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why do most pc cracktros suck?

category: general [glöplog]
raver made me think about it with his comment for the rollcage cracktro by origin:

however i must admit, once and for all ::> PC CRACKTROS JUST SUCK ASS! these guys dont know what style is about.. when you take c64 or amiga intros, they are mostly all great, despite simplicity and non-originality of most, but when you look at PC ones, they are just so damn ugly.. tell me why

so like... what's going on?
added on the 2003-01-30 02:33:28 by reed reed
it's true for 99% of the windows cracktros (except a FEW ones by scienide and razor). but if you look for old dos cracktros, you'll find really beutiful things. for example hetero/sac, his old dos cracktros are magnificent ! there are few ones, on all platforms, who can compete with him in cracktro style. go and check them out, raver and all the others. and i also remember dos cracktros from "the humble guys" and "international network of crackers" from the early 90s as extremely enjoyable. so, don't judge the whole pc history by some butt-ugly windows thingies which are just parodies of real cracktros.
added on the 2003-01-30 02:48:50 by dipswitch dipswitch
pfft...ami cracktros forever ;)
added on the 2003-01-30 06:52:58 by verm verm
cracktroes are cewl

and reed, look up some of the pc cracktroes by fairlight here on pouet, they are among the ones that actually prove your point.
added on the 2003-01-30 08:18:46 by dubmood dubmood
Most people writing cracktros do it because they aren't able to do something bigger like an intro or demo. When I was 15, 16 years old I used to get unlimited leech accounts from bbs's by writing bbstros for them. These ofcourse where all simple and kinda sucked ass but it layed the groundwork for my later demos and intros.

The problem is tho that these guys are making the same effects (like, literally) that I was coding back then. That's goddamn 7 years ago! Cracktros and 4k's used to be platforms of great technical innovation, many new effects showed up in such productions for the first time. I guess people have grown accustomed to that, and when they see these CRAPTRO's (wich they are, I'm sorry to say) they wonder where the design/style/effects are.

So I plea to all cracktro coders: GO CODE SOME GODDAMN DECENT EFFECTS OR LEAVE US THE FUCK ALONE YOU LAZY INCOMPETENT IDIOTS! 1996 IS DEAD AND FOR A GODDAMN GOOD REASON!

oh yeah, and another thing:
OLDSKOOL SUCKS!
added on the 2003-01-30 10:12:25 by Inopia Inopia
I somewhat second Inopia.

Though, the problem is that in the times of good cracktros, a big demoscene hasn't really existed yet. If you liked effect programming on the C64 in the 80s, doing cracktros was like the only way to get attention.

Today, if you're a coder and like doing graphical stuff, you don't do cracktros, you do demos. Cracktros are done by those people who simply aren't good enough.

Second problem: In all those scenes which have nothing but poorness as origin (cracktros, ansi, ascii, chiptunes, hip-hop, graffiti, punk etc), there's a strong movement against ANY innovation. Back in the times there were a few ambitioned people who then defined what "style" has to be (without wanting it) and the rest of the posse just copies and copies and copies. Nobody dares to evolve (somewhat because of the argument above, they're simply not good enough) and if somebody does, everyone else's upset and letting him down.

Just don't watch cracktros, you won't see anything more than scrollers and starfields and sinus sprites, they all are dead since like more than ten years.

added on the 2003-01-30 11:38:05 by kb_ kb_
what dipswitch said. hetero did the best pc-crack intros ever. though some of them were just remakes of older amiga intros .. but show me a crack intro done on the pc that is better than anything that hetero ever did. i'm pretty hard to amaze when it comes to this part.
added on the 2003-01-30 11:56:01 by dalezr dalezr
pc cracktros suck because makers are fucking shitty
uninnovative lamers who just wants leech accounts
for ftps...

and yea. hetero cracktros are good but they're copies
from amiga intros...

and fuck you dubmood and everyone else who is
giving shitty cracktros thumb up
added on the 2003-01-30 13:42:33 by uns3en_ uns3en_
sorry dipswitch i think at least cracktros i have seen
from inc (golden logo with dycp) fucking sucks ass...

added on the 2003-01-30 13:43:58 by uns3en_ uns3en_

Dip, ofcourse i seen enough DOS intros and i must admit, they are mostly better than windows ones, still just like Dalezy said, most of Hetero's intros were remakes of amiga intros, its just that in VGA gfx looks more blocky =) there were more nice DOS intros for sure.. i remember some by Dominators and Hybrid.

ofcourse, people coding intros are often not able to do real demo stuff (like me) or they're just involved in cracking scene rather than demo and mind you, its not less exciting and fun (i am not talking pc warez scene here, after short visit here it seems to be not my cup of tea after all)..

Inopia, its not always about innovation. when it comes to c64 or amiga intros, they are often simple and contain stuff i seen 100000000 times before, yet these manage to hold some kind of lovely atmosphere mostly.. maybe because of being so damn smooth, having a great logo and decent muzik, something 90% PC cracktros lack.

added on the 2003-01-30 13:59:24 by raver raver

this is one interesting point i cant get completely:

Second problem: In all those scenes which have nothing but poorness as origin (cracktros, ansi, ascii, chiptunes, hip-hop, graffiti, punk etc), there's a strong movement against ANY innovation. Back in the times there were a few ambitioned people who then defined what "style" has to be (without wanting it) and the rest of the posse just copies and copies and copies. Nobody dares to evolve (somewhat because of the argument above, they're simply not good enough) and if somebody does, everyone else's upset and letting him down.


ascii and chiptunes origin is poorness?

i think graffiti evolved a great deal, not that it can go much further with number of styles and ways of expression. ofcourse there are traditions just like in the scene but the only limitation is that you actually have to spray.. hip-hop is indeed quite conservative, just like heavy metal, gothic and industrial with their clotching style and stuff.. otherwise, as muzik it went long way evolving as well, compare something like rakim, beastie boys, dj krush, funkstoerung and dmx.. they're all quite different, isnt it? it went commercial too, and as opossite to poorness they are having golden chains, expensive cars and pools full of naked chicks in their videos.

ansi/ascii - can it go any further than it is? there are some limitations, you know. apart from these, there are no limitations. innovate within your 256 symbols as much as you can!

etc..

added on the 2003-01-30 14:12:33 by raver raver

err sounds stupid

ansi/ascii - can it go any further than it is? there are some limitations, you know. apart from these, there are no limitations. innovate within your 256 symbols as much as you can!

what i meant, apart from the limitation of having 256 symbols to build your picture from, you can innovate as much as you like

added on the 2003-01-30 14:14:27 by raver raver
More "logos makers" should be nice too... We need Ra and Niko back!
maybe cracktros could be better with "real" gfx artists :)

Coders please, stop believe you can make gfxs/colors...
added on the 2003-01-30 14:20:47 by kenet kenet
one thing comes to my mind when i read inopia's babbling for example...
u forget about the purpose of cracktros,its not about new awesome effects (tho its always nice when there r some). we have tags in graffiti,we have cracktros in the warez scene.
any attempt to compare cracktros with intros or any real demoscene stuff is just plain silly, aswell as callin cracktros coders a bunch of lamers ffs.grow up.
whole discussion is pointless.
u dont like it ,dont watch it.simple as that.
pliz find yerself a real problem to whine about :)

and as to the pc cracktros...well,thats coz pc is the lamest platform ever :)

stay cool.
added on the 2003-01-30 15:11:13 by blz blz
GO BLZ GO BLZ!
added on the 2003-01-30 16:59:28 by DiJ DiJ
Inopia said:
Quote:

Most people writing cracktros do it because they aren't able to do something bigger like an intro or demo. When I was 15, 16 years old I used to get unlimited leech accounts from bbs's by writing bbstros for them. These ofcourse where all simple and kinda sucked ass but it layed the groundwork for my later demos and intros.

The problem is tho that these guys are making the same effects (like, literally) that I was coding back then. That's goddamn 7 years ago! Cracktros and 4k's used to be platforms of great technical innovation, many new effects showed up in such productions for the first time. I guess people have grown accustomed to that, and when they see these CRAPTRO's (wich they are, I'm sorry to say) they wonder where the design/style/effects are.

So I plea to all cracktro coders: GO CODE SOME GODDAMN DECENT EFFECTS OR LEAVE US THE FUCK ALONE YOU LAZY INCOMPETENT IDIOTS! 1996 IS DEAD AND FOR A GODDAMN GOOD REASON!


You surely got a point saying that cracktros need a big burst of innovation in coding and design. Same effects all over the years, true true...

BUT: To deprive cracktros of the right to exist in the year 2003, just because you (and many others) are not content with their style, is the wrong consequence. Have you ever thought about there's still the same DEMAND for cracktros as there were in the early 90s ? There are still "groups" releasing cracked stuff, and they want to represent too, as their "ancestors" did earlier, so cracktros are required still. The only thing that needs to be changed is, that lousy cracktro coders should retire, and REALLY good coders should step on their place to deliver quality and innovative cracktros. Instead of whining how bad cracktros recently got, you democoders would do a really noble move by giving the wares-scene a helping hand and show them what REAL coding and design is, by doing some cracktros yourselves. Unity of all scenes is the required spirit ! But unfortunately, most democoders either have no interest or are simply too arrogant to do this.
added on the 2003-01-30 17:23:51 by dipswitch dipswitch
"The only thing that needs to be changed is, that lousy cracktro coders should retire"

Better suggestion: the lousy cracktro coders should improve.
added on the 2003-01-30 18:38:49 by sagacity sagacity
BLZ is so very right =)


I also forgot to mention that the best cracktro ever still is the Equinox cracktro for Dynamite Dux on atari =)
added on the 2003-01-30 20:18:56 by dubmood dubmood
sagacity: yeah, that's also a good solution...=)
and dont forget, i meant only the _lousy_ ones, which are plenty, but i don't have ANYTHING against cracktro coders in general.
added on the 2003-01-31 00:05:41 by dipswitch dipswitch
heh when i started this thread i was almost certain that dubmood would be the one to bring group names into the discussion.

and reed, look up some of the pc cracktroes by fairlight here on pouet, they are among the ones that actually prove your point.

yes, there are some cracktros done for flt that do suck donkey dicks, but they're made by x-pression (www.xpression.ca), who have made cracktros for a bunch of groups, including razor.

blz:

its not about new awesome effects (tho its always nice when there r some). any attempt to compare cracktros with intros or any real demoscene stuff is just plain silly

no one said that cracktros should have "new awesome effects" or to be compared with "real" intros. the point is that even if it's supposed to be simple, it could still be stylish. 99% of the windows cracktros these days look far worse than amiga cracktros.
added on the 2003-01-31 00:45:37 by reed reed
reed:
no one said it should have and no on is comparing them with "real" intros...well to my it is what 90% of ppl whine here about
cracktros ruled back in late 80's till mid of the 90's and thats only coz of the fact that demoscene wasnt really much more demanding for the stuff really different from the cracktros.it was just 10 cracktros puted together in demo with 10 parts (c64)
now demoscene went forward and cracktros stayed at the standarts that suits everyone in the warez scene.and whats wrong with that? they just want to give some small informations about their "work".
only demoscene ppl r whinin about it.

yer sayin that it would be nice if it was some stylish stuff...
if this is similar stuff to this one back in mid 90's, how come its not stylish anymore? who sets the standarts for cracktros? demoscene? dont think so :)
the fact that demoscene wants sth stylish (needs it even), doesnt have to mean that some cracktro coder have to spent whole days on a cracktro design.

they just do what suits them and what they need, just like we all r tryin to do (demoscene)

the best way to change sth (if you dont like it) is to make it by yerself.

and names,groups and stuff...lets just leave it for once :)
added on the 2003-01-31 01:26:45 by blz blz
I think the best cracktro made was the one pantaloon coded for DrinkOrDie , it was small, had a nice effect and from what i remeber, they used it quite a few times!!
added on the 2003-01-31 06:14:22 by IZM- IZM-

drink or die, that gotta be russian group =)
are they around still?

added on the 2003-01-31 07:48:28 by raver raver
at least partly american, some members got busted by the police last year iirc
added on the 2003-01-31 07:59:17 by _-_-__ _-_-__

at least it was based in russia while being international but could easy be the people changed 100% as lot of big (illegal) groups are often getting out of hand..

fuck police :)

added on the 2003-01-31 09:03:45 by raver raver

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