What do you want a new Scene.org to be like?
category: general [glöplog]
noname hit it squarely on the head. that's exactly what im talking about.
besides, those open forums probably make people more lazy. why bother doing something good, when you get plenty of attention for doing nothing?
besides, those open forums probably make people more lazy. why bother doing something good, when you get plenty of attention for doing nothing?
and by the way, i'd still want to keep something like the pouet bbs that remains as it is. it can be fun for people (fans or active sceners) to be able to talk shit about the scene or other vaguely related subjects.
all i'm arguing for is the other side - that when those who are active and trying to do something good want to get serious, they have a place to discuss it and try and make it better.
all i'm arguing for is the other side - that when those who are active and trying to do something good want to get serious, they have a place to discuss it and try and make it better.
invite-only boards are great to maintain overall quality over quantity, but they are born to age, i've witnessed that phenomenon so many times for 10 years.
keops: come on, concerning Paniq's last post 'my' pics weren't nasty, Paniq's music is goood and i personally have a thing for zeitmachine. now can we stop talking about myself, i *seriously* don't like that.
keops: come on, concerning Paniq's last post 'my' pics weren't nasty, Paniq's music is goood and i personally have a thing for zeitmachine. now can we stop talking about myself, i *seriously* don't like that.
a work place right next to the kindergarden :)
add a brothel next to them and you get the perfect social lebensraum :-)
... mmm what about the supermarket ?
... mmm what about the supermarket ?
heh the censorship thingie is similarly questioned concerning user-created UT3 mods distributed on Sony-controlled PS3 platform : http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2556/the_unreal_man_mark_rein_speaks.php?page=3
Invite-only may be bit overboard, normal moderated web forums work generally very well. I too would like to see demoscene forums for demo developers sharing their knowledge, ideas etc. in a troll/spam-free fashion. Lately I've spent quite a bit of time on gbadev forums, which work very nicely on this aspect, but only for a limited set of platforms.
As a frequenter of the GBAdev-forum myself, I agree with melwyn. It's a nice forum, a bit too strictly moderated for my taste on some areas, but it all works out fine in the end. I find it amusing how an effective of a community site an off-the-shelf vanilla phpBB installation can be, and I consider replacing the current demoscene.no site with just that.
I'm not for an invite-only policy either, but read-only for newly registered members or something wouldn't be such a bad idea.
Could work if you combine it with the possiblity to loose write status as well.
I recommend a temporary loss of write privileges instead of a permanent one. Everyone screws up every now and then.
I think it's sad that here we are, contemplating on a new forum for our favourite hobby, and instead of the usual things we're thinking about idiot countermeasures. What does that say about our hobby, or us?
That said: a vanilla phpBB forum would probably work well enough, given that it has enough moderators and subcategories/forums (coding, design, music, art, perhaps a newbie/unregistered forum where everyone can post without applying anything). Maybe removing the [IMG]-support would also keep some trolls away.
That said: a vanilla phpBB forum would probably work well enough, given that it has enough moderators and subcategories/forums (coding, design, music, art, perhaps a newbie/unregistered forum where everyone can post without applying anything). Maybe removing the [IMG]-support would also keep some trolls away.
why more forums? we have pouet for the nonserious stuff.. bitfellas for the serious stuff... scene.org forums used to be linked to the newsgroups, ever since they werent they don't seem that interesting anyway. scene.org is the filearchive numero uno for demoscene releases. so.. that core activity should just be facilitated as perfectly as possible (more mirrors perhaps). as said, the only thing the scene misses now was the sceners-archive that ojuice offered.. (personal info+birthdays and crap).. that would be nice to get back somewhere tho. anyone remembers scenet? perhaps scene.org could do smth like that?
I think a more 'serious' scene board would be nice, surely there must be tons of stuff to discuss (scene history, new projects, coding and stuff, trends in design etc. etc.)
Also it would be nice to have several categories unlike the pouet BBS.
However I was under the impression that Bitfellas was supposed to be amied more towards that, but it haven't seemed to really take off so far. Perhaps it is some kind of scene politics that I am unaware of...
Also it would be nice to have several categories unlike the pouet BBS.
However I was under the impression that Bitfellas was supposed to be amied more towards that, but it haven't seemed to really take off so far. Perhaps it is some kind of scene politics that I am unaware of...
I think the problem with bitfellas is that there's too much everything, and it's really not in my understanding geared towards the active sceners, but more towards people who were there Back In The Day. Also, the forums are cluttered (the overview page is horrible) and can not be seen without registering, thus the influx of people is pretty small.
I mean, check out the coding forums. They're totally dead. The PC coding forum has 16 threads that have been posted to during 2007.
I mean, check out the coding forums. They're totally dead. The PC coding forum has 16 threads that have been posted to during 2007.
First, let me say I would really want a board with tech-stuff and no lamer rants and I salute Smash and his crowd for bringing it up. No question about that.
As Preacher points out, Bitfellas has room for everything and that might be a problem for getting people sign up and get comfy: a tech-forum inside BF would maybe feel a little peripherial towards the center of gravity of that site. However, that would be a problem only in the beginning. It's just a matter of getting used to your surroundings, I think.
Which brings me to the other issue: membership / moderation. For practical purposes, I think moderation on a serious board would ensure the quality of the discussions. My example is Doom - he's a demomaker and still he posts like a lamer on pouet. But my guess is that even he will restrain himself in a tech forum. Most people will respect the written and unwritten rules on the board on which they post. For those who don't, moderation and banning would work.
I would still vote for a membership based board, but that's just the elitist wanker I am.
As Preacher points out, Bitfellas has room for everything and that might be a problem for getting people sign up and get comfy: a tech-forum inside BF would maybe feel a little peripherial towards the center of gravity of that site. However, that would be a problem only in the beginning. It's just a matter of getting used to your surroundings, I think.
Which brings me to the other issue: membership / moderation. For practical purposes, I think moderation on a serious board would ensure the quality of the discussions. My example is Doom - he's a demomaker and still he posts like a lamer on pouet. But my guess is that even he will restrain himself in a tech forum. Most people will respect the written and unwritten rules on the board on which they post. For those who don't, moderation and banning would work.
I would still vote for a membership based board, but that's just the elitist wanker I am.
the scene forum #1 right now, where one can have serious discussions and a troll-free vibe, is bitfellas. simply get your asses over there.
seriously, what prevent people from posting tech stuff on pouet ? nothing. Except mental blocking. Or the unfriendly bashing of some of those here who want tech stuff...
we just have to take pouet as a whole, it's fun because it could be both serious and not, there are both ubertalented sceners, sneaky trolls and clueless newbies (not that many actually...), that's scene variety. Why most people don't live with persons of the same sex or same family ? because otherness is what makes life spicy :p
besides i don't remember a lot of tech posts that ended 'vandalized'.
no need to recode the wheel.
we just have to take pouet as a whole, it's fun because it could be both serious and not, there are both ubertalented sceners, sneaky trolls and clueless newbies (not that many actually...), that's scene variety. Why most people don't live with persons of the same sex or same family ? because otherness is what makes life spicy :p
besides i don't remember a lot of tech posts that ended 'vandalized'.
no need to recode the wheel.
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simply get your asses over there.
Maybe they should reconsider the only-registered people idea, I never got interested in that site just for the fact of having to register for reading the forums.
i never really understood bitfellas. people keep telling how nice and scenish it is there but when i look it's like "yeah wow this and that group released a new cracktro do we like it" and nothing really interesting whatsoever. am i looking in the wrong place?
btw guys do you know smallworld the invite-only facebook-like for rich and celeb people only ? :>
i wonder if some sceners around aren't thinking of something like that for the elite of demoscene... and why not ? they could help each other for social and business interests, and leave pouet to a total open state :)
i wonder if some sceners around aren't thinking of something like that for the elite of demoscene... and why not ? they could help each other for social and business interests, and leave pouet to a total open state :)
zest: worried about being left out, are you?
preacher: yep - it's depressing, isnt it. but that's how the internet looks these days, i guess.
however, i'd say the scene has two types of people interested in it: those in it largely because they like making demos - the creators; and those in it because they like to watch stuff and talk about it - the consumers. those are two very different hobbies. (and yes of course there's some overlap - most demomakers like to watch demos as well.)
the people in it to watch stuff are very well served with pouet and so on. that's great. but the actual demo makers arent as well served.
its like the difference between e.g. eurogamer/ign and gamedev.net. we have our eurogamer here, but we dont have our gamedev.net. :) that's not to say people making videogames dont read eurogamer - they do - but that when they want to discuss an issue with their 3d engine, they dont post on eurogamer about it. :)
ive noticed on my trawls around the internet that, unsurprisingly, well known scene coders do pop up on various different forums: gbadev, gamedev, devmaster, beyond3d, gpgpu, ps3dev and so on. talking about code. often related to the demos they are making or have made. and that's when i think to myself - why aren't we all together here? :) it's a bit of a waste to have all this knowledge spread out.
i agree with hyde and skrebbel - i too don't see bitfellas as a "serious tech discussion" site. it's more like the pouet bbs but with an older and slightly more serious crowd, to be honest - full of random general interest topics. it's still a good place to go, but it's currently not a tech discussion forum.
preacher: yep - it's depressing, isnt it. but that's how the internet looks these days, i guess.
however, i'd say the scene has two types of people interested in it: those in it largely because they like making demos - the creators; and those in it because they like to watch stuff and talk about it - the consumers. those are two very different hobbies. (and yes of course there's some overlap - most demomakers like to watch demos as well.)
the people in it to watch stuff are very well served with pouet and so on. that's great. but the actual demo makers arent as well served.
its like the difference between e.g. eurogamer/ign and gamedev.net. we have our eurogamer here, but we dont have our gamedev.net. :) that's not to say people making videogames dont read eurogamer - they do - but that when they want to discuss an issue with their 3d engine, they dont post on eurogamer about it. :)
ive noticed on my trawls around the internet that, unsurprisingly, well known scene coders do pop up on various different forums: gbadev, gamedev, devmaster, beyond3d, gpgpu, ps3dev and so on. talking about code. often related to the demos they are making or have made. and that's when i think to myself - why aren't we all together here? :) it's a bit of a waste to have all this knowledge spread out.
i agree with hyde and skrebbel - i too don't see bitfellas as a "serious tech discussion" site. it's more like the pouet bbs but with an older and slightly more serious crowd, to be honest - full of random general interest topics. it's still a good place to go, but it's currently not a tech discussion forum.
Aren't the demos/graphics/music you've made in a way the currency of the scene, and an interesting "price of entry" ?
yes, if you're fine with it that that'll give legendgrafiX entrance and keep xxx/haujobb out.
what smash said.
and please combine it with the code "dump-site" idea i mentioned.
I will quote myself here, and you can flame me for that.
but the topic itself is too important imho.
hornet code dump example
maybe one could add some user comment thing to it or screenshots..
and please combine it with the code "dump-site" idea i mentioned.
I will quote myself here, and you can flame me for that.
but the topic itself is too important imho.
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What i liked about the old hornet archive and never has been re-done properly up till now:
a commented/rated "dump site" for sourcecode/tutorials/effects.
This is how i got interested in the scene: tons of interesting stuff posted, even with some kind of competition ("wow, check out pascal's new rotozoomer")
Remember MRIs tutorials about texmappers, e.g.?
imho this is also to some extend the reason for lack of newcomers to the scene. You can't learn how to code demo-style on nehe, gamedev, devmaster, whatever. And the current "resources" folder on the server certainly won't cut it.
hornet code dump example
maybe one could add some user comment thing to it or screenshots..
