pouët.net

So I nuked the prod, but I kindof found the discussion itself important.

The questions are open.

1. What makes a prod demoscene relevant?
2. Does the lack of a download link work as a watershed argument for something that should or shouldn't be on pouet?

My (mutable) opinions:

1. The creator's intention.
2. No, lack of actual download for a browser based prod will only annoy librarians (Hi havoc!).

but how does one decide about the creator's intention if he doesnt speak out?

i'd like to elaborate on this but won't due to health reasons

for what i saw, the link wasn't a link to the site itself but to a flash prod

the site itself seems to be the site of a scener, with amiga 2D graphics etc

so...

1) the prod is demoscene relevant if it's made in the context of the demoscene -- context could be "with other sceners" or "meant to be submitted to a party"

2) i don't believe the lack of the download link means a prod is not relevant on pouet -- for instance I don't mind not being able to download a flash demo

then you can base your decision on examples and counter examples

I feel lazy to write again what I wrote on the comments :( I'll try to resume it...

If it looks like a demo, and the user adds it to this site, you can guess the creator's intentions. The demo looked fresh to me, and *was* a nice "newcomer"... if we took it as a first prod was rather cool.

but that's just it - would have including, say, "pouet" in the greetings made that prod demoscene relevant?

Gargaj, I wouldn't speak out if the first comment on my prod was "you don't belong here" paraphrased by a certain conservative Frenchman with about as much social grace as Adok. I have upmost respect for you but I really can't understand why you chose to delete this prod when so many other contentious ones stay...

As I see it, it seems like the demoscene community "accepts" productions on pouet if one or more of the following criteria are met:

1. You release it at a party.
2. You are a member of a demogroup.
3. If you have released something at least once before at a party you can upload it freely as long as it looks "demoish".
4. You're a girl.

1. pretty much what parapete said, if somebody intends to make a demo in some way, then it belongs here. Except where they totally miss the point of the scene of course..

2. No. Where the platform is web based (flash, javascript, whatever), what the hell is the point in a download? It just removes a pointless extra step of saving the file and then opening it in again in the browser. You might as well reject demos for being delivered over the net instead of on floppy disk...

5. you vomit at a party and your buddy has a camcorder
6. you are definitely sure making of an irl remake of counter strike or gta is great

:(

1) the prod is demoscene relevant if it's made in the context of the demoscene -- context could be "with other sceners" or "meant to be submitted to a party"

But all prods are not meant for or released at a party. Quite a few sceners release stuff between parties. Releasing full fledged demos outside of parties is rare but it happens.

p01 > i should have added "etc"

i would get spontaneous pneumothorax as well. i guess there are tensions between a creator's intent on one hand and the general acceptance of a product being demoscene relevant. productions that seek those boundaries are exceptional and therefore must be judged on an individual basis. as for 2. well, pouet is an archive of 'demoscene relevant productions', at least archiving the existence of a particular prod would make sense despite the download link.

Gargaj : unfortunately it's hard to make the difference between "random internet flash thing" (millions of them) and "demoscene flash thing".

There are portals like http://www.flashportal.com/ for the first category and Pouet for the latter. Now, to clearly make the difference, good luck :)

For sure, 4chan flash stuff doesn't belong here, that's a starting point :D (this flash work was not some random 4chan stuff though, that's a good start too)

I didnt see it, but if it looked and smelled like a demo...it probably was. the lines are blurring between newmedia content creation tools and the "old way" of producing compiled exes i guess. it wont be long before all games are played over the net using some strange network based framework. whose to say demos cant move in the same direction?

if i had my way, the line would be drawn at compiled C++ coded demos, nothing beyond that we be considered a "demo". but I guess that's more harmful to the longterm future of the scene.

I think zoom got the demoscene "relevance" right.

so.. is it a girl?

what parapete/hamburgrlr said. again.

flash should be removed as a platform altogether

btw, I just realised who the creator is, and...



this was one of my favourite amiga demos.

ps, yeah why don't you replace it with a Processing category ;)

It should be hosted here if it has actually some demoscene value, not just design wise. With the internet giving more platforms for exposing and releasing creative stuff, I think we as 'demoscene' should be extra aware of *what* we consider scene affiliated.

Else we can also add all the cleverly made youtube animations as 'wilds' and flash games as 'games' etc.

We also don't add machinima productions even though some of these are awesome and very much demoscene inspired. (The stuff blackshark or what was his name did with Trackmania for example).

In short, we should stay pedantic dicks about everything.

i suspect there's another problem too, if somebody posts something that's:
1. not in the traditional 'scene' style (normally a good thing)
2. not on a traditional platform (again normally a good thing)
3. submitted by somebody new or pretty inactive (yep, another good thing)

Put those three positives together though, and people think it's nothing to do with the scene..