pouët.net

grip information 2010 glöps

• general:
• level: user
• personal:
• cdcs:
• cdc #1: Deep - the Psilocybin Mix by Carillon & Cyberiad [web] & Parallax
• cdc #2: The real 40k by Lego [web]
• cdc #3: Drugstore by Abyss [web]
• cdc #4: Interceptor by Unit A
• cdc #5: shocked by Shoot

• demo JavaScript eqvalhalla (Lyric Video) by slay bells
• Quote:

  you're the person who not only tries to politicise a piece of art (...) derail any discussion about it and move the goalposts (...) call out the likes of you who would inevitably, compulsively try to detract from (...)
  And you fell for it. Hook, line and sinker (...)

  
  I've read the "no big deal" thread you reference, I find it appalling and I don't doubt there's more of that kind of behavior. I know experiences like that are harrowing lead to ressentiment, because I have my own experiences with violence and physical sexual harassment. It's inexcusable.
  
  And yes, I think a lot about politics, because I believe it plays a very large part in shaping human interactions, both big and small. From abolition of slavery to same sex marriage to two people arguing about the right amount of tip at a restaurant, it all comes down to politics - even certain specific problems on the scene. If that means I took the bait offered, then so be it: I still think this demo has a decidedly political dimension. I provided a framework for my reasoning. You disagree with it, fine.
  
  
  Quote:

  it references a very specific pattern that occurs a lot especially here on Pouet: Someone calls out some shitty thing that happened, and suddenly people that have nothing to do with the whole thing swoop in from the side and complain about "drama"

  
  I've seen several examples here and on other scene fora that I would describe precisely the other way around. There's a pattern of people swooping in to take turns in making the most malicious interpretations possible of something written or created with no ill intent, resulting in a predictably defensive response and the ensuing swift conclusion that yes, this person is a terrible human being after all.
  
  
  Quote:

  And look how nobody made even the slightest attempt at keeping you from doing so (...) the whole "trying to control the conversation" spiel is completely made up. For you it's just a game.

  
  It's completely true that the scene is outspoken, often more so than other venues of discourse. I think that's a good thing and I'd like it to stay that way. Certainly without sexual harassment but also with plenty of space and help and without labeling someone because of their gender, or something as mundane as their inability to express themselves according to an ever more intricate set of rules - rules that are, in my view, very much shaped by politics.
  
  However, let me assure you this isn't "made up" or "a game" to me. You're free to think I'm a raving lunatic who's wrong about exactly everything, but my intention is sincere. I'm not here to troll or post flamebait or derail something for shits and giggles, as the expression goes. Discussions like these take a lot of time and energy for me and I wouldn't spend it if I didn't think these things mattered.
  
  
  Quote:

  So please forgive me if I won't reply to any of the parts that can only be described as years of uncritical ingestion of Joe Rogan podcasts (...) centrist drivel

  
  Some Peter Turchin, some Mark Blyth, some others, but I believe it's mostly Karl Marx. You probably don't care though and I'm not going to address all of your points either, because I think it'd be hard to unlock our positions. I guess my way of processing and understanding the world differs too much from yours.
• isokadded on the 2021-08-02 00:51:17
• demo JavaScript eqvalhalla (Lyric Video) by slay bells
• Quote:

  Ok fine, I'll bite.

  
  Thanks for your reply. I'll certainly try to clarify my standpoint and I hope you'll find the time to read and not necessarily agree but at least better understand where I'm coming from.
  
  
  Quote:

  Nobody claimed it was punk.

  
  I said that's how it's framed and packaged, which makes me think that's the desired association. I think the ressentiment you describe also fits very well with punk.
  
  
  Quote:

  You're conflating "establishment" with societal consensus (...) if they're just pushing already established views, how is it possible to become "the sole judges and jurors" of those views?

  
  It's in any establishment's (as in "ruling class") interest to shape and maintain a societal consensus beneficial to their class interests. If the ruling class is functioning well, this is typically achieved by keeping most ideas from popular consensus and using them as a base for pushing their own agenda. If the resulting narrative is mostly coherent, the parts that benefit the establishment in reproducing as a class will typically be tolerated by the people. If not, there will be various kinds of popular unrest which, if the establishment can't close ranks due to infighting, will often lead to some kind of upheaval. I think what we're seeing in large parts of the west right now (and particularly in the US) is an elite fighting to push their agenda on a weakening popular base, as evidenced by various mass movements of unrest and what is usually called "populism" slicing through the traditional political left-right spectrum; BLM riots, Gilets Jaunes, storming the Capitol etc.
  
  That's what I mean by pushing establishment views: A large chunk of it is something that the vast majority will accept as common sense. Then there's the other part, the sprinkle on top, which I feel is right now taking on far too large proportions: the "linguistic minutiae", if you will - or "woke", as it's commonly called. The basis for this may once have started as popular movements but it has long since been co-opted by the ruling class as a useful tool for social control, gatekeeping and - importantly - resolving conflicts within the upper societal strata.
  
  
  Quote:

  a far right fantasy, as is trying to frame the left as authoritarian

  
  It can be tempting to depict these conflicts as traditional political left/right skirmishes, a "culture war" between E.G. liberalism and conservatism, but the ruling class is mostly in cahoots: it doesn't matter if it's Biden or Bezos, Merkel or Zuckerberg, Bush or Gates - their interests are mostly aligned. The Swedish, feminist, Social Democratic government that puts gender studies directives in pretty much every regulatory document they produce? Yup, ultimately serving the same class interests and opening the door even wider for crony capitalism and further ideological gatekeeping.
  
  I personally subscribe to the analysis that the conflict is mostly material: it's a fight for shrinking economic resources, especially jobs among the upper middle and upper classes with no direct connection to the productive economy. In this scenario, an ever more complex way of not only expressing yourself but also (maliciously) interpreting other interlocutors is an extremely useful tool for doing away with your competition, because there's no inherent logic or ideological robustness to the claims made and the rules can change overnight (cf "Wuhan lab leak theory is racist" vs. "There might be something to the Wuhan lab leak theory").
  
  As such, this type of reasoning is also useful to other parts of the establishment. There's a reason why companies like BlackRock and Amazon - big megacorps with no interest other than maximizing profit - are so fond of adapting this. It's not only great for disposing of in-company critics and staff, it also serves as an excellent way of justifying whatever the hell they feel like doing to push legislation in their favor and exploit workers or natural resources: just frame it in a way that makes the critics look bigoted.
  
  (An aside: In the long run, this can even serve to lock people out of what the ruling class are well underway to establishing as basic infrastructure: If you say something not in line with the currently pushed "consensus", a resulting ban from all Google services might be financially devastating. That's pretty damn authoritarian and not a single law needs to be changed or vote cast - left or right.)
  
  The problem is that this mode of operating is contagious because it's so effective, which means it permeates society on all levels and shows up in places where it doesn't necessarily have any material class interests to serve - such as on the scene.
  
  Now then, with all of this in mind, let's get to the demo. I will pick a few quotes that specifically formed my interpretation.
  
  "I'm not an accessory, your views are outdated/Not a stupid little piece of someone I have dated"
  "Be yourself, ask for help, there is space for everyone/What a claim, what a shame, what a joke that's overdone"
  
  This is something that for me evokes a notion of someone actively being withheld knowledge and space, hence "struggling to make the big leagues" as I put it. I think the authors have plenty of heavy merits that would be very hard, if not impossible, to achieve if there was widespread oppression of this kind: gatekeeping oppressors usually don't upvote.
  
  "Arguments are easy made while others are still bruising" - We decide when and what to argue!
  "A safe space for our self worth is what you now owe to me" - A safe space in current discourse usually means something vastly more ideologically complex than freedom from harassment.
  "You don't get to call it drama when we're calling out the shit" - We are the sole judges and jurors. Don't question us!
  
  On the whole, I think that completely valid and very important complaints about harassment are gradually mixed up and thinned out with similar complaints against people with no malicious intent but who just haven't learned the finer nuances of a discourse designed to be fraught with peril. Speaking of equality and solidarity, such knowledge is, with my rant above in mind, often a good indicator of social class - also by design.
  
  I've witnessed this method here and on Discord (which I then promptly left) and I think the self-appointed arbiters are doing a bad job at discerning one type of behavior from the other. The end result is the type of gatekeeping that may be useful (though destructive) when trying to eliminate the competition for a sweet spot on E.G. an NGO or University board, but something I feel is decidedly detrimental to the cohesion of the scene, where I'm not sure exactly what purpose it might serve.
• isokadded on the 2021-08-01 18:06:46
• demo Amiga AGA Murderous by Floppy
• Not my flavor
• isokadded on the 2021-08-01 14:14:00
• demo Atari STe DHS [not] At High Coast Hack 2021 by Dead Hackers Society [web]
• Kicking tune, classy logo, grade A scene history scrolltext and an effect that just keeps on giving. Top notch!
• rulezadded on the 2021-08-01 13:23:03
• intro Sinclair QL qldrive by SMFX
• Platform thumb! Never quite could wrap my head around the hardware choices going into the QL.
• rulezadded on the 2021-08-01 12:14:07
• demo JavaScript eqvalhalla (Lyric Video) by slay bells
• @psenough I'm of the opinion that nobody should ever be sexually harassed (or indeed harassed at all) while doing anything, even things they don't like - such as working. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of society and sceners agree with this and from what I've seen in E.G. recent Pouët BBS threads the scene - in this case party organizers and chat moderators - have dealt with known offenders accordingly. Although my empathy is perfectly fine I don't have to employ it in this case, having suffered through several similar experiences myself - some of them on demo parties.
  
  I wrote a critique of the overall sentiment of the demo, such as I interpreted it. There's a conflict, yes, but I have a hard time accepting how it's framed and, more importantly, what seems to be the suggested solution. I think the point you make in your first reply is a fair one; my initial interpretation of the demo is that the authors feel held back by allegedly prevailing social mechanisms. Other than that, the replies have so far focused either on something someone else has said, or something I've supposedly said but clearly haven't.
• isokadded on the 2021-08-01 03:54:10
• 256b TIC-80 Sea Foam by Desire [web]
• Trippy indeed!
• rulezadded on the 2021-07-31 20:13:53
• 256b TIC-80 Light Shaft
• Nice surprise in the end. Two scenes make a story!
• rulezadded on the 2021-07-31 20:12:53
• 256b TIC-80 Quantum Flux by HOOY-PROGRAM [web]
• Nicely fluxed quantum
• rulezadded on the 2021-07-31 20:09:52
• 256b TIC-80 Bamboozled by Marquee Design [web]
• 256 byte demo
• rulezadded on the 2021-07-31 20:07:44