my own thread
category: general [glöplog]
Calexico : just when I thought "at last, a post without a single typo, that's a first !".
But no... :'(
But no... :'(
haha, I thought that was intentional :)
ok, i fell for it.
@iq: you think of debris like 'yet another cube demo'?
[quote]And that includes ribbons ! :D [quote]
Hey, I hope it includes perlin noise too! (cause if I even do a non abstract thing again that will be more perlin terrains for sure!) For the rest, I agree too, not everything is gpu-gems copy and paste, that's why this is called demoscene and not siggraphscene.
Hey, I hope it includes perlin noise too! (cause if I even do a non abstract thing again that will be more perlin terrains for sure!) For the rest, I agree too, not everything is gpu-gems copy and paste, that's why this is called demoscene and not siggraphscene.
ouch!
@winterniels: I don't think you should be speaking about something being easy to do or not. Still waiting for your nvision demo. :P
And no, don't even compare the abstract 3d meshes of your demos with the abstract stuff I'm putting here, these guys spend a lot of hours looking for original abstract aesthetics. Not just extruding a mesh and tessellate it a bit ;)
And no, don't even compare the abstract 3d meshes of your demos with the abstract stuff I'm putting here, these guys spend a lot of hours looking for original abstract aesthetics. Not just extruding a mesh and tessellate it a bit ;)
Quote:
nvision demo
trace, now i'm 100% convinced about that "loving you" thing :)
trace: i'll be dead honest and the first to admit that somehow when i started working fulltime i lost the heart and spirit (and with time, contemporary know-how) to make a good demo.
it frustrates me to this very day. the pc is nice though :) maybe some day.
wasnt trying to offend you.
it frustrates me to this very day. the pc is nice though :) maybe some day.
wasnt trying to offend you.
hm... perhaps I should say it again.
we know that Trace, they really put their brain into it. You (probably) know I like (even consume) abstract creations quite a lot (not in the form of interactive art though). But what I think is that we as demosceners, when "importing" those ideas/styles, we should be able to bring something else to it, at least visual quality and richness (weren't we so proud of being a community into computers, tech, art and graphics?). Just as we learn from artists who spend really long time thinking on their concepts, we do usually learn too from siggraph (those people do spend also lot of time too). And in the same way as I find my abstract art in theaters while I keep expecting some added value from demoscene, as Keops pointed out the opposite is equally true; when borrowing those techniques we have the responsibility to do something more than just a gpugems demo.
Basically, going back to my very first post, I think those guys out there doing interactive art would probably benefit from the technology we have (borrowed perhaps from siggraph). We are in the middle of both worlds, and we should be able to combine them, not going the easy way (art without tech, tech without concept, there are other scenes for that). Now that I say it like this it seems I'm saying the obvious, but perhaps it's not the case, otherwise this discussion would have not happened!
Also I know diplomacy is not my thing, and I often have a too sharp tongue. Long like to cubes, sharp, chamfer, or hyperdimensional.
we know that Trace, they really put their brain into it. You (probably) know I like (even consume) abstract creations quite a lot (not in the form of interactive art though). But what I think is that we as demosceners, when "importing" those ideas/styles, we should be able to bring something else to it, at least visual quality and richness (weren't we so proud of being a community into computers, tech, art and graphics?). Just as we learn from artists who spend really long time thinking on their concepts, we do usually learn too from siggraph (those people do spend also lot of time too). And in the same way as I find my abstract art in theaters while I keep expecting some added value from demoscene, as Keops pointed out the opposite is equally true; when borrowing those techniques we have the responsibility to do something more than just a gpugems demo.
Basically, going back to my very first post, I think those guys out there doing interactive art would probably benefit from the technology we have (borrowed perhaps from siggraph). We are in the middle of both worlds, and we should be able to combine them, not going the easy way (art without tech, tech without concept, there are other scenes for that). Now that I say it like this it seems I'm saying the obvious, but perhaps it's not the case, otherwise this discussion would have not happened!
Also I know diplomacy is not my thing, and I often have a too sharp tongue. Long like to cubes, sharp, chamfer, or hyperdimensional.
Quote:
What? Dude, you're the most laidback and in-stuckup person I know :)I often have å too sharp tongue
I norwegianized the quote while I was at it :)
Bah. "UN-stuckup" of course. Good night, and don't forget to tip your waitress.
@iq: I agree with you on that. However, seeing destop, pixtur, unc, rainmaker (some times)... output... I think the demoscene still offers very cool (not only technical) stuff.
Oh, and don't forget this!!.
Oh, and don't forget this!!.
big ups to iq. and again, trace, wasnt out there to offend you. i like geometric semi-mess too :)
borrowing? i'm not one of those frontline coders giving talks at siggraph (i'm too average for that) but i for sure know what the demoscene has it's nose more and more up the graphical coding industry's butt. in fact, most gifted graphics programmers i know in the game industry are sceners/ex-sceners.
all that aside: give me a byterapers dos demo and i cant stay in my seat :)
Quote:
borrowing those techniques we have the responsibility to do something more than just a gpugems demo.
borrowing? i'm not one of those frontline coders giving talks at siggraph (i'm too average for that) but i for sure know what the demoscene has it's nose more and more up the graphical coding industry's butt. in fact, most gifted graphics programmers i know in the game industry are sceners/ex-sceners.
all that aside: give me a byterapers dos demo and i cant stay in my seat :)
Don't hassle the cube! It has a rich combinatorial structure and at the same time, all the topological qualities of a sphere. The combination makes it powerful enough as a building block that it is fully possible to create images that tickles the mind in all the ways you want.
The surface of a cube is one of those rare shapes that displays it's structure of a combinatorial 2-dimensional complex so that anyone who sees it can recognize bits of it. Raise the the "Platonic complexity", and your sure to loose some viewer's interest. I genuinely believe that the human mind has a fetish for the sensation of "space". When displaying a cube, what you really do is to produce the simplest possible representation of all three axis of 3-dimensional Eucledian space, which connects directly to our perception. But now you say "ah, but there you go! -- you admit that it is the simplest possible choice." My answer to that is that as long as we cannot render cubes properly, I see no strong motivation to move on. The combinatorial possibilites are far from exhausted.
Another point is that demos to me are most interesting if they convey something genuinely realtime. Since magic doesn't always exist, the biggest wow-effects are done by taking advantage of some specialized quality of whatever you're trying to render. If you happen to love the cube, you're in a much better position to do something which looks cool, is realtime and has value in itself regardless of what the art-, offline renderers- and game-community might think of it.
What I want to say is that if you claim the cube is childish and is the hallmark of un-inventiveness, it's because of personal taste and not because you carefully thought it through and arrived at that conclusion.
The surface of a cube is one of those rare shapes that displays it's structure of a combinatorial 2-dimensional complex so that anyone who sees it can recognize bits of it. Raise the the "Platonic complexity", and your sure to loose some viewer's interest. I genuinely believe that the human mind has a fetish for the sensation of "space". When displaying a cube, what you really do is to produce the simplest possible representation of all three axis of 3-dimensional Eucledian space, which connects directly to our perception. But now you say "ah, but there you go! -- you admit that it is the simplest possible choice." My answer to that is that as long as we cannot render cubes properly, I see no strong motivation to move on. The combinatorial possibilites are far from exhausted.
Another point is that demos to me are most interesting if they convey something genuinely realtime. Since magic doesn't always exist, the biggest wow-effects are done by taking advantage of some specialized quality of whatever you're trying to render. If you happen to love the cube, you're in a much better position to do something which looks cool, is realtime and has value in itself regardless of what the art-, offline renderers- and game-community might think of it.
What I want to say is that if you claim the cube is childish and is the hallmark of un-inventiveness, it's because of personal taste and not because you carefully thought it through and arrived at that conclusion.
@Hyde: That's plain heretic! Every true demoscener knows that the perfection resides in the Tetrakis-Hexahedron!
Well, Menger sponges are nice too. ;)
Well, Menger sponges are nice too. ;)
Cubes!
Quote:
@iq: I agree with you on that. However, seeing destop, pixtur, unc, rainmaker (some times)... output... I think the demoscene still offers very cool (not only technical) stuff.
Yep. We also offer very cool (non artistic) stuff (see archee and it's 4ks).
But neither of the two extreme cases makes us any different from the artscene or the gamedevscene. I mean, I guess what I try to find is what is our identiy (related to what we were discussing few days ago in another thread here in pouet). What makes us different from the art scene... that they use java and we use c? What makes us different from the siggraphscene, that they use teapots/dragins/standfirBunnies and we use cubes/torii? I guess I'm suffering some sort of demoscene-identiy crisis.
Btw, can we post pictures to your thread too, or do we have to pay a fee?
@iq: As I stated on the first/introduction post. Yes, anyone can post anything (pictures included), as long as they follow the lines of the thread :)
![[self-ban]](https://content.pouet.net/avatars/zulthoofd.gif)
"German artist Gregor Schneider stands in front of his Cube art work in Hamburg, northern Germany. The cube, inspired by the Kaaba in Mecca, was rejected earlier by the cities of Venice and Berlin, due to doubts on the work's political correctness"
So cubes are politically incorrect now :)