Where are demos for recent hardware??
category: general [glöplog]
Smash: yeah I surely totally missed the point again, as usual ;)
It's like compo results, if you don't agree with the guys always complaining about the results over and over, it can only be because you missed the point ;)
It's like compo results, if you don't agree with the guys always complaining about the results over and over, it can only be because you missed the point ;)
I'd also like to state that photorealism sucks, and many poor victims of capitalist brainwashing (especially those who play new videogames) have been conditioned to consider photorealism and beauty somewhat interdependent. New hardware makes it possible for you to have more photorealism, and after you have slightly more photorealism you start to consider those games with slightly less photorealism "ugly". It is often very difficult to explain to this kind of people that there is also special esthetics in minimalist, abstract and "low-fi" approach.
BASS!
Cant we all just enjoy everything for what it is? :(
Lets just celebrate our ability to make wonderful things and see where we go with it! Innovation and beauty is a natural thing that isn't platform or hardware dependent. Atari to PC is the same as an artist deciding on pottery or painting (not a good example but use your imagination). I dont think its always the idea of pushing the limits of hardware (even though that is a great thing) but I think to the artist there is alot of aesthetic appeal for that specific hardware. Look at the resurgence of 8-bit and game boys.
I can see the sense in that, but if everyone followed the same guidelines they would all look the same. However, im being difficult. ;)
Lets just celebrate our ability to make wonderful things and see where we go with it! Innovation and beauty is a natural thing that isn't platform or hardware dependent. Atari to PC is the same as an artist deciding on pottery or painting (not a good example but use your imagination). I dont think its always the idea of pushing the limits of hardware (even though that is a great thing) but I think to the artist there is alot of aesthetic appeal for that specific hardware. Look at the resurgence of 8-bit and game boys.
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Fortunately, there are no papers on how to make pleasant/entertaining demos yet...
i think that's too bad actually, it WOULD raise the quality level...
I can see the sense in that, but if everyone followed the same guidelines they would all look the same. However, im being difficult. ;)
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No, I really don't see the message, but I am also quite aware that it might be me that's in the wrong. For example, the whole graffiti-hip hop-street art-MTV thing in itself is totally alien to me.. and I somehow doubt that Stanislaw Lem, mathematical philosophy, Futurism or 80s electropop are your thing :)preacher: it's quite funny.. we do pretty much agree, you know. it should be about the message, not just the medium.
i guess the problem is, you dont see our message (it's carefully hidden below layers of unreadable graf) and i dont see yours (it's lost somewhere along a line fractal) - but thats not to say it's not there. all the demos we've done have a message, a way of seeing the world that's slightly off balance. it's just delivered in a different way, or a way you dont connect with. thats a completely different thing to a demo which is purely there to say "look at my mastery of the hw".
I can try a bit harder though. If that fails, feel free to explain it to me at Breakpoint. The beer's on me ;)
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New hardware makes it possible for you to have more photorealism, and after you have slightly more photorealism you start to consider those games with slightly less photorealism "ugly". It is often very difficult to explain to this kind of people that there is also special esthetics in minimalist, abstract and "low-fi" approach.
Right. But that's basically a question of age and (childhood) experience. People who were born in the 1990s had little exposure to "low-fi", 2d, few-colours-only computer graphics and thus couldn't care less about those -from their point of view- primitive visuals as they don't understand the appeal of it. The real question is: What happens when complete photo-realism is a no-brainer (in say, 10 years?).
Tomaes: People do paint abstract things with real-life methods like watercolor and oils even though some artists strived for photorealism already hundreds of years ago (such as during the Dutch Golden Age).
There's just more choice of tools.
There's just more choice of tools.
Actually, I know many folks who have been born in 1990s and like "low-fi" and 8-bit stuff quite a lot even if they hadn't been influenced by it in their early childhood. And even recent pop music (Timbaland, anyone?) sometimes proves that the "low-fi" kind of esthetics appeals to many youngsters as well.
I would say that the worst time with this "photorealism is the only way" phenomenon was the late 1990s and early 2000s. Now that mainstream computer esthetics has "grown to the age", people have also learned to see some of the different alternatives.
Only ten years ago, for example, the only "valid" excuse for liking 8-bit music was nostalgia. Now there's a big bunch of mainstream people that actually appreciates that stuff just because they happen to like those bleeps and stuff.
However, there are still people who have been stuck to the "late 1990s mainstream computing mindset" and still think that photorealism is the only way to go, and all "low-fi" and non-representative material suck because it reminds them of something "ugly and obsolete".
Only ten years ago, for example, the only "valid" excuse for liking 8-bit music was nostalgia. Now there's a big bunch of mainstream people that actually appreciates that stuff just because they happen to like those bleeps and stuff.
However, there are still people who have been stuck to the "late 1990s mainstream computing mindset" and still think that photorealism is the only way to go, and all "low-fi" and non-representative material suck because it reminds them of something "ugly and obsolete".
in painting it took the mastery of photorealism before artists began to really try different things. :)
I'd say that photorealistic painting became somewhat obsolete due to the invention of photography, so the painters really needed to look for alternatives at the time :)
ah, but non-photorealistic painting came along some time before photography, so thats not a valid argument :)
I'd rather say the mainstream guys being into SID bleeps is simply due to the fact that they're always on the hunt for stuff they can present as the current big thing because the last gib thing is already three months old now. They'll get over it, don't worry ;)
smash, that completely destroys your point, as photorealism in painting was a movement that arised way AFTER the invention of photography, hence the name godverdomme.
Photorealistic painting wasn't made obsolete by the invention of photography. 100% accurate portrait painting is a little pointless of course, but you often want to idealize or romanticize or just paint something that doesn't exist. You can do that with skillz in photorealism but a camera won't help. Photoshop would, though.
when kb starts swearing in dutch, you know he's pissed! :D
And I was about to make that exact point, the only reason why lofi is popular now is because it's being markted to fuck by big corporations (Hot Topic etc). Timbaland and stupid gimmicky NES tshirts are the proof of this, this is a fad and will be over when the next big thing comes around.
And I was about to make that exact point, the only reason why lofi is popular now is because it's being markted to fuck by big corporations (Hot Topic etc). Timbaland and stupid gimmicky NES tshirts are the proof of this, this is a fad and will be over when the next big thing comes around.
kb: bah, we could say "realism" instead but that was an actual movement of it's own. :)
I get your point, I just wanted to contribute some more stuff to this already useless discussion ;)
yea, someone pouetize this fast. please.
done
Photorealism is great, but only for those unable to leave the house and experience actual realism. For demos, lets keep it to photosurrealism eh? And fractals drawn in black lines too, the more styles the merrier (except for styles that I don't personally like, which obviously suck and should be banned from the scene).
psonice: your staying on topic. Shame on you! >:0
bohoo. i have answer for all of you. lets start making demos for consoles like xbox 360. thats all. kthnx bye
I don't really care what kind of hardware a demo requires since I will most probably download the video version anyway. I only care about hardware when I'm making something myself (which is very rarely).
Yeah, video captures rule, with those things even I have been able to follow peecee demos without the usual delay of 5 to 10 years