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"Real 3D" on ECS Amigas possible?

category: general [glöplog]
I wonder if someone has done a real 3D Demo on an ECS Amiga....
I'm not talking about the huge "three parts" polygon objects as seen in "Desert Dream" or else. How about some cool "Voxelspace". The processor calculates the 3d Scene and the Blitter is placing the volumetric cells.

On AGA machines we see similar stuff like that, but what was possible on an ECS Amiga with a 7.1Mhz CPU?
added on the 2008-03-28 00:33:44 by emkay emkay
Amiga makes it possible...
Alien^BF should know something about this, or Optimus - I'm interested too.
added on the 2008-03-28 01:21:48 by rc55 rc55
You don't say how fast it should run...
added on the 2008-03-28 01:28:15 by syphus syphus
Ok, no.

The idea is to try it and see if you can pull it off, not ask if someone else can do it for you.

Seriously. Go for it.
That philosophy applies to many areas of life. Particularly public decency laws.
added on the 2008-03-28 01:34:53 by syphus syphus
My memory of those days is hazy now, but I have a vague idea that I saw some pretty good voxels on AGA, and similar stuff but running in a much smaller window on A500. That was just landscapes of course. And maybe my memory of that is plain wrong :)
added on the 2008-03-28 01:35:03 by psonice psonice
There's some non-AGA Sanity demo with voxels in it but I think it still requires a manly CPU.
Well, I know shit about Amiga (ECS) coding, but voxels were even pulled off on C64. At a horrible framerate and low resolution yes.. which brings us back to Syphus' question/statement.
added on the 2008-03-28 02:07:02 by Alpha C Alpha C
Plenty of Voxel stuff on ECS Amigas, i can picture them in my head but can't quite remember the names atm. Pretty much always some sort of landscape and fairly chunky but still a voxel :)
added on the 2008-03-28 08:43:37 by Intrinsic Intrinsic

Only voxels on A500 i can remember
(And by A500 i don't mean some imaginary config a la winuae but amiga as it was in it's heydays: 512k chip + 512k fast + a 68000, the most common platform where all the demos for what the pre-amiga aga is remember for).
added on the 2008-03-28 09:02:06 by hitchhikr hitchhikr
there have already been some 3D worlds on ECS. also check out games like Mercenary III. there are also some demo with these kinds of worlds (with fixed horizon). Amiga ECS has the advantage of some kind of hardware polygon filling (smear mode iirc). the blitter can also do XOR filling but that's better suited to demo screens.

as for voxels.. with a fixed viewing angle and without interpolation i'd say, yes, it's possible at a decent frame rate. making it free directional, i'd say forget it.

afterall, i know defjam/checkpoint (in my eyes the best coder on Atari ST) did try to make a freedirectional voxelspace after i did it on Falcon030. I even gave him the Commanche level maps. But after many years I think it's safe to conclude the 68000 is just too slow. My raycasting loop was already highly optimised. It did like 14 - 15 fps in 160x100 on 030@16. On 68k you might gain speed by prestepping, with -huge- tables.
added on the 2008-03-28 09:04:00 by earx earx

This one also had some really nice voxels on the A500.
added on the 2008-03-28 09:17:12 by britelite britelite
cryptoburners demo brainstate in a box, if i reckall right, had some pretty voxel landscapes. But it needed a potent Amiga to run properly.
added on the 2008-03-28 09:52:55 by NoahR NoahR
damn, britez0r was faster, I was about to post a link to the very same TEK demo which indeed features very nice voxels. =)
added on the 2008-03-28 10:18:12 by StingRay StingRay
that TEK demo (rampage) absolutely kicked ass. it wasn't just the fast poly rout or the voxel but the whole package. great presentation.

the voxel: fixed direction. relatively easy to optimise.
added on the 2008-03-28 13:15:28 by earx earx
Electron at work's voxels are more complex (and look better).
It works with cycle exact and 100% floppy speed under winuae.
added on the 2008-03-28 13:19:58 by hitchhikr hitchhikr
gotta try that, then. it's time to have another crack at UAE.. i wonder, is it 2x2 and free directional?
added on the 2008-03-28 13:43:24 by earx earx
Electrons at work is pretty much the best Voxel you can expect on an A500.

@Iblis: Brainstate in a box was AGA not OCS.
added on the 2008-03-28 14:18:40 by Zonkham Zonkham
Sim (ex-Razor1911) did a great voxel routine on A500. He explained it in the german Amiga magazine in '96.. Also check this.
added on the 2008-03-28 15:44:38 by spike spike
of course it is possible! in 40*30!
added on the 2008-03-28 15:47:23 by nystep nystep
He explained it in the german Amiga magazine in '96..

and then suddenly there was silence. :D when it started to get interesting, no sim/drake articles in the mentioned german Amiga Magazine anymore ;)
added on the 2008-03-28 15:47:41 by StingRay StingRay
sting: exactly! that was what I also thought :) a pity.. Back than I didn't understand half of it. Reading it nowadays makes me realize how great some amiga coders are/were: E.g. his usage of prepared blitter commandlists is nothing else than todays displaylists / pushbuffers in gfx cards...
added on the 2008-03-28 15:55:24 by spike spike
Yes, the idea was quite nice. The actual coding style was rather horrible though. =)
added on the 2008-03-28 16:00:48 by StingRay StingRay


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