOS, i guess. The whole thing keeps reminding me of many new Amiga games, that were created with some toolkits and can't keep up at all, with the most of the old classic Amiga-games from the 90s. Sadly that has become somewhat like a standard for new Amiga games in the meanwhile, while it looks completely different on other machines, like for example the C64, were the limits of the machine were maxed out like never before, in the last years. One would wish, that on the Amiga it would also go more in such directions at some point. But fortunately, there are already some good new games and especially new demos on the Amiga, that weren't made with any construction kit :)
When new demos come out now, that look about as good as some of the well-known classic demos (but not better), but then have much higher hardware-requirements, then, i am sorry to say it, the work of the makers of such a demo can no longer be rated as high, than those of the programmers of the old classic demos back then, which run without any problems with 512kb chipram + 512kb fastram, but look just as good. It's completely normal, that not everyone upvotes here then anymore. It's not that these people then say, this demo here is bad, but they think - why not making it possible on 1MB Amiga machines?
When a new PC-demo would compete in a PC-demos competition, but would look like a Amiga-500 demo, then such a demo would also not win this PC-competition, because people would say "For what power new PC's have, it doesn't look particularly good, it looks rather dated, considering the platform, it runs on". And here it's similar. On such an Amiga computer, which this demo here needs, one could produce a much better looking demo, but this demo here looks like it could also run on a normal A500 with 1MB memory and then it even wins the oldskool demo-competition, against other demos that are inside the 1MB limits.
Don't get me wrong, i don't want to belittle this demo here, nor the work on it, but it's clear, that some users are wondering, why it has such high system requirements. Is probably also due to AMOS, i guess. The whole thing keeps reminding me of many new Amiga games, that were created with some toolkits and can't keep up at all, with the most of the old classic Amiga-games from the 90s. Sadly that has become somewhat like a standard for new Amiga games in the meanwhile, while it looks completely different on other machines, like for example the C64, were the limits of the machine were maxed out like never before, in the last years. One would wish, that on the Amiga it would also go more in such directions at some point. But fortunately, there are already some good new games and especially new demos on the Amiga, that weren't made with any construction kit :)
Platon42, in your glorious inarrogance, how much time have you spent in running the demo?
I remember my first demoparty entry was an AMOS demo called "Kugalskap" back in 1996 https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=50202. This was meant as a fun entry, however it was faking some highend effects using animations!
In the middle of the run a guy in the audience shouted "ANIIIMATIOOOON!" and set of the whole crowd of about 3000 people booing on my ass. I felt humiliated beyond what 100 thumbs down on pouet could achieve!
From the Swedish accent of the guy shouting I kind of figured that must have been a member of TBL. Possibly Tudor or Rubberduck.
From that point I swore an oath on the skulls of my ancestors that I would get my revenge one day!
And on the party 1999 our 100% asm demo Concrete won over the TBL demo Rain by over a 1000 points. The sense of victory and revenge was so grand that I honestly blacked out during the price giving ceremony. What a power flush!
Now after that time we lost multiple times to TBL again of course, but the moral of the story is that seeing the people thumbing down your AMOS prod, you should spend the next 15 years sharpening your skills and destroy them in upcoming competitions one by one :D For that true demoscene feeling.
In the middle of the run a guy in the audience shouted "ANIIIMATIOOOON!" and set of the whole crowd of about 3000 people booing on my ass. I felt humiliated beyond what 100 thumbs down on pouet could achieve!
From the Swedish accent of the guy shouting I kind of figured that must have been a member of TBL. Possibly Tudor or Rubberduck.
From that point I swore an oath on the skulls of my ancestors that I would get my revenge one day!
And on the party 1999 our 100% asm demo Concrete won over the TBL demo Rain by over a 1000 points. The sense of victory and revenge was so grand that I honestly blacked out during the price giving ceremony. What a power flush!
Now after that time we lost multiple times to TBL again of course, but the moral of the story is that seeing the people thumbing down your AMOS prod, you should spend the next 15 years sharpening your skills and destroy them in upcoming competitions one by one :D For that true demoscene feeling.
And also you may become friends with these new found enemies too when you meet face to face at parties. :)
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sharpening your skills and destroy them in upcoming competitions
Why destroying? Nahhh.
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And also you may become friends with these new found enemies too when you meet face to face at parties. :)
Exactly =). Without destroying anyone ;).
PS. Congratulations RLoadErro for your win in 1999! =) Nothing matters after that.
heheh :) My post is a bit over the top. I'm trying to say that one can aspire to win against the critics in future competitions.
Very cool production, with an idea and well suited to the theme of the party. There is also a huge improvement over previous productions, well done!
A bit repetitive and seems somewhat slow also on the author’s machine, but the concept works out pretty well and the music rocks. Looking forward to your future productions.
Demo with potential, that 3d faces are cool. Thumb up for supporting the Amiga scene.
@domel Prod txt explains base requirements, and that you tested on AGA/040. But you provided a recording from faster emu, and AGA/040 is not ECS. Even if you must report 'oldskool' from orga weakness, and can report ECS because Pouet weakness, and Pouet audience is weak from not running demos anymore, so you should have provided a recording from a real ECS Amiga with specs.
Sceners don't run demos these days, but you shouldn't count on that.
Sceners don't run demos these days, but you shouldn't count on that.
Lovely usage of party theme ❤️
@Photon good advice, thanks - will keep that in mind. Learnt hard this year ;)
After all those extensive and serious comments I want to add
something hilarious: Somehow the very first sample reminds me of the
audioplay "Die drei ??? und der grüne Geist" / "The Three
Investigators in The Mystery of the Green Ghost"
As for the demo: Apart from the fact it seems to require HEAVY
hardware (I am not a big fan thereof) I really like what I see and hear;
very nice idea and a great music track.
But where are good old Max P. and Werner H.?
something hilarious: Somehow the very first sample reminds me of the
audioplay "Die drei ??? und der grüne Geist" / "The Three
Investigators in The Mystery of the Green Ghost"
As for the demo: Apart from the fact it seems to require HEAVY
hardware (I am not a big fan thereof) I really like what I see and hear;
very nice idea and a great music track.
But where are good old Max P. and Werner H.?
http://rubinkowo.net/permalink/demo_shaggy.zip is down?
Aside from all that tech discussion - this demo just wasn't boring like many other entries.
So sharpen your blade, switch to C, then to ASM and rock the house ;)
So sharpen your blade, switch to C, then to ASM and rock the house ;)
Such a good demo. It's elegant and technically impressive. Not to mention that the folks behind this work of art are just as cool as the demo itself :) (or more, haha).
Nice AMOS demo but platform (here in Pouet at least) indicates something else than the reality...
Impressive demo, nice design and excellent music.
After I read the comments up there, I found it's AMOS. Good job even as for AMOS. True's that in ASM there's triple-plenty more work with 3D than with AMOS 3D Expansion.
I'd like to postulate to all party organisers for separating categories of demos into: traditional ASM, AMOS or even players for Open GL, Fanta Animation Program, Hanna Barbera Animation Workshop, Vector Studio et c. The last ones specifically. I. e. the boxing - there are weight categories and no weight class mismatch.
In genesis times only music player routine was allowed to include in code and we should stick to it. No system, no libraries, no enviroments. Other way it's to easy to compete for someone with library 3D support with somebody fiddling 3D routine from scratch in ASM.
That's my very personal opinion. I've just written phong, you know... :) Tip of the hat, yo, yo!
After I read the comments up there, I found it's AMOS. Good job even as for AMOS. True's that in ASM there's triple-plenty more work with 3D than with AMOS 3D Expansion.
I'd like to postulate to all party organisers for separating categories of demos into: traditional ASM, AMOS or even players for Open GL, Fanta Animation Program, Hanna Barbera Animation Workshop, Vector Studio et c. The last ones specifically. I. e. the boxing - there are weight categories and no weight class mismatch.
In genesis times only music player routine was allowed to include in code and we should stick to it. No system, no libraries, no enviroments. Other way it's to easy to compete for someone with library 3D support with somebody fiddling 3D routine from scratch in ASM.
That's my very personal opinion. I've just written phong, you know... :) Tip of the hat, yo, yo!
It was good fun at the party and we all enjoyed it, especially after all those years with crap-crap-tros finally some folks (you & jimmy) at least tried to show something visually decent in Amiga category, fuck the tiny detail it's AMOS and not performing.
And for the pure enjoyment of the party folk with your next prod, please remember, party folk appreciates always, internet and pouet YT critics who rarely.
If you want to have a good sleep, forget about recording a video and don't publish on YT, this way you're free of picky blinders.
See you at Xenium with another prod, this year! (2023)
And for the pure enjoyment of the party folk with your next prod, please remember, party folk appreciates always, internet and pouet YT critics who rarely.
If you want to have a good sleep, forget about recording a video and don't publish on YT, this way you're free of picky blinders.
See you at Xenium with another prod, this year! (2023)
Love the sound of the music. You guys rules!!
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