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More vertical rasterbars, following on from Crossbow/Crest's "Demus Interruptus" and managing a few interesting twists on the way. Very nice stuff. =-)

More vertical rasterbars, following on from Crossbow/Crest's "Demus Interruptus" and managing a few interesting twists on the way. Very nice stuff. =-)

stefan rocks

...and HCL did it again. Respect!

Not sure who Stefan is, but David (HCL) does rock, indeed.

I am starting to like the old tradition of record breaking - after all these years :)

stefan is the guy on one of the screenshots.

krass!

Wired graphics, yes, but this demo looks better than Royal Arte. The code is great as always, but my BD favorite onefiler is still Happy Birthday.

some of those vertical rasters are too ugly for my taste, but hcl seems to have listened to the critics who thought royal arte looked to clean and lacked surprises. some of the design in this demo sure puzzled me. well done :)

Ah, that Stefan :) Voll krass ey!

Really nice! I liked it.

Erkan & Stefan (german comedy duo) are not really funny, and this demo is not really interesting either. A touch of 'demus interruptus' mixed together with some 'royal arte' style and you get a half-baked 2-effects-demo. Okey for a none-party release though...

Tomaes: You seem to be writing an awful lot of comments here, and I still haven't seen any sign of you having any clue whatsoever about C-64 demos. It's nice of you to show some interest anyway.

And again a dude, who thinks "my opinion is the only one I can accept". Bullshitting on other people's opinion is cheap. And yes, I DO have a c64 background, what else should be the reason of "showing intrest".

So what's your C-64 background? Gaming? Making BASIC demos? "opinion", right? And who called Digital Magic a slide show?

Digital Magic IS a slide show in it's very core, you mormon. ;) And yes, I did gaming, just like you, when you started, just to went on with coding and music later on. (don't tell me you started demo coding on the same day you got your 64er).

And now, stop your ridiculous flaming-attemps and stop behaving like a retarded 8bit fundamentalist. :)

i did start coding the first day i got my C64, first thing i wrote was a game and the second was a shoot-em-up. And Digital Magic still isn't a slideshow.

tomaeS: aber e&s sin wirkloicj lustig. order warens mal. und ich bin betrunken!!

Tomaes: I'll stop harassing you when you stop spewing bullshit about stuff that you don't know anything about. Ridiculous? Your wannabe manners and stupid comments are what's ridiculous here.

Putterman, Have you ever been told that one needs at least ONE argument in order to have something like a discussion? You still don't have a point. Please tell me, Mr. C64 himself, what are the things I have no clue about, mhmm?

The c64 is not the holy grail. And even if it is, your are not it's protector.

The C64 *is* the holy grail for those working on/for/with it. And in fact, every single C64 scener *is* a protector of it.
However Tomaes, you drew a wrong conclusion here. Puterman is not protecting the C64 or the C64 scene. As I see, he's just commenting your ridiculously low knowledge of the C64 scene's sense.
Considering the C64 scene - your works, abusing your miserable relation to it, nevertheless grasping to your so-called "c64 background" just to make your point about a demo which is a ground-braker in it's kind, is same as a 7 year old speaking about quantum-physics. End of story, please grow up.

If someone started writing comments like "this is no demo, this is just multimedia presentation" to PC demos, because he/she didn't know shit about what kind of stuff you can do on that platform, that'd probably be considered as pretty lame and annoying, just like your uninformed comments about C-64 demos.

Why should I tell you what it is that you don't have a clue about? If you'd tell us what you know about the C-64, it'd take a lot less text. So come on mr. I moved on from games to coding, tell us what you know about coding on the C-64.

And after you've done that, maybe you could enlighten us about why Digital Magic doesn't deserve to be called a demo.

Wow, finally new records too.
I love this record beating, don't you?
Actually, it's not a demo I prefer, too much effect oriented but hey, I couldn't do it and so I say it's good :)

And another good thing is, it's not a party release.
We need more out - of - party releases, fingers out of the arses :)

Ok, for the last time, I try argumenting a bit more on the serious side here.

Puterman, Well, in my very humble opinion DM is much closer to a slide show than to a demo because it's a presentation which focuses on showing gfx artwork. Sure, there is code to enrich the whole thing a little bit, probably more code than in most other slide shows, but nonetheless, there is no "real" effect in it, or the other way around, the transition effects support only the idea of presenting gfx. Conclusion: It's a slide show, with demo aspects, let's say, 70% slide show, 30% demo. Ok?

Jailbird: I can't help you. Feel free to feel superior and god like. I worship you. I'm sad, that tolerance is an unknown word for you. Even if I don't know any ever discovered technique, any ever used gfx mode, any ever released demo, any other whatsoever, I can still have an opinion right? And my opinion doesn't need to be equal to yours.

end of discussion.

>Sure, there is code to enrich the whole thing a little bit

with your background on the c64 scene you ought to know how much code and skill that is required to pull off the stuff in digital magic. dismissing it as just a slideshow isnt very fair to dane

No it's pretty not the end of discussion.
What is a "real effect" in your definition, Tomaes? Thoruses, burning vectors, smacky 4x4 3d objects? Probably.
Frankly, I don't need your worship nor nobody else's, and anyway, why should I tolerate someone's dumbness? Sure you can have an opinion, and sure does other people has the right to question it's rank.
I believe that we're writing to Pouet's comment-board, not "Tomaes is right in every way and don't dare to degrade his opinion"-board. If there is one, I'll make you sure I won't leave any comments.

Well, Tomaes, it seems you've just proved that you actually don't have any trace of a clue, so the discussion is indeed over.

This was good! weird charset though; could need some design.

Oh..and if DM was a slideshow, then EVERYTHING on my computer is a slideshow.... I thought DM was just a musicdisk, with some great tunes...

ok demo... nothing special though...

and this whole discussion is getting very silly...

yeah

people actually flaming eachother about or 'discussing' C64 "demos" (all of them look like UNINTERESTING SHIT anyway), SUCK.

go buy a geforce 4 and stop pretending that you like an old retarded 8-bit 'and slow as hell' machine for more than it's worth.

out.

word.

Gosh, Superplek, I am deeply touched by your way intelligent comment. I really mean that. And I am sure I'm not the only one you have at the very moment convinced and reformed. Now I seriously mean to trash my c64 and buy a state-of-the art PC. Just after I sell my house and a few of my family members.
The discussion is silly, otherwise we wouldn't have any fun on the scene, apart from making pr0n-demos :)
Oh, and just to set everything to it's right order: is anyone forcing you to read discussion about c64 or to watch 8bit demos, Superplek?

plek, please dont disturb our little circle of inbreed, we are trying to have a good time. and dont say that all c64 demos look like uninteresting shit, because thats the same argument that the more retarded(in a bad way) c64 sceners use to explain why they dont watch pc demos.

i don't watch PC demos 'cos my P2 350 with no 3D card and only 1Mb of video RAM suffers a bit if i try... =-)

oh, yes, i forgot people like you when generalizing hollowman :)

i'm sorry, i'll hereby make perfectly clear that i was addressing the retarded c64 sceners :)

I watch and more or less enjoy in PC demos as long as they're running on my P1 crap. Read: I don't have money for a better comp, and probably never will have enough $$$ for buying a PC that can run today's demos.
but to be perfectly honest, and just to stay on the level of some:
ooiii, i 'aate pee-zee d'mos 'cuz 'ey SUCK!

it shows alot how stupid the c64 sceners must be... not having around 500$ for a decent machine (athlonxp,motherboard,some memory, a geforce2 and such should easily be found by that money) .. and if you smash that out on a year you have ~40$ / month ... i wouldnt say thats a big thing ;-)

Hey stop harashing people because of their comments! I always hate when telling me that I don't have the right to say my opinion about a matter/demo/etc because I am not specialized in it! And who is supposed to be elite enough to say a right opinion about it and after how much time of scening will I have the right to say my comments about a demo? Should I be a coder or something for that? Opinions are subjective so I don't care..

It's nice to see more C64 sceners joining pouet. There are a lot of PC freaks in here (I also started watching demos on PC) but fewer from alternative scene platforms. We should invade pouet, I shall continue spreading my propaganda =)
Sometimes I prefer to see C64 and other old sceners harashing PCs, because I also do dislike it lately, and the PC sceners spirit too,. but from the other side I sadly start to dislike C64 fanatics attitude, as they are 1337 people and C64 their holy grail as someone well said,. even if most time I love them,... but sometimes I am pissed of them alll. But sometimes i love and if more people from alternative scenes would come in here then a real flame war and advertisement for all the small scenes and prods would start and it would be great and fun and,.. but ok I am a preety wicked beeing and stuff and sometimes I feel sad with the scene but I will come back in better spirit, cu...

Oh,. about the demo. It's a nice prod after a long time of shit in C64, raster bars are boring but stil a record breaker,. the interlaced pics are the most flickerless I have seen even upon an FLD (Hardware y scaling) effect! I enjoyed the demo the first time watched, especially because it was a lot of time since I last saw a C64 demo with new coding records and stuff..

Something fun about PC, now there are so many C64 sceners here in this demothread, I remembered:

If you get a random latest PC demo featuring a scroller, most coders are doing it in a lame way. There is no fontset but: For a scroller of 16*16 fonts, a huge image of width 2563 and height 16! For an upscroller in 320*200, there is an image of width of 320 and height of 3746 for example!!! They scroll the whole thing, no fonts to construct it at real time!!! You see such image files when viewing the raw files of a demo (No files inside a big DAT or EXE anymore, just raw files..) and you can't simple stop laughing! =)

If I was coding a scroller the way new PC coders do it, then I would have problems with democompo size restrictions! ;)

Another funny thing about PC! (Sorry, just some piece of great mood, can't stop writting! =)

A strange and funny paradox::
Imagine a C64 demo: A tech-tech effect upon the logo of Commodore!
Imagine a Spectrum demo: A zooming pic of Clive Sinclair or something..
An Atari demo: The fuji logo upon a rotozoomer
A GBA demo: A gouraud shaded super mario
etc..
Imagine now a PC demo: A textured cube with an Intel Outside pic!!!

Every owner of every machine is praising their creators in the demos! PC sceners/users are the only ones who hates the creators of their machines!!! I can hardly imagine a demo with a Windows rules message or Intel inside and stuff. There isn't! Only cubes with Intel outside logos and demos torturing bill gates!!! Every PC demo is hating something, sometimes PC sceners hate each other, because one wants windows and the other dos, one OpenGl and the other Direct3d, hehe :)

PCs are wicked. End of story.

Gee. And here I thought this thread was about Digital M...sorry, I mean Interruptus Retriggerus. Cool onefiler - I don't get all the jokes - love the note. :)

lator, and you show how stupid you are, not all people here are rich swedish kids who can spend 500$ on a new computer and still have money left for fancy haircuts

optimus, i dont mind if people say "i dont like this" or "i do like this!", its about people who lack knowledge but act as if they didnt. speaking of knowledge, you ought to do some checkup on what FLD means

lator havnt got a fancy haircut, he looks like a supernerd

Hollowman is speaking from my heart.

Stefan: I live in a fucking poor country, and my monthly earning sometimes doesn't even reaches $100. $40 is quite a lot for me, it _is_ a big thing, and however much I'd love to, I can't spend any extra money for computer related things. That makes me stupid, yeah, I salute to you. Not all people live in wonderlands and getting payment of $1000 +, you're probably not informed about that.

hollowman:
i wouldnt say i come from a rich family in any matter... but ~400 SEK/month isnt a big thing.. get a job or something, even a mcdonald job would let you finance that... with a big marginal ;)

jailbird:
doesnt reach $100 ?? uhm what country is that? and how did you afford a c64 for so long ago? its not like it was cheaper back then to the modern pc's today... its more like a pc today is alot cheaper than the c64 was back in the 80s...

stefan, wake up from your western richman illusia. check czech republic: a teacher earns about 100$ a month there. same in russia. and in many other european countries, and even worse. you think people suffer only in africa or smth ? no, half of geographical europe is actually that poor. and it's great to see people from that coutries still participating in scene, often with more spirit and energy than some lazy fed up cozy-living west-european scene nerds.

you comment was one of the most disgusting things i ever read on pouet. you should be ashamed of yourself, you have injured the feelings of many, i guess.

If you get a random latest PC demo featuring a scroller, most coders are doing it in a lame way. There is no fontset but: For a scroller of 16*16 fonts, a huge image of width 2563 and height 16! For an upscroller in 320*200, there is an image of width of 320 and height of 3746 for example!!! They scroll the whole thing, no fonts to construct it at real time!!! You see such image files when viewing the raw files of a demo (No files inside a big DAT or EXE anymore, just raw files..) and you can't simple stop laughing! =)



hahahahahahhahaha
LOSER

dipswitch:
you should read the entire post moron.

and seriously, who are the people who does the PPC demos today on amiga? yes.. the polish guys..

and again, read the entire post, moron =)

btw, this production are made by deutch people...

hollowman are swedish, tmr are from england, i dont even bother to lookup the rest of you :)

i did read the whole post mega-moron. else i wouldnt post to it, seen ?

...no, there are enough peeps doing amiga (and PPC too) demos in western europe, and no, their are neither idiots nor nerd nor whatsoever.

...and jailbird is yugoslavian, if you still didnt realize, and i am russian (though i live in germany for a time now), and i feel for all the people in the east suppoting the scene heavily. so just take care what you say. it's so simple NOT to insult people and hurt their feelings.. just try it out one time.

Yup, TMR are from... erm, is from (singular, since there's only one of me) England and, due to medical reasons, has been unemployed for nine months so there's no money for a new machine just to run demos.

England isn't as prosperous a country as some would believe...

i guess england sucks :)

dipswitch:
yougoslavian? that country exists? :D

well, for russias concern its enough with AND , theres no need with more russian sceners anyways :-D

stefan: yep, yugoslavian (a hungarian living in the north of serbia, to be more exact). and as long as you weren't living on mars for the last 20 years, you might know that the financial situation of this region was way different 16 years ago, when i've got my first c64. it served me for more than 10 years without breaking down. and when it finally decided to climb the rainbow in the way of c64-valhalla, 64s got so cheap that i could afford a new one from my monthly pocket-money.
but don't worry, i'll check those demos requireing p3/3d/256mb/whatever in 5 years, when they'll be affordable for people like me.

dipswitch: as far as i am concernced, stefan didn't hurt my feelings in any way for sure.
if someone demonstrates a huge dose of infantility, i rather pet the head of the poor kid with a very worm smyle. what else to do, child abuse is illegal afaik, but childrens abusing pouet is sadly, not. ;)

what i meant was : does yoguslavia still exist? i mean.. as a country, isnt it 100% splitted up now?perhaps not =)

oh no-no, with respecting 95.3% of the sceners reading these comments, i wouldn't like to bore anyone with history lessons, if you feel really interested, what i strongly doubt, go google and you will find out everything about (former-) yugoslavia. we have been told, btw, that Yugoslavia will change it's name to "serbia & montenegro". so even if you are a minimalistic mind in geography but living in europe, from my previous sentence you can easily draw out the conclusion from which two states yugoslavia exist.
as for me, i wouldn't mind even if it would called "homo-loo-loo & junkland" as long as the fags deciding about the name of the country assure jobs for the people and geforces for those who want to watch pc demos :/

i can't stop repeating how amazed i am by your comments supaplex. do you have anything *smart* to add sometimes? at least one tiny, incy-wincy smart word apart from SUCK, LOSER, FUCK, or insert your favourite 4 or 5 letter word for commenting posts?
have you ever been told to check your IQ as it's probably not reaching the level of allowing you beeing outside in the real world and shocking people with outstanding statements.

wow. i am really amazed what a huge arse stefan is making out of himself here.

shiva:
well.. thanks :-)

and however, to wrap up my ideas bout this thread and leave it to you folks:
Demoscene has always been bigger in the "rich" countrys.. and yes, (ex-)yoguslavia was not such a poor country as it is today..

And then again, the best PC release this year was a russian product (SQUISH) and theres lots of activity on the pc scene in general from russia..

so saying people cannot afford pc's etc there sounds odd :)

ofcourse not *everyone* can afford buying new pc hardware each year, but i had a 400Mhz TNT2 machine until a year ago or so, and i cant say i had any problems with that. sure i had to make a system to have very ugly lod so i could make geforce demanding stuff on a tnt2 and such, that however, was never a problem..

And you also have the referencedrivers, if you wanna test stuff your card cant handle, and most likely you can send it over to someone else to check speed etc... so its not impossible.... and i would say that c-64 scene lives because there are a bunch morons that still find it fun doing stuff that they did in their youth... no problem with that.. lots of adults plays football/hockey and other sports with their companys and such ..

still... watching a companys football/hockey game is amuzing as wanking off infront of a mitch bucannon picture.

greetings,
this is the UNESCO department of cultural heritage. this thread has been declared a Monument to Human Stupidity, and as such needs to be preserved for future generations in its present state. therefore please refrain from posting in this thread after this message.
your co-operation is appreciated.

Does that mean stefan is a cult? Actually, that's almost the word i had in mind... =-)

case closed.
oh and mr. jailbird, pull your head out of your c64. it might clear your mind and sight.

superplek: oh jesus my friggin christ, why was i expecting something like that from you i wonder. from two of us, seems i am not the one blindfolded here. and anyway i can't see any coherence in those lousy last two sentences of yours.

Sorry about FLD. I know it's flexible line interpratetion, I think it's a hardware trick to choose for each rasterline, which line from the vram to display, something similar exists on CPC and we do Y scaling and stuff fast with that.. but I knew sooo little about C64 and haven't coded anything,.. haven't understood where I did wrong yet though..

About money and computers. I have said before, the problem for me is not the price, but the lost spirit of the scene. Telling someone that his code is way to unoptimized, it needs a lot of memory and CPU without reason and then he answers "Hey! Why are you crying? Memory parts are very cheap today!!!" this is bad PC spirit for me. I don't care if it's cheap or not, I speak about lost scene spirit,. todays PC sceners, kids with lotsa money who don't care about optimizing cause in few months they will get a new processor..
But of course there are countries where it's also hard, I know it's hard in Yugoslavia. Here in Greece it isn't though, we do have money, but still I can't afford with my Taschengeld (How is it in english, I forgot damn?) to buy a new PC,... but still this is not why I am arguing about slow PC demos. It's about lack of the spirit. I will still argue for ever even if I have a monster PC... but better forget PC if you want to see real scene spirit..

Optimus: ever tried having some 3d textures in a pcdemo with sizelimit on 10MB ? together with hires models, hires 2d textures, effects+data for those, etc ?

thought so...
youre just a big fat wannabe, so STFUP

Stefan: One scener producing something (AND) doesn't mean that everyone in that country is able to buy a good PC.
Also, it's generall easy here in Greece for most of us to buy a new PC, but I do know few greek sceners that can't afford currently to upgrade their old PC. And another problem arises: If they ever find the money (from taschengeld (How is it in english again?) or small jobs) to update their system, it will be too late and also wont keep uptodate till 6 months or something. They will have to upgrade again..

Oh,. and I hate when you are degrading people just because they are still using a C64 or something.. (Then should I also stop doing the same for PC ones? Mmm,. never I guess, sorry! ;)

Optimus: you mean FPP, not FLD. And FLD means Flexible Line Distance, while FLI is (quite naturally) the abbreviation of Flexible Line Interpretation.

I am surelly a wannabe, but I do like to play with you stefan just for no reason!

Who cares..

Optimus: About Flexible Line Distance (FLD) etc; Here is some nice stuff to read.

It's funny that you know the german word "taschengeld". :) In English it's simply "pocket money" afaik.

Yeah Flexible Line Distance I wanted to say,. sorry, ugh!
What means FPP? A hardware trick too???
C64 is quite complex...

Ok,. I answered my questions alone..
So FPP is the stuff I was meaning, Flexible Pixel Positioning? Scanline per scanline..

When I was first using the term FLD, I thought that line meaned pixelline,. but now I guess that they mean char line (Or not?) This was my mistake. I had first seen that term in the demo Think Twice. Anyways,. I will check your link Tomaes now and stop asking silly questions...

Also a good link is:
http://www.student.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de/~mepk/c64/info/demo-acronyms.txt

It sums up most c64 coding related abbreviations :)

Hey! These links are great, finally I will learn more about the complex C64 graphic capabilities! (Sending the links to my email :)

That list sure was amusing!

"Each letter can have a sperate sinus tables per character."
"DYPPTT Different Y Pixel Position Tech Tech. Same as a DYXPP."
"Ray Tracing Maths graphics."

conerning $$$ matters..

if there is a will there is a way.

however some wont find that important enough and emphasize on different thangs..


for some its easier as well -> 1) living in easier side 2) having an "easy" parents 3) having an easy attitude - working a regular, well paid job

i fail at all 3 points yet that doesnt mean i am having less fun than you do.




this demo gets +1 since vertical rasters phorever!

hey optimus

to summarize:

- you probably never even made an effort to code some fancy real-time 3D animation and/or effects (not to start about experience in this field on a professional basis), since your rants show nothing else than cluelessness, but yet, you
rant about "pc scene spirit"

- you are too retarded to write proper english (a problem more people seem to have around here)

- if you want new hardware, then get a fucking job optimus. you know what a fucking loser you are? you need to get your act together. get a job. earn money. and then consume. "but i can't, i'm in school" -> a lot of kids work their asses off in the evening and on saturdays in order to earn a little extra.

on the other hand, only losers are working and wasting their lifetime ;)

whats up with ya'll.. optimus is freak and what he does is from the heart and thus he is always right.

perhaps you too.

superplek: I told you it's not about money and job. Even if I had a better computer I still wouldn't like to see another PC demo crawling in my system, just because everybody thinks we shouldn't be so wild about optimizing today and memory is very cheap today, etc ;P

But anyways. I wouldn't like to start this oldskool clasic rant again today. We should better get back to coding...

you're just not right.
a lot of people *do* optimize.

but not into extremes, since that is downright silly.

Whatever, I should better stop then and do something for the scene. If you ever see me arguing about the same matters again, flame me freely, I need it to stop talking ;) I know it will happen though again! We have our diferrent opinions, but it's not that good idea to continue arguing about. At least for today, I don't know how my mood will be another day :)

fact is that i'm well abled to come up with indepth arguments on the issue if required. the only thing i've heard you saying is silly stuff like "memory is cheap so we're wasting it".

I do beleive though that more can be done on the PC, it's just that people don't want anymore..

Isn't the stretcher effect called FLP (Flexible Line Position)?

And while we're at it, I believe DYPPTT/DXYPP is usually called "Fluffy".

Kewl demo btw. A small, entertaining production w/ kewl gfx and new records. And the interlacing stretcher is awesomely non-flickering.

Nice, but the design was bad.

nice, and extra funny discussion :)

For the demo and the discussion.

just for the demo :)

I wanna thumb up the comments here a second time.

If only it were for the music!

hi hi, slorry HCL...

Excellent. And pouet comments as well :P