pouët.net

it seems we could have quite a debate about what constitutes "content".

yes we could, but rather no as it is very subjective topic.

just for the record, i didn't have any intention to offend anyone's style, it's just that some demos rely too much on completelly different effects which are played sequentally one after another without any connection that links them to a full experience. in this way many of those ideas are just briefly explored and never evolved to their full possibilities.

also, just to remind, coder's perspective was never the same as designer's perspective which was also never the same as musician's perspective. prevailing ANY of this is wrong - in my opinion best demos are made ONLY when ALL aspects get treated equally. and i will always fight for it, because NOWONE will benefit if any of those perspective take dominant role...

i can suggest many demos that prove this point, but for this occasion, i'll pick te-2rb/tpolm and 73millionseconds/pulse - both demos that are old from the dos times but still stays on and produce wow effect even to todays public. which cannot be said for lot of recent 'hit' demos that are already 'old' before people even got to them...

for me, quality demo must win a test of time to really become worthy, therefore i do try to produce demos around values which are not going to become obsolete in a matter of years - this does not mean that great coding skill are still not requered or needed, but to make everything simply a makeup around code is just wrong and boring, at least to myself.

for example 828/fr is a more recent example that shows how good code can be made into great demo with a serious touch of design. also, all of the sqny productions deserve to be put on any compilation - i wonder why is only chromosphere on the mc3, and there are 5 ASD demos, which are, honestly, very similar to each other... and where is 'Beyond the walls of Eryx' for example? that one is really an admirable AND 'scenish', with even the music being digestive if i remember right :)

i'm sorry if i am unable to explain fully my perception of 'content' vs 'fx', today i primarily seek to find a demo and not a megademo. i think those days are past and should be left there. with all due respect.

dominator. I looks to me that the code in 828 and te-2rb are there solely to aid the design and not to be of any real intrinsic value. I am not sure about 73ms since I didn't exist in '98, but the effects does at least not look very advanced for 1998. My point is: It does not look like your examples fully support your claim


Of course, I am biased - I love effects for their own sake. But I also think you might be biased towards design, even though you claim neutrality.

Please add something with my name on the credits so I can get a free disc. Thanks in advance.

I love the visuals in Beyond the walls of Eryx but the music/talking really really rubs me the wrong way -- you either love the music/scene-talking concept or you hate it. I hate it.

I love just about everything else ASD has done, so I'm not a critic of them as a group, but I think this topic is just proof that you can't please everybody all the time.

I just noticed that you will include Frameskool for the 64k section of the DVD but the credits are wrong on your page, it's an Equinox production not Orb, make sure you give the proper credits if you use it ;)

I would have chosen Kings Of The Playground instead but I guess it's a matter of taste and it's your DVD :)

I have a bugfixed and final version somewhere on my HD in case you want a better version.

What? On the internet?! Well, now I've seen everything.

gloom: spare your sarcasm - misbehavior must be corrected; at home, at work, on the internet, in the supermarket, at the pub and around the dinner table. Always! Everywhere!

I will not rest until pouet is free of inconsistent posting! Then, the world is next!

Hyde for global dictator! \o/

I just read this on Trixter's blog:

Now, that's just sad. I know for sure that there are plenty of talented people in the scene who could help with this, so what do you say to that? You mail Trixter and offer your help of course! Yes, you - Monroe, Ra, Pixtur - yes, you guys - come on! :)

my two rather short cents: everyone is biased. both trixter and dominator (among others) keep referring to "the public" and "the people outside the scene" and "non-sceners" like it was one big group of people. newsflash: different people like different things, even if the origin of the thing is completely alien to them.

say it reed. say it like it is.

you tell 'em, steve-dave!

@gloom: We tried to get help for MC2 and nobody stepped up... :-( I have some ideas for menus I want to try; if I fail completely, believe me I will ask for help. Of course, if aspiring people want to create motion menus for Great Scene Glory then by all means contact me.

@reed: Obviously. Which is why the playlist can't possibly please everyone (unless it was 100 entries deep or something)

trixter: If you have some design guidelines, specs on resolution, placement, or a rough idea of how you want it to be, let people know (here for example) so that they can better evaluate if it's something for them. Like: are you planning on advanced animation and such?

Well, the basic idea was to try to mimic some scenes from modern demos but adapted to displaying some sort of menu choices. Not a straight copy (although that kind of parody might be cool too), just inspired by. The main idea I had from a few months ago was the wall of blocks from Stargazer getting knocked down, but the camera would fly only a little bit and settle close to some cubes where you realize you have selections to pick. I have C4D experience that I was going to leverage to try some ideas out.

If you think this idea sucks -- and it very well might -- any and all help is appreciated. Believe me I'd rather have a *real* designer/graphician/modeler/etc. help out, but the last time we asked for MC2 menu help, all I heard was the sound of crickets...

trixter: maybe you didn't yell it loud enough, that's the first time i hear of that desired help. I can help, I'll write you.

the letters "HBC" come to mind.

i'm thinking of asking blackpawn, he's done some amazing 3d render stuff.

I has blu ray playa, playa.

@Gargaj: Yes, but we didn't want to impose. But if you think they're open to it... (I've seen road trip at least 10 times, it's one of my very favorite scene productions)

@barzoule!!! Sure, if you'd like to talk over ideas, mail me @oldskool.org. We posted on pouet five years ago for mc2, maybe nobody cared back then.

@Phoenix: Maybe we can have several submissions or something :) We'll talk privately.

Did anyone mention X-MIX 2004: Ion Traxx by Kewlers & mfx for the disc?
That's a really awesome demo, severly underrated :P
Still looks great today.

I love acid house (that was my crowd before demos), I liked the x-mix tapes, and I really dig x-mix 2004 as a tribute (plus the music is great). But I can tell you it was never considered for mc3 because 1. it's too long, 2. it's too (graphically) noisy, and 3. it's too niche. There are other technical issues, like the sync being variably off all throughout the demo (watch the flashes), and also, even though you can select 1024x768, the demo seems to be at a fixed internal resolution.

For that matter, I wish people would stop inserting noise and chromatic aberration into their demos -- it was a neat trick at one point but it's giving my MP4 encoder nightmares :-)

At least that's a bonus for watching them in pristine realtime.

xer: i like ion traxx, but i have to ask, is it really worth putting a demo that imitates worn vhs tape onto a blu-ray disc? :)