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Does a flash website belong on Pouet? (demoscene relevance notwithstanding)

category: general [glöplog]
Goddammit Gloom, how high *is* the horse you're on? This whole discussion is fucking retarded and it's really easy to see when something is demoscene related or not.

- Production made by known scener/scene-affiliate that looks somewhat demoish? Related!
- Production is made by creative designer from the states, looks somewhat demoish but has no reference to the scene? Not Related
- Flash movie collecting all internet-memes into one? Not Related
- Timbaland's new music video which features a tunnel? Related.
added on the 2009-01-15 14:00:54 by okkie okkie
Most important, the platform it's on doesn't matter at all! Booyah bitches

<awesome guy snipe>
added on the 2009-01-15 14:01:36 by okkie okkie
most reasonable people can agree that weebl&bob or badger badger mushroom are not demos and dont belong on pouet, and second reality is a demo and does belong. then there are a huge number of shades of grey in between which are open to argument and everyone has their own line on, and about which its going to be impossible to agree.

i agree with gloom though on the point, "the people who make demos get to define what demos are, onlookers do not". if people start making good things in whatever forms and calling them demos, then the definition will change. at least this flash stuff is arguably closer to the original definition than e.g. the ohp "demos" at buenzli, for example. :)

anyway, you are all forgetting that pouet != scene. therefore acceptance into the pouet database does not depend on adherence to some criteria (that nobody agrees on) about if it's a demo/"scene release", but merely what the admins deem suitable on a case by case basis. hah. end of discussion. :)
added on the 2009-01-15 14:02:25 by smash smash
as long as pouet doesn't turn into a 4chan, flashheaven, processing, showreels.. then ok.
added on the 2009-01-15 14:09:23 by neoneye neoneye
@stjin: I think TPOLM *is* demoscene-related.
Nevertheless, would you guys stop acting like the European Union?
added on the 2009-01-15 14:10:51 by decipher decipher
wise & balanced statements :)

and those TPOLM gems are totally demos to my eyes even if hypothetically they had been made by an unknown guy, because they are simply awesome technically and artistically, and such non realtime exe aren't that common, they are real achievements. If the complexity of the visuals justifies the non realtime rendering, why not more :)
added on the 2009-01-15 14:12:37 by Zest Zest
and those TPOLM gems are totally demos to my eyes even if hypothetically they had been made by an unknown guy

you just won a trip to clueville! congratulations!
actually those are the cousins of the procedural gfx compos... and i deeply hope these will be acknoledged by the upcoming scene.org awards :P
added on the 2009-01-15 14:15:35 by Zest Zest
Decipher: that's what I'm saying. The group is, but those productions aren't (apparently)
added on the 2009-01-15 14:18:20 by stijn stijn
Lets add all flight404 works then! I think he has heard about the demoscene once or twice, he must be a demoscener. But look how cool his works are! They must be demo prods, otherwise they won't be that cool.
added on the 2009-01-15 14:18:29 by mrdoob mrdoob
maali: i said *if*, *hypotherically*, and the english grammar isn't as refined as french to underline the fact that the hypothesis wasn't true.

of course i know those are made by statix, the LBP star :p
added on the 2009-01-15 14:18:54 by Zest Zest
i'm always baffled by the amount of noise any random subject gets out of you :)
actually i was so triggerhappy that i missed the whole hypothetically part of it.. so.. too bad, the trip to clueville is MINE! anyway, didnt this discussion also happen when 3dmark2000 got added? or when linger in the shadows got added? or when whathisname added his (commercially intended?) texgen? or when someone added visual studio as demotool? i mean, did we progress? :)
*boom, guardian... you're down!*
gloom, the outreach comment was meant as harmless banter as I fully agree that watching a Flash demo in isolation probably doesn't convey much about what the scene is at its core. Furthermore I agree that it's good that people have different opinions - a community where everyone agrees would be unhealthy. However, when people (especially people who actively try to introduce the scene to newcomers) start asserting strange and apparently arrogant opinions about what they think demos should be, that's not so good. So...

First, I cannot understand the bias in calling it a "website" or "animation". Do you resent the fact that it's realtime?

While there is of course absolutely nothing wrong with making a video version of your demo and putting it online, or making online versions of it afterwards, for it to be a demo it should at some point have been a self-contained executable.

Right, but what you have here is an online version of the actual demo. What you're implying is that something is only a demo if it's realtime AND fits in with your strange view that it needs to be archivable in your neat little library.

the people who make demos get to define what demos are, onlookers do not.

"people who make demos" = only your chums I'm guessing. What about the demoscener (look at his website) who made the demo in questsion? I take it his (implied) intention counts for nothing then.
Basically, if it doesn't have drumnbass or any other breakbeat centered soundtrack, it's not a real demo!
added on the 2009-01-15 14:27:19 by okkie okkie
guardian: let me sum up my own noise before going back to work :

the more people extend the definition of demos and demoscene by their skills and creativity, the better :)
added on the 2009-01-15 14:27:24 by Zest Zest
that's indeed more pleasant to read!
pete: i admit that i might have been a fair bit too fast with gunning the prodpage down - again, if he would speak out, we would have a much better chance deciding whether he just used pouet as newgrounds or not.

in fact, let me send him a mail.
added on the 2009-01-15 14:31:13 by Gargaj Gargaj
maali: the texgen thing is mine. i have asked for removal to not cause more trouble, but for some reason its still there. sorry
added on the 2009-01-15 14:32:17 by neoneye neoneye
want me to nuke it?
added on the 2009-01-15 14:35:10 by Gargaj Gargaj
added on the 2009-01-15 14:35:51 by neoneye neoneye
neoneye: ah right. dont be sorry, i just used it as example to express the originality of these debates on demoscene relevance.
it had greetings though :-)

added on the 2009-01-15 14:40:40 by neoneye neoneye
added on the 2009-01-15 14:43:56 by Gargaj Gargaj


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