Fractional reserve banking
category: general [glöplog]
Please continue link me beautiful here.
thanks Nitro.
I dont like being flat out robbed of real value, so my question to you is.
Why do you like being robbed?
Im suggesting the follwoing.
I want to make pc's so i go to the state controlled bank, get the sum i need to get started, and when i pay it back, the interrest at a flat rate set by the state itself, now go into the state to be used in its budget. Meaning, people have a very serious interrest in being productive as it naturally lowers the need for taxation on labour, which i find an abhoring idea itself.
Where does communism tie into this?
I dont like being flat out robbed of real value, so my question to you is.
Why do you like being robbed?
Im suggesting the follwoing.
I want to make pc's so i go to the state controlled bank, get the sum i need to get started, and when i pay it back, the interrest at a flat rate set by the state itself, now go into the state to be used in its budget. Meaning, people have a very serious interrest in being productive as it naturally lowers the need for taxation on labour, which i find an abhoring idea itself.
Where does communism tie into this?
you people do understand that all we have now, is MONOPOLISED money.
fractional reserve for dummies:
The state has outsourced money to a private fucking bank!
the simple but offensive facts
This stuff is anything but free market, or free choice. Its a monopoly. And if thats the case, it might aswell be a monopoly directly under the control of the democracy we claim to have for the benefit of all, as opposed to a monopoly to benefit a few that allready has enough shit AND power!.
**is this thing on** ....*hello!* ...*elo* ....*lo* ...
ok, i hear you, so you re happy with being robbed flat out, as long as you can buy stuff that you could have been buying without being robbed, yeah makes perfect sense.
fractional reserve for dummies:
The state has outsourced money to a private fucking bank!
the simple but offensive facts
This stuff is anything but free market, or free choice. Its a monopoly. And if thats the case, it might aswell be a monopoly directly under the control of the democracy we claim to have for the benefit of all, as opposed to a monopoly to benefit a few that allready has enough shit AND power!.
**is this thing on** ....*hello!* ...*elo* ....*lo* ...
ok, i hear you, so you re happy with being robbed flat out, as long as you can buy stuff that you could have been buying without being robbed, yeah makes perfect sense.
*Does phantom jerk while yawning. Then I light up my pipe*
"Oh yes I concur Iblis. You are so smart. Well now you figured it all out we can go back to our lives."
"Oh yes I concur Iblis. You are so smart. Well now you figured it all out we can go back to our lives."
Are there any intelligent takers?
Ok, I don't know very much about economy, so I'll try to understand something about the topic. I honestly don't get most of the Wikipedia article, but this is what I think FRB is now:
A bank is doing FRB when it is issuing more banknotes than it has reserves to cover. Correct?
A bank is doing FRB when it is issuing more banknotes than it has reserves to cover. Correct?
Yes, put simply.
If the bank has a reserve of 1:10. It it can loan out 9 units, that doesnt excist yet, so to speak. They are created the minute your name is on that loan agreement. Get your head around this, it was hard for me.
It used to be that the original 10% (at a 1:10 frb) was gold (the ACTUAL agred upon value), but the system at some point became a closed circuit, so money created in the above way can be used as the "base money" meaning. the money they then go onto create is backed by less than than 1:10 far less, and this circle just repeats itself over and over. Clever mathmaticians ague that out of 1000units, they can create 100.000 new ones. at 1:10 ...
That is as simple as i can put it. But quite frankly, it is disgusting, because even though the rules and laws are complex and rigid, the logic of it is simpleton and criminal!
And if you think i belive there is a conspiracy at work, i dont. Only that our polkiticians simply doesnt know any better like the rest of us, because money ARE aviable atm.. we only notice when there is problems, this goes for everything. And those who benefit sure as hell arent going to speak. It has come throgh slowly, bit buy bit carried on political and public ignorance on the issue and here and now gains for a criminal lobbyists here and there. Its a paperthin structure protected and with gain for very little people and least of all progress, and the greatest risk is the one that has been observed at wall street, and the depression following.
All the money suddenly dissapeared. that is in fact what happened, had the government been in control the politicians could be blamed and something could be done, but the problem was, something in this private closed circuit simply pulled out the cork and stood under the sink with a bucket. This is the point where conspiracy theories start to play in, but anything before that is a fact and exposes another fatal flaw of the system.
With all the money gone (obviously not to hell or on vacation) and banks not issuing any loans (because they belive there are no money), there was no money being created, thus no "money" to back up creation of legal tender (the paper) and thus no goods and services could be exchanged, and everything grinded to a halt. Germany altso experienced something similar. in fact, many places has at some point in history.
If the bank has a reserve of 1:10. It it can loan out 9 units, that doesnt excist yet, so to speak. They are created the minute your name is on that loan agreement. Get your head around this, it was hard for me.
It used to be that the original 10% (at a 1:10 frb) was gold (the ACTUAL agred upon value), but the system at some point became a closed circuit, so money created in the above way can be used as the "base money" meaning. the money they then go onto create is backed by less than than 1:10 far less, and this circle just repeats itself over and over. Clever mathmaticians ague that out of 1000units, they can create 100.000 new ones. at 1:10 ...
That is as simple as i can put it. But quite frankly, it is disgusting, because even though the rules and laws are complex and rigid, the logic of it is simpleton and criminal!
And if you think i belive there is a conspiracy at work, i dont. Only that our polkiticians simply doesnt know any better like the rest of us, because money ARE aviable atm.. we only notice when there is problems, this goes for everything. And those who benefit sure as hell arent going to speak. It has come throgh slowly, bit buy bit carried on political and public ignorance on the issue and here and now gains for a criminal lobbyists here and there. Its a paperthin structure protected and with gain for very little people and least of all progress, and the greatest risk is the one that has been observed at wall street, and the depression following.
All the money suddenly dissapeared. that is in fact what happened, had the government been in control the politicians could be blamed and something could be done, but the problem was, something in this private closed circuit simply pulled out the cork and stood under the sink with a bucket. This is the point where conspiracy theories start to play in, but anything before that is a fact and exposes another fatal flaw of the system.
With all the money gone (obviously not to hell or on vacation) and banks not issuing any loans (because they belive there are no money), there was no money being created, thus no "money" to back up creation of legal tender (the paper) and thus no goods and services could be exchanged, and everything grinded to a halt. Germany altso experienced something similar. in fact, many places has at some point in history.
its a destructive financial system, a benevolent one. Not so much for us in the west mind you, but we are not the "majority of people". At some point the coin is going to drop with "the majority of people", and then what do you think will happen? Im not a hippie, i care about my own ass, and thats why we need to change the system, thank you folks.
No surprise what I found from: http://activistnyc.wordpress.com/2007/11/01/fractional-reserve-banking-a-response-to-some-of-the-hullabaloo/
"The banking system is certainly not above criticism. However, as I pointed out in a comment after my post on Chip Berlet and “conspiracism”, there are at least three reasons to be wary of some of the allegations about the Federal Reserve System that have been circulated widely in the 9/11 Truth movement:" Look bold section. Let me direct LOL to Iblis. First it seemed interesting but seriously this is something that is not really worth spending time on. Just so you know.
"The banking system is certainly not above criticism. However, as I pointed out in a comment after my post on Chip Berlet and “conspiracism”, there are at least three reasons to be wary of some of the allegations about the Federal Reserve System that have been circulated widely in the 9/11 Truth movement:" Look bold section. Let me direct LOL to Iblis. First it seemed interesting but seriously this is something that is not really worth spending time on. Just so you know.
that should have said the preservation of my own ass.
unseen just because you google for the first and the best "anti - insert x" doesnt mean that you have a fucking clue. now go away, or participate with something usefull. Family values are altso circulated widely in this socalled 9/11 movement, what youre doing is persiflage, if not outright sabbotage of a pretty important debate.
But apparently youre either to stupid, or too stubborn, whichever, just get out of my way.
But apparently youre either to stupid, or too stubborn, whichever, just get out of my way.
excactly what am i looking at? i get an error?
[Offtopic]
And Iblis just so you know, I'm major skeptics. Let me tell you little bit my background. I used to interested at conspiracy theories. What ever weird shit you got, I had it all. Then i grew up. I had to start question these "alternative media" messages too coz I found out Finnish Skeptics Association magazine. World needs logic and reason. This world is imo so much interesting without all those zany David Icke/Prisonplanet stuff. [/Offtopic]
And Iblis just so you know, I'm major skeptics. Let me tell you little bit my background. I used to interested at conspiracy theories. What ever weird shit you got, I had it all. Then i grew up. I had to start question these "alternative media" messages too coz I found out Finnish Skeptics Association magazine. World needs logic and reason. This world is imo so much interesting without all those zany David Icke/Prisonplanet stuff. [/Offtopic]
this has nothing to do with conspiracy theories, i love conspiracy theories, but this is not one.
what youre telling me is that you have the mind of a follower, i mean this as no offence. All you did is change venue, your mind stayed all the same. I too use logic and reason, problem being, that those describing themself profesionally with thise words, can just aswell be liars like everybody else. Do you understand this? First you followed the tinfoilhat, then you followed the white coat, and soon properbly something else, when what you should be doing, is reading in the refferences of both and make up your own mind.
An oppinion you can be sure is not payed for by someone, colored by someone else, shaded by a lobbyist and lied about in the media. It is your own, based on the same facts, that are avaible to everybody else.
what youre telling me is that you have the mind of a follower, i mean this as no offence. All you did is change venue, your mind stayed all the same. I too use logic and reason, problem being, that those describing themself profesionally with thise words, can just aswell be liars like everybody else. Do you understand this? First you followed the tinfoilhat, then you followed the white coat, and soon properbly something else, when what you should be doing, is reading in the refferences of both and make up your own mind.
An oppinion you can be sure is not payed for by someone, colored by someone else, shaded by a lobbyist and lied about in the media. It is your own, based on the same facts, that are avaible to everybody else.
oh and yes the market is a monopoly for not offering any other market to use. let's leave everything to the state to decide, which isn't monopoly because it's only run by a single firm but that firm is just called the state. oh but the state decides to make contract with a single other firm other than a whole open market. but it's not state which 5 million people elected that made this decision but it's monopoly!! i'm enlightened!!!111!1!
FRB means the bank's reserves must match a fraction of the sum of the loans it issues. So if the reserve is fixed to 10% that means a bank that has actual funds of say $1bn can legally lend its clients $10bn. And of course then the economy gets a bit weird.
why these emotional outbursts?, where do you get the idea that im a communist? get it streight. If anything im a Jefferson Democrat but hardly that.
The state is you and me, the bank is someone else unless you own it. So when when value are created between the 2 of us, you willingly hand over some of your money to the 3rd guy present, and i would really like to know why you are so pleased about this?
The state is you and me, the bank is someone else unless you own it. So when when value are created between the 2 of us, you willingly hand over some of your money to the 3rd guy present, and i would really like to know why you are so pleased about this?
And the US Federal Reserve is a different thing from fraction beserve banking.
BD. especially when these funds are allowed to loop over and over.
BD how so? They claim to use fractional reserve banking, how do they differ?
*fractional
Iblis, I think you are really original guy and I respect you but I think you are brainwashed by Icke/Jones and others like them. You claim that I'm sheep but the sheep is really you. You seem to do like most conspiracy theorist do, you just keep repeating what others tell you with little bit your own research behind. You are your 9/11 Truth movement family and I have Skeptics. Research more, you might find that Skeptics aren't all that bad and wrong in everything. Anyway I'm bored and don't want to talk anymore. Merry Xmas!
Offtopic: Btw. Iblis do you remember blog of that Ex. 9/11 Truther who left the movement? He was whole leader of movement. If you remember his blog, it was interesting read. If you have link for it can you give it to me...
no what that is, is you labelling me. I dislike Jones entirely, and icke is more a fetich than a serious concern, but i love the melodrama, the end of the world dates that keep changing, the fact that silver solutions can cure you for everything (and turn you blue) this is rooted in my fascination with religion. I used to be a hardened follower of Islam, but i was dragged more by a need to "know things", and eventually i had to admit to myself it was bullshit if i was to stay true to my quest for knowing things. know and belive doesnt go well together.
what is going on here is because i like, and touch upon some of the same subjects you instantly go into a defense mode created by your own dissapointment with the conspiracy world, because like the rest of the world "belive none of what you hear and only half of what you see" and crackpots are indeed over representated there, but they are in politics aswell aren they? self obsorbed paranoids that spread fear, when they should be suggesting what things to change.
Jones never does that, And icke is more like buddha icke, which is cool.
Dont label me bro! ;)
what is going on here is because i like, and touch upon some of the same subjects you instantly go into a defense mode created by your own dissapointment with the conspiracy world, because like the rest of the world "belive none of what you hear and only half of what you see" and crackpots are indeed over representated there, but they are in politics aswell aren they? self obsorbed paranoids that spread fear, when they should be suggesting what things to change.
Jones never does that, And icke is more like buddha icke, which is cool.
Dont label me bro! ;)
icke is like a peacefull variation of heavens door, do you remember those nuts? To get to witness religion born, first hand, is fantastic. Seing how dogmas settle, how the politics of the day blend in to it.
But this does not mean that there arent some pretty serious issues that are never aired in public, that should be. It is not kept silent by anyone who "designed" it, the status quo is kept by those who currently gain from it, business as ususal. Why would you squeel if you are VERY comfortable, if it cost the life and fortune of a couple of hundred thousands people you dont know. Perhaps you are unable to think like that, i know that i am, but more people than youd like to think are capable. especially if they are shielded ffrom the real consequences of their actions.
But this does not mean that there arent some pretty serious issues that are never aired in public, that should be. It is not kept silent by anyone who "designed" it, the status quo is kept by those who currently gain from it, business as ususal. Why would you squeel if you are VERY comfortable, if it cost the life and fortune of a couple of hundred thousands people you dont know. Perhaps you are unable to think like that, i know that i am, but more people than youd like to think are capable. especially if they are shielded ffrom the real consequences of their actions.