Demoparties & the web & you
category: general [glöplog]
ok next random think session, pouët tank style! feel free to flame or answer seriously :)
demoparties have always been the backbone of the demoscene, along side with websites for 10 years.
it has become obvious that parties need a virtual counterpart on the net before the event (mainly to promote it), during (mainly to bring a bit of the party to the lazy/cheap people through irc and livefeed) and after (mainly to show and promote the proud productions).
i think that this part is still underused and could help demoparties a lot more, but of course it need people, time and funds...
so :
1) would you open the compos to remote entries on a bigger scale ? has it been successful at the last buenzli/main parties, did it bring too much work for the orgas ?
2) would you open the vote to webvotes ? with a weight differential ? based on which ratio ?
3) would you be willing to pay a few euros through paypal to get a stable livefeed, and why not, to be able to remote vote ?
4) would you like more standalone theme-based web compo like the famous TMDC or Xmas compo ?
5) would you like more or less web compos based on a corporate sponsor theme ?
6) would you like pouët to cover all the compos from demoparties, to be an exhaustive frontend of all scene.org releases ? that would mean a pouët for music releases and a pouët for gfx ones...
7) why not organizing a web compo before the party event to promote it, based on a theme and maybe on some collaborative mechanism, the final results could be shown at the party
8) why not introducing an interactive live compo where net participants bring their input through commands, texts, photos, colors, forms... to build a global noisy/messy piece of art ? :D
9) is it possible that demoscene.tv harbors the livefeeds of smaller demoparties whitout their tv crew present at those ?
0) your question
demoparties have always been the backbone of the demoscene, along side with websites for 10 years.
it has become obvious that parties need a virtual counterpart on the net before the event (mainly to promote it), during (mainly to bring a bit of the party to the lazy/cheap people through irc and livefeed) and after (mainly to show and promote the proud productions).
i think that this part is still underused and could help demoparties a lot more, but of course it need people, time and funds...
so :
1) would you open the compos to remote entries on a bigger scale ? has it been successful at the last buenzli/main parties, did it bring too much work for the orgas ?
2) would you open the vote to webvotes ? with a weight differential ? based on which ratio ?
3) would you be willing to pay a few euros through paypal to get a stable livefeed, and why not, to be able to remote vote ?
4) would you like more standalone theme-based web compo like the famous TMDC or Xmas compo ?
5) would you like more or less web compos based on a corporate sponsor theme ?
6) would you like pouët to cover all the compos from demoparties, to be an exhaustive frontend of all scene.org releases ? that would mean a pouët for music releases and a pouët for gfx ones...
7) why not organizing a web compo before the party event to promote it, based on a theme and maybe on some collaborative mechanism, the final results could be shown at the party
8) why not introducing an interactive live compo where net participants bring their input through commands, texts, photos, colors, forms... to build a global noisy/messy piece of art ? :D
9) is it possible that demoscene.tv harbors the livefeeds of smaller demoparties whitout their tv crew present at those ?
0) your question
0) why don't you make a demo about it ?
1) why not. especially the smaller parties usually don't have that many entries anyway, and longer compos = more entertainment
2) no
3) no
4) not really, I prefer seeing own product on bigscreen
5) no
6)
7) it already kinda exists (gamedev @ asm), for smaller/fun compos could work nicely
0) what is pouet?
2) no
3) no
4) not really, I prefer seeing own product on bigscreen
5) no
6)
7) it already kinda exists (gamedev @ asm), for smaller/fun compos could work nicely
0) what is pouet?
Quote:
it has become obvious that parties need a virtual counterpart on the net
Lively has it! I haven't been since my last vacation, but we have a Breakpoint substitution there! :P
this is the most confusing scene poetry ever :(
0,1) virtuality is provided by pouet.net already ;
give weight to your acts, go to that damn demoparty and hug your friends.
give weight to your acts, go to that damn demoparty and hug your friends.
indeed shadez i was thinking of the asm gamedev compo example, first i was like wtf? when i saw the links to download the gamedev prods before asm any started, but at the end it makes people play them during the party and starts the party before the real event even for those who don't bring any prod :)
1) Yes, opening the compos more for remote entries would be nice especially when there's some not-so-usual compos.
2)No, I wouldn't open web voting for party compos. Voting is the right of the visitors even though I hardly ever vote in compos (web or party) myself unless it's obligatory.
3)Why not? It sounds fairly reasonable.
4)Hard to say. The compo needs to be something special like TMDC.
5)Less, there's no doubt about that! I am not a fan of NVScene and Intel Demo Competition type more or less hardware manufacturer-centered compos. Old hardware is a different story.
6)No, the staff of pouët has to deal with a lot of stuff already.
7)That sounds like nice idea if the organizers of a party have time for it.
8)Sounds like something that will lead to the bleeding of eyes and ears of the party visitors.
9)I'll let demoscene.tv crew answer that...
0)No comment...
2)No, I wouldn't open web voting for party compos. Voting is the right of the visitors even though I hardly ever vote in compos (web or party) myself unless it's obligatory.
3)Why not? It sounds fairly reasonable.
4)Hard to say. The compo needs to be something special like TMDC.
5)Less, there's no doubt about that! I am not a fan of NVScene and Intel Demo Competition type more or less hardware manufacturer-centered compos. Old hardware is a different story.
6)No, the staff of pouët has to deal with a lot of stuff already.
7)That sounds like nice idea if the organizers of a party have time for it.
8)Sounds like something that will lead to the bleeding of eyes and ears of the party visitors.
9)I'll let demoscene.tv crew answer that...
0)No comment...
1) Only for smaller parties, where the extra prods are welcome.
2) No, it gets too easy to cheat/call friends and family/etc.
3) No
4) Yes: this is great, but not for 'general' compos. I used to do one for mac demos before getting a bit busy (and focussing my time on making demos instead). I also think a 'beginners' compo would be great, it'd remove any fear of being laughed at for making a shitty first demo :)
5) No
6) Yes and no. Pouet would get too crowded, and for most of us, we're hear for the demos. BUT: I'd really like 'access' to the rest from pouet. Like if the music/gfx entries in the results.txt file could somehow link to the files on scene.org for convenient access.
7) Ok in 2 situations i think: for compos like the asm gamedev one where you need the binaries for a while before voting, and for compos that don't compete with the 'normal' compos for demomaking time. Chances are that everyone working on stuff for the party would be too busy to compete, so I don't know what you could do for that.
8) Yeah, an interactive compo sounds fun. Would it be a carefully planned and rehearsed 'vj style' live demo though? I'd love to see something like this where you make your demo, then hand control of it to some random members of the audience to play with.
9) Sounds like a good plan, if there was some agreed and standardised way of hooking up the party feed.
2) No, it gets too easy to cheat/call friends and family/etc.
3) No
4) Yes: this is great, but not for 'general' compos. I used to do one for mac demos before getting a bit busy (and focussing my time on making demos instead). I also think a 'beginners' compo would be great, it'd remove any fear of being laughed at for making a shitty first demo :)
5) No
6) Yes and no. Pouet would get too crowded, and for most of us, we're hear for the demos. BUT: I'd really like 'access' to the rest from pouet. Like if the music/gfx entries in the results.txt file could somehow link to the files on scene.org for convenient access.
7) Ok in 2 situations i think: for compos like the asm gamedev one where you need the binaries for a while before voting, and for compos that don't compete with the 'normal' compos for demomaking time. Chances are that everyone working on stuff for the party would be too busy to compete, so I don't know what you could do for that.
8) Yeah, an interactive compo sounds fun. Would it be a carefully planned and rehearsed 'vj style' live demo though? I'd love to see something like this where you make your demo, then hand control of it to some random members of the audience to play with.
9) Sounds like a good plan, if there was some agreed and standardised way of hooking up the party feed.
0) should prizes (hardware, cash, etc) be given to a compo winner if they remotely submitted their entry?
psonice: 8) exactly my dream, and the group who gives the most intuitive and efficient toys to the audience to produce the greatest live show would get the prize! the input could come from the audience first (like clapping or screaming or shaking wiimotes) but also and especially from the web followers as they probably are less drunk, more willing to participate and more inclined to thoughful art-making ;)
evilpaul: maybe if remote groups pay a remote fee, but at the end you still have to favour the ones who go to the party, and prizes naturally seem to be that last privilege.
evilpaul: maybe if remote groups pay a remote fee, but at the end you still have to favour the ones who go to the party, and prizes naturally seem to be that last privilege.
I don't get the vote-via-the-internet thing. If you want the privilege to vote, just go to the party.
2) We tried this at tUM 2004 with the result that about 5 people voted. We dropped the idea after that, because it wasn't worth the trouble.
There were quite a couple of technical issues we had to deal with:
- Synchronize release-information and files with the server on the internet
- Mailing Web-Votekeys to interested people to limit fakevoting
- syncing the web-votes back to the local server
Actually, that feature should still exist in PartyMeister somewhere...
There were quite a couple of technical issues we had to deal with:
- Synchronize release-information and files with the server on the internet
- Mailing Web-Votekeys to interested people to limit fakevoting
- syncing the web-votes back to the local server
Actually, that feature should still exist in PartyMeister somewhere...
2) We tried this at tUM 2004 with the result that about 5 people voted. We dropped the idea after that, because it wasn't worth the trouble.
There were quite a couple of technical issues we had to deal with:
- Synchronize release-information and files with the server on the internet
- Mailing Web-Votekeys to interested people to limit fakevoting
- syncing the web-votes back to the local server
Actually, that feature should still exist in PartyMeister somewhere...
There were quite a couple of technical issues we had to deal with:
- Synchronize release-information and files with the server on the internet
- Mailing Web-Votekeys to interested people to limit fakevoting
- syncing the web-votes back to the local server
Actually, that feature should still exist in PartyMeister somewhere...
2) about remote voting, it could be secured (as a beginning) by building it on old enough (3-6 months) sceneids.
3) stands out for me - yes please. I would pay a few euros for a stable live feed and the right to vote.
2) D.Fox: interesting to know that partymeister could already provide a basic remote voting system :)
thinking further about vote security and unicity, i would base the algorithm on old enough sceneid + IP + some hardware fingerprint tripcode.
thinking further about vote security and unicity, i would base the algorithm on old enough sceneid + IP + some hardware fingerprint tripcode.
Quote:
2) D.Fox: interesting to know that partymeister could already provide a basic remote voting system :)
thinking further about vote security and unicity, i would base the algorithm on old enough sceneid + IP + some hardware fingerprint tripcode.
Sounds good. Still there has to be enough demand for that kind of feature. Also I come to belive that you should only be allowed to vote if you're actually at the partyplace :)
1) would you open the compos to remote entries on a bigger scale ? has it been successful at the last buenzli/main parties, did it bring too much work for the orgas ?
>> Yes why not, can't tell for buenzli, imho it does brings more work to orgas, but that's not impossible.
2) would you open the vote to webvotes ? with a weight differential ? based on which ratio ?
>> Yes with a weight differential, that would be an idea. Something like 50% less for remote votes..but this is highly source of problems... =/ good ideas on security side zest.
3) would you be willing to pay a few euros through paypal to get a stable livefeed, and why not, to be able to remote vote ?
>> no.
4) would you like more standalone theme-based web compo like the famous TMDC or Xmas compo ?
>> hmm why not but not always the same ones..
5) would you like more or less web compos based on a corporate sponsor theme ?
>> i really don't know.
6) would you like pouët to cover all the compos from demoparties, to be an exhaustive frontend of all scene.org releases ? that would mean a pouët for music releases and a pouët for gfx ones...
>> why not, but why separated pouets ?
7) why not organizing a web compo before the party event to promote it, based on a theme and maybe on some collaborative mechanism, the final results could be shown at the party
>> good idea. i agree.
8) why not introducing an interactive live compo where net participants bring their input through commands, texts, photos, colors, forms... to build a global noisy/messy piece of art ? :D
>> dunno i'm not an artist..
9) is it possible that demoscene.tv harbors the livefeeds of smaller demoparties whitout their tv crew present at those ?
metapat, dax ? :p *tududutuduTUT!*
>> Yes why not, can't tell for buenzli, imho it does brings more work to orgas, but that's not impossible.
2) would you open the vote to webvotes ? with a weight differential ? based on which ratio ?
>> Yes with a weight differential, that would be an idea. Something like 50% less for remote votes..but this is highly source of problems... =/ good ideas on security side zest.
3) would you be willing to pay a few euros through paypal to get a stable livefeed, and why not, to be able to remote vote ?
>> no.
4) would you like more standalone theme-based web compo like the famous TMDC or Xmas compo ?
>> hmm why not but not always the same ones..
5) would you like more or less web compos based on a corporate sponsor theme ?
>> i really don't know.
6) would you like pouët to cover all the compos from demoparties, to be an exhaustive frontend of all scene.org releases ? that would mean a pouët for music releases and a pouët for gfx ones...
>> why not, but why separated pouets ?
7) why not organizing a web compo before the party event to promote it, based on a theme and maybe on some collaborative mechanism, the final results could be shown at the party
>> good idea. i agree.
8) why not introducing an interactive live compo where net participants bring their input through commands, texts, photos, colors, forms... to build a global noisy/messy piece of art ? :D
>> dunno i'm not an artist..
9) is it possible that demoscene.tv harbors the livefeeds of smaller demoparties whitout their tv crew present at those ?
metapat, dax ? :p *tududutuduTUT!*
D.Fox: we usually see a distortion between the party results and pouet overall judgement, because of name voting, friendly voting, drunk voting, jury voting etc... i guess we could say it's acceptable as it's primarily a demoscene de facto rule, but sometimes it looks quite unfair, specially for the newcoming groups... so why not try and introduce a bit of net counter-balance ?
also remote voting could be granted through a small fee participation but it would break the previous democratic logic :/
also remote voting could be granted through a small fee participation but it would break the previous democratic logic :/
1) what's 'bigger scale'? we allow remote entries at Riverwash and it's ok with me. we even used to send the prizes to people who didn't come. I'll rethink it next year. having more entries is good for the party and I wouldn't call watching new scene stuff 'work' anyway.
2) no. how can you allow people who haven't seen the stuff to vote? how can you check if they did (provided you host the entries right after the compo, which always seems to be a problem)? do you mean streaming? it'd be ruining people's work as streaming is not enough for judging quality work.
apart from technical issues - I think if you want to be at the party, be at the party. if not, it's your problem that you didn't come. if we allow webvoting, we'll end with web-parties and that'd be end of the scene.
3) I don't think it'd work to make people pay to watch a party.
4) we tried it this year at Riverwash and it didn't turn out to be popular (it was a jingle compo). we also had a post-party c64 vote due to some technical issues and I believe it also didn't turn out to be good. I definitely don't want it next year when I'm in charge of running the party again.
5) that's up to the organizers and their relations with sponsors. but isn't it better to make the compos at the party itself?
6) yes, definitely! yesterday I was looking for scene gfx because a guy from a local news portal asked me for it to illustrate a news piece about the scene event we are making on Friday and that's just what I thought - Pouet lacks that feature a lot.
7) see 4.
8) that sounds fun. I'm going to steal your idea next year for some fun compos, you know :)
9) technically? yes, of course. we got a few wifi cameras from one of our sponsors this year and I wanted to put up a live feed for streaming but we had some issues with the net connection and it didn't go. but I see it being possible and not even very complicated to achieve. of course it wouldn't be the same quality in terms of both picture and direction as live cameramen roaming the partyplace but a nice solution anyway.
0) what's for dinner? ;)
2) no. how can you allow people who haven't seen the stuff to vote? how can you check if they did (provided you host the entries right after the compo, which always seems to be a problem)? do you mean streaming? it'd be ruining people's work as streaming is not enough for judging quality work.
apart from technical issues - I think if you want to be at the party, be at the party. if not, it's your problem that you didn't come. if we allow webvoting, we'll end with web-parties and that'd be end of the scene.
3) I don't think it'd work to make people pay to watch a party.
4) we tried it this year at Riverwash and it didn't turn out to be popular (it was a jingle compo). we also had a post-party c64 vote due to some technical issues and I believe it also didn't turn out to be good. I definitely don't want it next year when I'm in charge of running the party again.
5) that's up to the organizers and their relations with sponsors. but isn't it better to make the compos at the party itself?
6) yes, definitely! yesterday I was looking for scene gfx because a guy from a local news portal asked me for it to illustrate a news piece about the scene event we are making on Friday and that's just what I thought - Pouet lacks that feature a lot.
7) see 4.
8) that sounds fun. I'm going to steal your idea next year for some fun compos, you know :)
9) technically? yes, of course. we got a few wifi cameras from one of our sponsors this year and I wanted to put up a live feed for streaming but we had some issues with the net connection and it didn't go. but I see it being possible and not even very complicated to achieve. of course it wouldn't be the same quality in terms of both picture and direction as live cameramen roaming the partyplace but a nice solution anyway.
0) what's for dinner? ;)
Remote voting for people watching the compos over a stream would make perhaps sense - I often tend to watch Demoscene TV if I can't go to a party and could think about giving a virtual thumb up if I see something neat.
3) would you be willing to pay a few euros through paypal to get a stable livefeed, and why not, to be able to remote vote ?
yes (for the stream)
6) would you like pouët to cover all the compos from demoparties, to be an exhaustive frontend of all scene.org releases ? that would mean a pouët for music releases and a pouët for gfx ones...
what psonice said
yes (for the stream)
6) would you like pouët to cover all the compos from demoparties, to be an exhaustive frontend of all scene.org releases ? that would mean a pouët for music releases and a pouët for gfx ones...
what psonice said
6) would you like pouët to cover all the compos from demoparties, to be an exhaustive frontend of all scene.org releases ? that would mean a pouët for music releases and a pouët for gfx ones...
yes, i tend to skip music&gfx compos quite often at parties, would be nice to see afterwards the entries at pouet and then decide based on comments whether any songs were worth listening, for example. it's stupid to NOT have all the party releases on same site...
yes, i tend to skip music&gfx compos quite often at parties, would be nice to see afterwards the entries at pouet and then decide based on comments whether any songs were worth listening, for example. it's stupid to NOT have all the party releases on same site...
1) I'm a big fan of remote entries. I usually attend somewhere between zero and one parties per year, but release more demos than that. So when I'm going to release it anyway, it's more fun to submit it to some party and let the those poor bastard suffer through it on the bigscreen! ;)
3) I would have paid good money to have been able to watch the X'2008 compo on a live stream, that's for sure...
Other than that it seems like the major parties already have this (for free!) working quite well.
3) I would have paid good money to have been able to watch the X'2008 compo on a live stream, that's for sure...
Other than that it seems like the major parties already have this (for free!) working quite well.
