C++ a wicked language
category: code [glöplog]
Since the oneliner ate all of my text and I also strangely feel not exactly balanced now, I decided to open another silly topic.
But it has to do with something serious I thought, when my friend was debugging a programm for the university and I couldn't prevent myself from sleeping..
C++ is a mess. I mean everything, even the fact that it is dominant out there and we have to follow the standards! ;P
It is supposed to be an abstraction, where you can do everything you want by using ready libs which do all the stuff without knowing what's going behind the system, afteralls it's very chaotic, and at the same time it is supposed to be more close to assembly than other HL languages and you can also code OOP, while everybody has told me a diferrent explanation of what OOP actually is and neither have I understood exactly and why is needed, nor had I the mood to get started with it except because I have to since it is the standard. And then it's a mix of the new elements and the old that stayed from the plain C, diferrent confusing syntax, -> and . which are supposed the same OOP thing, but didn't understood their diferrence and other silly things!
Don't get me wrong, I like basic! It's so simplistic, and then everyone says it's not a high level language, because it's a low level thing! But then HLs are the ones who are more close to the user and away from the real system, but C++ is supposed to get more close to the PC because it has these virtual pointers, but it's really a chaotic mess and you never get really into the system...
...they are closing me :(
Tomorrow, I mightl loggin in this thread and wondering what the hell I was writting about;;;
I have lost control, but C++ has lost too. It's a wicked thing for me..
But it has to do with something serious I thought, when my friend was debugging a programm for the university and I couldn't prevent myself from sleeping..
C++ is a mess. I mean everything, even the fact that it is dominant out there and we have to follow the standards! ;P
It is supposed to be an abstraction, where you can do everything you want by using ready libs which do all the stuff without knowing what's going behind the system, afteralls it's very chaotic, and at the same time it is supposed to be more close to assembly than other HL languages and you can also code OOP, while everybody has told me a diferrent explanation of what OOP actually is and neither have I understood exactly and why is needed, nor had I the mood to get started with it except because I have to since it is the standard. And then it's a mix of the new elements and the old that stayed from the plain C, diferrent confusing syntax, -> and . which are supposed the same OOP thing, but didn't understood their diferrence and other silly things!
Don't get me wrong, I like basic! It's so simplistic, and then everyone says it's not a high level language, because it's a low level thing! But then HLs are the ones who are more close to the user and away from the real system, but C++ is supposed to get more close to the PC because it has these virtual pointers, but it's really a chaotic mess and you never get really into the system...
...they are closing me :(
Tomorrow, I mightl loggin in this thread and wondering what the hell I was writting about;;;
I have lost control, but C++ has lost too. It's a wicked thing for me..
hi optimus
are you at irc?
are you at irc?
hi optimus
are you at irc?
are you at irc?
good smoke mate?
Optimus: the fact tha you don't know C, C++ or what is OOP doesn't mean that these things are a mess. Stop making a fool of yourseelf speaking about things that you do not understand....
stick with basic please, it suits you fine, just stop telling us your fucked up opinion about everything else....
btw 1) basic is a high level language, not a low level language, you got it all mixed up. the level has to do with how close it is to the machine not how powerfull it is...
2) . and -> have nothing to do with C++ and OOP they are coming from C.
3) no such thing as "virtual" pointers.... where did you hear that?
stick with basic please, it suits you fine, just stop telling us your fucked up opinion about everything else....
btw 1) basic is a high level language, not a low level language, you got it all mixed up. the level has to do with how close it is to the machine not how powerfull it is...
2) . and -> have nothing to do with C++ and OOP they are coming from C.
3) no such thing as "virtual" pointers.... where did you hear that?
Ah, Optimus, you just made my day =)
C++ isn't a mess, it's a language. i suppose it'd be the to say that the greek language is a mess because it doesn't use the latin-charset that most of europe is using.
ahah, nice laugh optimus :)
new programming languages are always a nice thing to learn..
learn something completely different like declarative languages(prolog) or functionnal ones(lisp, haskell or scheme) and you'll realize that c++ or even java are actually not that far away from c or even that thingy called basic =)
new programming languages are always a nice thing to learn..
learn something completely different like declarative languages(prolog) or functionnal ones(lisp, haskell or scheme) and you'll realize that c++ or even java are actually not that far away from c or even that thingy called basic =)
c++ is an abomination.
well, the main problem with C++ is that it's simply too big. Java, Eiffel or Smalltalk - to mention some other OO-languages - are a lot more simple than C++,
so it hasn't got anything to do with C++ being OO or an HLL or whatever.
so it hasn't got anything to do with C++ being OO or an HLL or whatever.
The only problem with C++ is the C backwardscompatibility wich allows so fucking ugly and 'unsafe' code... otherwise its nice.. And Optimius ugly.
Well, I have learnt some C (not C++) at my vocational school during education 2 years ago. I wouldn't claim that I know still anything about it, since I have never used C since.
I was so happy that in my vocational school exams, they haven't had any coding questions to answer or any code to write.
On the other side, I have been very sad, that this year, the exams didn't contain any English stuff to work with (unless previous exams, where they have had always English letters, phone call, etc in).
But I wouldn't call C a low language for kids or such. Even if it was invented in the 70s, it's still quite common!!!
So, I agree here with the most of the other people.
All the best!
Bye!
Joerg
I was so happy that in my vocational school exams, they haven't had any coding questions to answer or any code to write.
On the other side, I have been very sad, that this year, the exams didn't contain any English stuff to work with (unless previous exams, where they have had always English letters, phone call, etc in).
But I wouldn't call C a low language for kids or such. Even if it was invented in the 70s, it's still quite common!!!
So, I agree here with the most of the other people.
All the best!
Bye!
Joerg
Optimus: In a sense you are right. C++ is somewhat messy because it wasn't designed to be clean. It is a multiparadigm language, allowing you to utilize many programming styles from old fashioned structured to objective or functional.
On the contrary, languages like Java (objective) or Haskell (functional) are designed to implement only one programming paradigm in a clean way, which allows you to better understand the language. But on the other hand it limits your freedom in choosing the most suitable coding style for the task you are dealing with.
It takes time to get used to C++, but the effort involved is usually worth the headache. But I don't pretend that C++ is the ultimate language, for many tasks I would prefer a scripting language like Perl, or functional like Haskell. Nor is C++ mainstream, to my knowledge employers seek mainly for people programming in Java.
On the contrary, languages like Java (objective) or Haskell (functional) are designed to implement only one programming paradigm in a clean way, which allows you to better understand the language. But on the other hand it limits your freedom in choosing the most suitable coding style for the task you are dealing with.
It takes time to get used to C++, but the effort involved is usually worth the headache. But I don't pretend that C++ is the ultimate language, for many tasks I would prefer a scripting language like Perl, or functional like Haskell. Nor is C++ mainstream, to my knowledge employers seek mainly for people programming in Java.
I always knew (but for slightly different reasons).
- eagle, using delphi
- eagle, using delphi
Don't go chasing waterfalls, please stick to the rivers and the lakes that you're used to ;)
one can write messed up java/basic/pascal and one can write clean C/C++/ASM.
it's just a matter of coding stlyle...
(not to mention that we have different ways of thinking about "clean" and "messed up" code...)
it's just a matter of coding stlyle...
(not to mention that we have different ways of thinking about "clean" and "messed up" code...)
Nor is C++ mainstream, to my knowledge employers seek mainly for people programming in Java.
Rofl. It can't get more "mainstream" than c/c++.
Rofl. It can't get more "mainstream" than c/c++.
Optimus: look forward to achieve a meeting with the worlds famous green and yellow mutant camels. They will arrive at your place in a mercedes benz to fulfill every of your needs and questions about the next WatcomBasic. But beware if they look angry it can be that they eat sushi and if you don't have sushi they will eat every computer they find by rolling it into smal peaces and doing weird music at the same time. These music is so powerful, that it can be that it blasts of your eggs in the refridgelrator. I think its easy, but have never thought about it. But if you like computers, why don't write in the language which is best for your purposes? For demos is C++ (?and Assembler) the best choice that I know. Ok well never thought about cobol.
c#!
i mean pieces and off and so on....
is c# a possible solution for demos?
dunno
is c# a possible solution for demos?
dunno
c++ is WICKED! COBOL IS THE WAY (or fortran for that matter.. )
gehgehgeh
gehgehgeh
C++ is wicked, Asm is the real scener's choice ;)
C++ is underground, Tomaes.
Objective C anyone?
the cool thing about c++ is that you can code a 64k intro with it and also code an intro-tool with 1.5MByte source with it. and even share the source between the two projects!
I hate C++, but it works. I don't know anything better, and most changes i'd like to suggest would make the language worse in another place.
"multi paradigm" is a real cool thing. pascal, eiffel, c#, java, haskell - they all want to tell you which coding style rules. c++ leaves that choice to you, and i suppose most language designers didn't had 64k intros in thier mind.
Optimus: maybe you should get the stroustrup book (the c++ programming language), third edition (or special edition). oh, and coding IS hard...
P.S.: OOP is dead anyway, sometimes it just has to be #define.
I hate C++, but it works. I don't know anything better, and most changes i'd like to suggest would make the language worse in another place.
"multi paradigm" is a real cool thing. pascal, eiffel, c#, java, haskell - they all want to tell you which coding style rules. c++ leaves that choice to you, and i suppose most language designers didn't had 64k intros in thier mind.
Optimus: maybe you should get the stroustrup book (the c++ programming language), third edition (or special edition). oh, and coding IS hard...
P.S.: OOP is dead anyway, sometimes it just has to be #define.
