pouët.net

Go to bottom

The legacy of Nextempire

category: general [glöplog]
@Serpent:
"Seeing is believing, so don't !"
This looks like "a monochrome nightmare... in color"
Guess what ! :)
added on the 2016-09-03 17:04:37 by Ok3anos Ok3anos
Quote:
by wertstahl:
Oh and why does the profile Info have this real name:
http://www.pouet.net/user.php?who=34375

but then, on the linked demozoo website, this individual is linked:
http://olivier.poudade.free.fr/

And i know some speak french in Canada, but isn't this a 100% french person? (RS is US/Canadian?)

Extremely confusing.
I should point out that you can write whatever you want in those name fields. It doesn't have to be your real name, or anything even close. So I wouldn't use that as a basis for anything.

Quote:
by Serpent:
I can't believe this is still being discussed.
I'd already reached that conclusion a while ago, and told you as much a few times, but you insisted at the time it was important that everyone know and take a side. Coming around to mine, then? :)
Star, not exactly, but because now it should be clear to everyone already :)
added on the 2016-09-03 19:01:43 by Serpent Serpent
Quote:
I should point out that you can write whatever you want in those name fields. It doesn't have to be your real name, or anything even close. So I wouldn't use that as a basis for anything.

And then some people start copying those names without verifying them (some other demoscene-related websites are guilty of this too, e.g. by copying nonsensensical ICQ contact information)
if the pouet forums had sticky posts, the original post on this thread would be the first candidate.
added on the 2016-09-03 20:57:21 by smash smash
Meanwhile at csdb:
(scroll down)

http://csdb.dk/group/?id=602&show=review
added on the 2016-09-03 21:54:34 by magic magic
@magic, this one: "...keep the drama on pouet where it belongs."? :))
added on the 2016-09-03 21:57:46 by bonefish bonefish
TL;DR
added on the 2016-09-04 00:31:27 by Exin Exin
What can i say. Except "I am so sorry!".

Thank you all for bearing with me, more or less, i really just stumbeled into the trap of being attracted to this topic. Now i can make a decent trainer for this.

Want drama [n/n] ? _

(all keys = n)

best
WS
added on the 2016-09-04 01:28:34 by ws ws
Quote:
The knowing is based on facts, on proofs.


facts can be falsified.
added on the 2016-09-04 03:07:51 by 1in10 1in10
No they can't, then they stop being facts :)
added on the 2016-09-04 03:23:50 by Gargaj Gargaj
Quote:
No they can't, then they stop being facts :)


yes, but then there is a change that someone becomes a believer;)
added on the 2016-09-04 03:33:25 by 1in10 1in10
BB Image
added on the 2016-09-04 09:28:58 by magic magic
Sorry for the others as I just picked up thread at the end of page 3.
Nevertheless I can answer already most if not all points from that point.

@Ok3anos (page 3 of 4 "3rd to last comment) :

Quebec is the only french speaking province of Canada, the rest is english speaking.
Your above assertion is False.
Please fully read Wikipedia's "French language in Canada" (cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_language_in_Canada) as French language existence is a little more complex than what you insinuate (only in Quebec).
Please note the sentence starting 2nd paragraph : "By the Official Languages Act in 1969, Canada recognized English and French as having equal status in the government of Canada."
Also note Quebec is indeed the province where "French is the majority official language" (80%) but "French is the mother tongue of about 7.3 million Canadians (22% of the Canadian population, second to English at 58.4%) according to Census Canada 2011."
Also French takes a capital F in this case (cf. "Capitalization" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalization) :
"Adjectives referring to nationality or ethnicity are not capitalized in German and French, even though nouns are: ein kanadisches Schiff, un navire canadien, a Canadian ship; ein Kanadier, un Canadien, a Canadian. Both nouns and adjectives are capitalized in English when referring to nationality or ethnicity."

Claiming he is the founder of RSI [...]
Your above assertion is False.
I never claimed (or please state your sources) I was the founder of RSI (which would semantically imply I was alone) . I did claim however I co-founded RSI along with Bill Best, Greg, Kangol Kid and the Skeleton.

[...] or the first ever person having coded chess game in asm is just "claiming" as long as he never gives any proofs of what he is claiming.
Your above assertion is False.
I never claimed (or please state your sources) I am the first person to have coded a chess game in assembly language.
I did claim however I was the first person to have coded a (non-forfeiting) chess game in assembly language in a boot sector and in as little as under 512 bytes (as reported by the BBC News).
Later on it could be envisioned I claimed implicitly also being the first person to have coded a (non-forfeiting) chess game in assembly language in 256 bytes or less (as published by 26000 the Hacker Quarterly and Phrack Magazine)

So out of your 3 assertions, 3 (100%) are false.

@wertstahl

I find it interesting though, that there is so much doubt in this topic. Call me a wimp, but i personally would have totally refrained from using or releasing that Brand/Acronym as soon as i faced a bunch of confirmed Members wo are not willing to associate with me. That must feel horrible.

Do not worry, nothing feels horrible wertstahl. This is simply due to the facts that what you refer to as "confirmed Members" came into RSI long after I co-founded it. What you are alluding to are Germans around the 1990 era where once person and one person only claims to have had authorization from either Bill Best, Greg, Kangol Kid and the Skeleton (it sure was not me).
Already in 1990 you can see RSI did not merge anything as seen here in the 1990 BALLLZ BOYZ crack https://youtu.be/cBQke2-225k?t=10s : "Greeting to SCORPION (my co-sysop) ,MAD(greets to White Eagle Fisc,Olivier and SPIRIT!, QUARTEX, PARANOMIA, VF!, TRILOGY DEF JAM, ACC, QUICKSILVER, Rebel,Red Sector,VISIONS and MEGA-FUCKINGS TO A LAMER CAMMED 'THE VIPER'".
Also if you wayback archive what you call "confirmed Members" here : https://web.archive.org/web/20051215000000/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristar_ and_Red_Sector_Incorporated one may read "Not all members from Tristar and Red Sector partook in the cooperative movement that became TRSI."
So unless by "confirmed members" you have a stement by either Bill Best, Greg, Kangol Kid and the Skeleton or myself, you obviously have no clue about what you are talking about and just spreading FUD.
So your above assertion is False.
Again no need to "feel horrible" just because some clueless late user(s) is/are spreading FUD on the Internet in 2016 (cf. SIWOTI).


@magic and some others

Beliebing, believing and so forth... It's not really that important what some believe on this or that subject I have come to admit.
You're all/we're all (myself included) entitled to their own opinions and claims, voicing them and exchanging upon them.
Yet rhetoric above seems more to have to do with Plato's Gorgias dailogue (cf. https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Plato) :
"Then the case is the same in all the other arts for the orator and his rhetoric; there is no need to know the truth of the actual matters, but one merely needs to have discovered some device of persuasion which will make one appear to those who do not know to know better than those who know."
In essence, the arguments in this thread or others on more or less same subject heavily if not solely rely on 1)smears 2)FUD 3)cheap laugh 4)approximations and 5)image memes as "devices of persuasion" which in turn "make one appear to those who do not know to know better than those who know".
This is my belief.

Kind regards
Thanks, Baudsurfer for taking the time and trying to clear that up. Just one last question please: Are the things stated in the original Post of this thread in your view true, or not?
added on the 2016-09-04 17:18:52 by ws ws
... besides, what is the very purpose of this topic in the first place?
Is it to expose the so-called "legacy" of Next Empire using a semi sarcastic tone and show how much Baudsurfer is not legit to release anything under the RSi demogroup?

Again, try harder folks, or please just move on (I suggest the later).
added on the 2016-09-04 17:21:27 by fra fra
fra: The point is, when people talk about the group that was referred to as RSI a long time ago and that practically everyone thought had ceased to exist when it was merged into TRSI, do they mean the same entity Baudsurfer is now operating in and that happens to be given a very similar name by Baudsurfer. It seems that only Baudsurfer wants to think they are the same entity in some way. Currently, the old RSI and the new RSI are both modeled with the same group number 992 on Pouet. The practical consequence of this is that the prods produced by the old RSI and the prods produced by the new RSI are shown on the same page, as if they were produced by the same continually operating group. When in fact it seems that almost nobody thinks this modeling accurately reflects how demoscene people - excluding Baudsurfer - think of the groups.

It's about language and what kind of ideas are being said and implied. Pouet's information model is a sort of a language, and things that are stored in the database are effectively statements expressed in that language. I don't know how it's supposed to work, but I've always thought that Pouet's data TRIES to somehow reflect how Pouet's users think about things. If there are errors, the users are supposed to take action and do something to correct the errors.

Unfortunately the information model is very black and white in that it cannot be used to express uncertain or disagreed-upon things.
added on the 2016-09-04 17:55:46 by yzi yzi
didnt dipswitch actually talk to (at least one) founding member? did he lie? *shrug*
added on the 2016-09-04 18:20:33 by groepaz groepaz
"Bill Best, Greg, Kangol Kid and the Skeleton" sounds like some kind of Saturday-morning kids' TV show.
added on the 2016-09-04 19:31:07 by fizzer fizzer
Quote:
didnt dipswitch actually talk to (at least one) founding member? did he lie? *shrug*


So he (dipswitch) says in another thread: "Not only the oldest German RSI members, IRata and MZP, don't know you, but also the Canadian founder Bill Best, to whom I personally talked to clarify the matter, does not know you. All the other inconsistencies were already lined up by Reed in the respective thread."
added on the 2016-09-04 19:35:10 by Serpent Serpent
Sad thing is that these lies are starting to get duplicated in print, e.g. Sam Dyer's "Commodore Amiga - a visual Commpendium" (pp 267 & 263), suggesting a thirty years legacy of one continous RSI from Amiga until today. So yes, Pouet should be more accurate in this respect, like Demozoo.
added on the 2016-09-04 19:42:01 by noname noname
So, TL;DR:
Sometime in 2008 a person using the handle of 'baudsurfer' appears on the scene, releasing PC sizecoding productions under the name of RSI, claiming to be a co-founder of the original group on C64.

Despite RSI/TRSI being a well-known group with quite a few productions preserved throughout their C64/Amiga history in the 80s and 90s, available through various sources, there appears to be no prior record of any 'baudsurfer' in any of their back catalog. Not in any credits, memberlist, or even a greeting in a scrolltext (nothing from other groups either as far as I know).
And no active oldskool scener today appears to know 'baudsurfer' from back then either.

And despite 'baudsurfer' claiming to be co-founder of the C64/Amiga group RSI, there appear to be no ties between 'baudsurfer' and these platforms. All productions by 'baudsurfer' are released in 2008 and beyond, aimed at modern emulated MS-DOS. Nothing that relates to the platforms that RSI was active on, and also nothing that actually would have worked on machines from the 80s to early 90s, when RSI was active.

So, we are searching for someone who was in RSI in the early days, who can confirm the story, or at least some demo/intro/nfo-file or whatnot, that mentions baudsurfer at all, let alone, in relation to being founder/sysop of RSI.
added on the 2016-09-04 19:51:55 by Scali Scali
***Canadian founder Bill Best, to whom Dipswitch personally talked to clarify the matter, does not know Baudsurfer.***

Original co-founding member my ass.
added on the 2016-09-04 20:04:04 by CreaMD CreaMD
In this light, I think demozoo-approach makes sense... split up 'old' and 'new' RSI. If proof ever emerges, then they can be merged to one RSI. Until then, keep them separate.
added on the 2016-09-04 20:20:38 by Scali Scali
@Baudsurfer: I probably used short paths but you also play on words. You seem to be quick at quoting Wikipedia about Canada and letter capitalization but you can't give proofs that you were co-founder of RSI while at the same time the other known and proven co- founders don't know you either...

Quote:

I did claim however I co-founded RSI along with Bill Best, Greg, Kangol Kid and the Skeleton.


So please don't ask me to state my sources while you don't even apply it to you...


Quote:
... besides, what is the very purpose of this topic in the first place?
Is it to expose the so-called "legacy" of Next Empire using a semi sarcastic tone and show how much Baudsurfer is not legit to release anything under the RSi demogroup?


@Fra: If I were ironic I would say that the purpose of this topic is to show how much Baudsurfer is legit to release under the (c) NEXTEMPIRE enterprise.
added on the 2016-09-04 20:31:30 by Ok3anos Ok3anos

login

Go to top