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thumbs up/down

category: general [glöplog]
Since the thumbs up/down feature has been added, the quality of the comments on pouet (in my personal opinion) substantively degraded. More oneliner crap just to be able to give a vote, self-promotion, and attitude-motivated votes from the dear self-centered in us. Overall it added more noise than signal.

I would suggest removing this feature and replace it possibly with a comment-independant, anonymous, voting system (perhaps keeping the thumbs up / unrated / thumb down system, just separated from comments)

It's not the only problem of course, but that would be a good fix.
added on the 2001-10-27 10:41:54 by _-_-__ _-_-__
I agree.
I really dislike the personal flamewars that is clogging the comments on some productions. It's totally useless and just ruins the good atmosphere around pouet.
added on the 2001-10-27 13:36:45 by skypher skypher
Yes !!! agree too !
hey Lator & robotriot... are you ok ??? ;)
added on the 2001-10-27 14:28:14 by Stv Stv
Thumbs up for this suggestion. :o)
added on the 2001-10-27 14:38:37 by melw melw
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added on the 2001-10-27 15:04:18 by fractalgp fractalgp
I dont think something will change by removing the thumbs from the comments, or anonymizing them... Flames are like the universe: They have always been and they will always be :-)

Wont mind if they get removed. I'll still comment anyway! :-)
added on the 2001-10-28 00:23:40 by moT moT
I completely agree with mister bugged nick Knos :)
added on the 2001-10-28 02:26:07 by alexkidd alexkidd
who cares about the voting system anyways? -- it's subjective, just like any party-vote-sheet around.
I agree if everybody vote for me
added on the 2001-10-28 07:30:32 by tuo tuo
I disagree,. thumbs voting is cool and I like it here. Although I don't like seeing people voting up their own productions,. it's meaningless!
added on the 2001-10-30 08:21:39 by Optimonk Optimonk
optimus, why is thumb voting cool. Think about it for a minute.

It is 'cool' because it gives you an apparent power. In reality, it is a message you send to the author of a production.. what type of message does it convey? a simple i like it, or i hate it. Very subtle, duh. Yes, exageration can give you a nice 'cool' feeling of having an 'attitude.' especially when it is publicized along a comment. The problem is, it just becomes posturing as soon as the majority starts misusing it.

I'll take an example.. at least in a few occasions people have been downvoting productions <because> they were in the top ten, and in their mind shouldn't be. Is it in the spirit of voting? Isn't it rather hypocrisy, a strategy that one would use to look more 'impartial' than others 'cooler', or 'better'?

(Another point. People's votes don't have the same value, some people do only downvote, very rarely upvote. Some upvote all the time. Some upvote/downvote equally. Some never vote)

Thumbs/up/down are just a beauty contest and/or self-masturbation.
added on the 2001-10-30 10:03:40 by _-_-__ _-_-__
and read fred's article in the last pain before downvoting.

what i would prefer instead of thumbs up/down would be stars like on thecalodox cde, there you can't give negative points to a production. it sounds better to me ..
added on the 2001-10-30 11:19:29 by florent florent
The following verses come to mind:

"Vote for me! I wanna win the competition! Vote for me! Ah-huh, ah huh!" :-P

(Leinad, 4th place in some Assembly music compo, '95 if I am not mistaken)
added on the 2001-10-30 12:31:59 by moT moT
ltv: at least i don't vote on my own prods ;)
added on the 2001-10-30 13:46:06 by robotriot robotriot
make that 'stv'
added on the 2001-10-30 13:46:47 by robotriot robotriot
"comment-independant, anonymous, voting system"

BAD idea. To see how that works out, read Anonymous Coward posts on Slashdot or any anonymous poll anywhere: it will only mean more noise and nearly no signal in the votes.

And as for being concerned that with thumbing products down you might demotivate people: get real -I think getting laughed at at a demoparty is worse than a tiny 16x16 bitmap.

If finding out people think your product bites ass makes you quit the scene, I wonder what real life would do to you.

added on the 2001-10-30 14:26:41 by Shifter Shifter
shifter, can you make any sense please?
added on the 2001-10-30 16:18:53 by _-_-__ _-_-__
Shifter said;
"comment-independant, anonymous, voting system"
BAD idea. To see how that works out, read Anonymous Coward posts on Slashdot or any anonymous poll anywhere: it will only mean more noise and nearly no signal in the votes.

What about an comment-independent, anonymous voting system where you have to log in to give your vote? I'd bet it will atleast reduce the number of "non-serious" votes. It's also a good way to keep people from voting twice.
added on the 2001-10-30 16:25:31 by fractalgp fractalgp
as far as I know, you can vote only once for a production, with you first comment. Next comments aren't included in the voting process (no thumb appear to the comment).
added on the 2001-10-30 17:26:32 by tuo tuo
yeah. anonymous voting rulezzzh

you get some nice average that doesn't say anything useless but just that fr08 is currently the most popular production in the demoscene and that the stuff you've liked are rated, say, about 67% of that. if you want to find more of them, you should go ahead and see other prods that are rated around 67% or fr08.

so easy.

currently if something gets liked/dissed, i'll need to have a look at voters taste first to see if he/she/it has a clue before concluding anything.
added on the 2001-10-30 18:13:16 by 216 216
I personally like the voting system with thumbs up/down, because whenever a demo (and this *is* subjective, noone could ever be objective) is evaluated, the person in question can put forward both the things that did and did not rock his world, and still show whether or not he liked it as a consequence of these things. The thumb clearly sets out your relationship towards a certain demo.

It also allows you to quick-vote. This is not a bad thing: if everything you feel about a demo has already been stated by those who voted earlier, why bother and repeat the arguments? Quick-voting saves time and space, so I like it.

And as for "quality voting", who's to say what "quality" means? It is as immaterial as the discussion about which demostyle is "the best".
added on the 2001-10-30 18:37:31 by Vip Vip
up or down is perhaps to reductive, and the 'ok' is not mentionned by a picture, sad.

i look the vote and the comments of others gloppers who had see the prod before me and download it.
if the prod had lots of 'sucks', i download it, no cares, i want to make my own opinion why this prod is so bad.

i think thumbs are useful for people who makes demos, i'm one of them, and comments are useful too. with constructive critics we can do better job next time.

with the feelings of voting of lots of gloppers and the taste of lots of you, we know if we do good or medium prods.

so, thumbs are good but dont use it as weapons against personnals things, just apreciate the prod itself.
the goal is to increase our skills to make better and better demos, no ?.
fractalgp: we're logging in for comments already, so that hardly has any hopes of becoming something useful -unless you'd banish logins for good concerning normal comments. That would only encourage people to post more 'U 5ux0r!!!!!' crap than ever before -even when it doesn't affect top10 ratings.

knos, I'd love to, but first, kindly inform me from which dimension you came, and what planet beamed you down.

I don't know guys, why don't we just leave the system be and try to act like grownups?

Anonymous voting will just rig the charts. What's the goddamn obsession with those votes anyway? I personally see them as a token of respect, not a statistic.
added on the 2001-10-31 00:52:27 by Shifter Shifter
shifter please explain to me, what NEGATIVE change the switch to an anonymous vote cause? Please explain to me, how are the charts LESS subject to 'manipulations' when the vote is along side a comment?

You don't make any sense, (or perhaps you simply lack any kind of analysis skills) comparing the situation to that of slashdot.. one would still need an account to vote and, the vote could even be displayed on the user's account page.. or even on the production page as a list of names. What i don't like is the comment <-> vote relationship. (i could care less about votes.. i'm just concerned they ruin the comment part of the site)

as for the planet, why do you want to know which one i'm hanging in these days?
added on the 2001-10-31 07:55:50 by _-_-__ _-_-__
I disagree. I still find that the voting system is good as it is. Why anonymous posts? What will we gain from this. Perhaps you mean that it will reduce quarells in the comments? I don't get it, it will make it worse...
I like it as it is, there are several good things when the votes and comments are signed, 1) You know which of the sceners likes your demos, 2) You know what is the taste of other sceners in demos, e.t.c.. it makes it more interesting to know who are the sceners who liked or not your prods.

As for the fights, the people who thumb up their own prods, e.t.c.

>optimus, why is thumb voting cool. Think about it for a >minute.
>It is 'cool' because it gives you an apparent power. In >reality, it is a message you send to the author of a
>(Another point. People's votes don't have the same value, >some people do only downvote, very rarely upvote. Some >upvote all the time. Some upvote/downvote equally. Some >never vote) Thumbs/up/down are just a beauty contest >and/or self-masturbation.

I understand all these, but I personally don't have a problem with all these existing, cause I know that votes and comments are subjective in the same way that charts and reviews are. I know that all these are in the game called the scene, and I enjoy playing in it, without taking it to seriously when someone bashes me for my prods (Heh,. well actually, I don't have anything to show yet in the scene. I think though that I will not care if I get negative critiques from some people in pouet, cause I know they are all subjective..)

I have also read the article of fred before flad mentioned it in his post. As I told you I don't think I will take it so seriously if people will criticise me about my prods. I will read their comments, I could even have some disagreement/why not fight with them about that,. but all these not taken seriously but like a game. That's how I think the demoscene,. (that's why I was having fun with the Elitegroup, or Nextempire fuzz, I was seeing it like a game, a funny thing and nothing else, while others took it serious)
I don't know,. perhaps other sceners take it too seriously. Perhaps you will tell me that I shouldn't talk as I haven't produced anything for the scene, even if I don't like people telling me that I shouldn't vote just for that.


Optimus/Dirty Minds

P.S. Just something irrelevant. I have read in Fred's article. "You shouldn't vote, if you still think that Second Reality is the best demo ever" or something like that. I read on Demoo about SR "We don't understand why this demo is so hyped. There were better ones at it's own time" or something like that (damn,. inet connection,. I can't login to copypaste the text, anyways..)
Damn,. what is all this about SR just beeing hyped and not deserving it's own position in the scene? I find it strange, I don't say this because I just praise the demo,. sometimes this demo even appeals today when watching it. And I didn't knew the scene back then, but at 1998 I had seen my first demo,. I even appreciated it when I first seen it in 1998 when there are lot of greater newer 3d demos! But anyways,. I understand that this is a matter of taste or something, I have also seen people thumbing down Heaven7 or other great demos, I have also thumbed down demos that other people appreciate and it was still a good thing to discuss with them about why thumbing down some prods...
At the end it's a matter of taste.
As for the votes and stuff, I told you it's subjective, and a matter of tastes, I take it easy, I assume it's not the absolute truth,. and I agree with shifter who said "If finding out people think your product bites ass makes you quit the scene, I wonder what real life would do to you". I don't care at all. Perhaps other people care,. I am not aware,. even if this would seem strange to me...
Anyways, I talk too much,.. back to work.
added on the 2001-11-01 09:20:46 by Optimonk Optimonk


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