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Playstation 4 - Xbox 1 demos (neoGAF thread)

category: general [glöplog]
Capped seems like a nice idea. But when you have to buffer, the idea of watching great technical and artistic achievements don't have the same impact.
i was just pointing out that a site which streams 60fps videos (and actually doesnt re-encode them) exists.
watching the stuff realtime should of course always be preferred and be it in an emulator.

and while i agree with gargaj that interactive stuff like "you can wiggle the camera around, but mind that if you do you will probably miss a lot of content" isnt exactly helpful.
but im pretty positive that there are interactive concepts out there that work really great, bonzaj already gave a slight direction (networking being one of them) and also that having interactive elements justifiy the realtime-aspect of a demo a lot more.

still its not "stupid" to do realtime generated non-interactive demos, the target audience is just limited.
added on the 2013-09-24 18:37:10 by wysiwtf wysiwtf
Make demos smaller. Like 4k-64k intros. Don't just stick huge dxt textures into the package, transcode big jpegs into dxt or whatever, compress your vertices (no, you really don't need float3 for everything), make use of multithreading to generate/transcode/uncompress in the background. Consoles would be ideal for this. Not going to happen tho :)
added on the 2013-09-24 20:58:28 by reptile reptile
Quote:
Make demos smaller

Why?
added on the 2013-09-24 21:25:36 by Preacher Preacher
because you can. :D
added on the 2013-09-24 22:17:39 by v3nom v3nom
Quote:
Don't just stick huge dxt textures into the package, transcode big jpegs into dxt or whatever

So should we use DXT or not?!
added on the 2013-09-24 22:39:03 by Gargaj Gargaj
People! Beware! Kotaku is reading this thread :). http://kotaku.com/its-just-a-cool-looking-racing-game-until-things-get-w-1377611 261
Congrats goes to smash for another succesful outreach.
added on the 2013-09-24 22:42:09 by bonzaj bonzaj
Quote:
Make demos smaller. Like 4k-64k intros. Don't just stick huge dxt textures into the package, transcode big jpegs into dxt or whatever, compress your vertices (no, you really don't need float3 for everything), make use of multithreading to generate/transcode/uncompress in the background. Consoles would be ideal for this. Not going to happen tho :)


what smaller? jpeg can be smaller then dxt. png can be better compressed sometimes. and png to raw uncompressed might be needed sometimes for some good detail. and that consoles got a lot of memory. and i heard something about that unified memory stuff. why transcode? you leave that out (?). mem is some virtual shit. scattered af. if that thing would work like it should the transfer is just giving the graphics pipe the surface pointer. it's all igp eating from one mem interface. and afaik. those consoles meant to have system cores "reserved" for capturing footage for our lovely sharing platforms.
added on the 2013-09-24 22:46:06 by yumeji yumeji
bonzaj: reading the commens is sort of disheartening though, but oh well. :)
added on the 2013-09-24 22:57:54 by gloom gloom
I never read any comments. That's something you need to learn over time :). This whole discussion convinced me to watch some of the demos from Function in realtime. And yep - Dead Roman demo really deserves: a) to be watched realtime b) to have a nice rendered version on vimeo ;).
added on the 2013-09-24 23:00:44 by bonzaj bonzaj
Quote:
So should we use DXT or not?!

I'm sure if you try hard enough, you'll understand what i meant :))
added on the 2013-09-24 23:43:32 by reptile reptile
@gloom: That's because of all these "disheartening" comments that the demoscene MUST stay UNDERGROUND ;)
added on the 2013-09-24 23:47:56 by rez rez
rez: I think it's more related to how most articles try to fit the demos into a link that gamers can understand. Using terms like "This looks like a next-gen console game.." isn't really helping.
added on the 2013-09-24 23:52:20 by gloom gloom
@gloom: yes I understand well that, I was joking about our past scenedramas :)

Hopefully some welknown "mainstream" website treats demoscene better: http://www.theverge.com/2012/5/14/3014698/assembly-4k-demoscene-fractals
added on the 2013-09-24 23:57:18 by rez rez
Wow. The commenters on Kotaku are really not digging this. Ps. I don´t think Kotaku reads this forum very often, but someone here did tip them off.. If that was a good thing is still open for debate.
Again, it's not like the Pouet comments were any better.
added on the 2013-09-25 00:27:29 by Gargaj Gargaj
Maybe not, but some guys sounded interested here. And we even got a Kotaku article out of it. I also mailed Eurogamer about this topic, so perhaps more will come. A comment from Sony would be nice. At least I have tried to do my share :)
A comment from Sony about what? No offence, but they really don't have an incentive here.
added on the 2013-09-25 00:38:48 by Gargaj Gargaj
Then why did Sony bring on demo guys to the PS3? That did not work out awesomely, but there must have been a reason. And Sony of PS4 is a different - and hopefully better - beast. Plus, they already have Smash working for them.

Using the demo scene for educating and connecting with new coders, artists and so on seems like a smart thing. Not instantly profitable of course.
"That did not work out awesomely" is a good start for an answer, but as I said before, it's not profitable. A console's success depends on whether publishers are happy, and publishers are happy if they can get a level of exclusivity (which is why the X1 tried to stop indies from being able to self-publish). Given the amount of financial influence they have, I doubt any of the two manufacturers is gonna open up the console. It's a cold hard reality, but again, the console market is extremely money driven - feel free to look up the figures.

And on the flipside, yeah, I'm extremely happy that Smash is getting his props, but as said he's already working at Sony. Pick three more groups who can bring his level of visual quality and we might be on to something. As it stands, it kinda feels like we're trying to ride on his slipstream.
added on the 2013-09-25 01:19:58 by Gargaj Gargaj
Quote:
Using the demo scene for educating and connecting with new coders, artists and so on seems like a smart thing.


I've wondered about this before. The big game companies don't have much incentive to get involved in the demoscene directly, demos don't really offer them anything. Demo coders on the other hand are a good source of people with the kind of skills they need.

It'd make a ton of sense (to me at least) if they got together and sponsored a bunch of demo competitions. Increase the prize money to raise awareness and increase the number of competitors, send a recruiter round to talk to to a bunch of coders. I bet it'd be cheaper than using recruitment agencies and such, with better results.
added on the 2013-09-25 01:48:06 by psonice psonice
psonice: Problem is, most demo coders have a solid job already - the average age isn't what it was used to be.

Demoscene as graphics programming education, on the other hand? I can see how that would work - but now we're venturing into "greater good" territory.
added on the 2013-09-25 01:50:36 by Gargaj Gargaj
Yes, because coders are literally everything that makes a demo sing and dance. Truly the hypnotoads of our generation.
added on the 2013-09-25 01:56:26 by Shifter Shifter
gargaj: true. Perhaps involvement of some well known game companies and a jump in prize money would fix the age issue :) Probably not how we should do that, but hey.
added on the 2013-09-25 02:09:43 by psonice psonice
Well, there was DICE at Revision this year...

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