today
category: general [glöplog]
I think so.
Although I also commented only at once about this incident, this site is a site of a demoscene.
I think that arguing about this subject more here is not appropriate.
Although I also commented only at once about this incident, this site is a site of a demoscene.
I think that arguing about this subject more here is not appropriate.
i aggree... altough i posted some stuff since i wanted to.. but i prefer letting the scene stay out of politics...
this is not politics.
lator:
well it makes a huge differences between attacking civilians or militaries: attacking militaries means you disaprove the abroad politic/actions of a country, attacking thousands of civilians means that you want to extarminate a whole country without any distinction
imo teo^kng is rather right, I think pouet.net isn't really the appropriate place to chat about "that"
he's definitely right when he says that says that ojuice.net ( and many others sites ) sucks to close for "that", what the hell would it change to close a website for a while ? explain me, 'coz I really don't understand
well it makes a huge differences between attacking civilians or militaries: attacking militaries means you disaprove the abroad politic/actions of a country, attacking thousands of civilians means that you want to extarminate a whole country without any distinction
imo teo^kng is rather right, I think pouet.net isn't really the appropriate place to chat about "that"
he's definitely right when he says that says that ojuice.net ( and many others sites ) sucks to close for "that", what the hell would it change to close a website for a while ? explain me, 'coz I really don't understand
people close thier webpage because they are shocked to the bone. people talk about politics on computer pages because they have to talk. closing webpages helps the webmaster to articulate his speechlessness (uhh. ugly english. anyway).
www.farb-rausch.com is down too. it needs an update anyway.
making a difference between attacks on soldiers and civilians is typical for our culture. for other cultures, this may not be of any relevance. we have to redefine what we call civilised. at the moment, the rules are made by terrorists, and i am shure that these rules are much worse for us than the rules made by the kapitalistic pseudo-democracies most of us live in.
www.farb-rausch.com is down too. it needs an update anyway.
making a difference between attacks on soldiers and civilians is typical for our culture. for other cultures, this may not be of any relevance. we have to redefine what we call civilised. at the moment, the rules are made by terrorists, and i am shure that these rules are much worse for us than the rules made by the kapitalistic pseudo-democracies most of us live in.
moT said it very well.
Terrorism as an act of killing indiscriminatingly people just to cause grief and shock, is an act which everybody can easily condemn. So has the whole world already done. But of all the people in this world (world is more than USA+Europe) theo ones who have NO RIGHT TO TALK ABOUT TERRORISM is the people of USA. Because their country is the world's greatest terrorist. Their country is the first one to strike ruthlessly upon civilians, upon hospitals, upon schools and houses all over the world. They have done done so many times before, as they will do again. They speak of an attack against freedon when they were the first to attack freedom on all over the world. And they have done it, not to save something, not to help a single human being but their only goal waas to seize power. Their only goal was economic power. They have used their terrible power, not only killing thousands of people but condemning generations and generations, whole countries and nations to endless poverty and death. Have we forgoten Hiroshima/Nagashaki?Have we forgotten Africa? Have we forgotten Yugoslavia? Have we forgotten Libya,Iraq, Soudan, India Kenya?? Have we forgotten South America? Where were Americans then to grief for terrorism? Were they even aware that these things happen? Are Americans even aware of what their government does all over the world? It is very easy to close your eyes on the whole world, let your government kill, destroy and terrorise whomever she wants and then be startled facing the conscequences... And this is not all. The thing is that it is FAR WORSE than that. Who do you Americans think created your terrorists? Was it your government who funded bin Laden and gave him millitary support to fight the soviets? But funding the worst Islamic band and making it an army was good for you. Was it not your leaders who gave arms, bombs and weapons to Sadam, so that he could control M.East? Is it not your leaders who give arms and money to UCK in Albania? Were thjey not the ones(USLeaders) who created civic war in Yugoslavia and Croatia because it fittees their economic plans? USA HAS FUNDED AND CREATED ALL THOSE TERRORISTS BUT WHEN THEIR WAR IS FAR AWAY FROM USA YOU DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE THOUSANDS WHO DIE. YOU DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE DESTRUCTION YOU HAVE CAUSED TO MILLION OF PEOPLE by killing, bombing, creating civic wars, denieng pharmaceutical supply, embargoing and so much more. But now when you face the consequences of YOUR actions you call upon international sympathy.
I have written all these in hope that Americans will start looking into what their leaders are doing. In hope that one day they will realise that the world extends far beyond their continent. That the rest (-USA/Eur.Union) of the world is on war. A war declared to them only because we (US/Europe) want to flourish our economies.
A war that made innocent people into soldiers only for money. They do nat have the commodity to distinguish soldiers/civilians because we have made that choice for them.
"As Americans cried and weaped for the innocent
when their bombs spread death in Serbia, Iraq, Libya, Soudan
so are we crying today
for what happened in USA"
from a greek newspaper
I have written all these in hope that Americans will start looking into what their leaders are doing. In hope that one day they will realise that the world extends far beyond their continent. That the rest (-USA/Eur.Union) of the world is on war. A war declared to them only because we (US/Europe) want to flourish our economies.
A war that made innocent people into soldiers only for money. They do nat have the commodity to distinguish soldiers/civilians because we have made that choice for them.
"As Americans cried and weaped for the innocent
when their bombs spread death in Serbia, Iraq, Libya, Soudan
so are we crying today
for what happened in USA"
from a greek newspaper
At least they did this despiseful act for THEIR FREEDOM. USA DOES IT FOR MONEY.
oh, while we're at it.
let's all clap when someone kills 20000 greeks, because you know, greece had a military dictatorship not too long ago. so they must deserve it.
damn, psyche, even IF the USA government was trying to kill every single person on the planet, that would STILL give no-one the right to kill civilians in the tens of thousands.
the things you say about the USA acting like terrorists themselves, fine, that is your opinion. but this is not about the government, but about CIVILIANS. the people that were killed had nothing to with how the USA acts on the rest of the planet. killing those civilians is like killing 1000 cats because one dog bit you once - there is ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE IN IT except blind hate on everything that is USA - and btw, looking at your posting, your attitude doesn't seem to be much different.
ofcourse the USA made political decisions that were plainly WRONG and senselessly cost millions of people their lives - but so did germany, russia, spain, italia, greece, ... so what? does that make it ok to kill people who inhabit these countries?
this is not about politics, this is about human rights and respecting others lives.
let's all clap when someone kills 20000 greeks, because you know, greece had a military dictatorship not too long ago. so they must deserve it.
damn, psyche, even IF the USA government was trying to kill every single person on the planet, that would STILL give no-one the right to kill civilians in the tens of thousands.
the things you say about the USA acting like terrorists themselves, fine, that is your opinion. but this is not about the government, but about CIVILIANS. the people that were killed had nothing to with how the USA acts on the rest of the planet. killing those civilians is like killing 1000 cats because one dog bit you once - there is ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE IN IT except blind hate on everything that is USA - and btw, looking at your posting, your attitude doesn't seem to be much different.
ofcourse the USA made political decisions that were plainly WRONG and senselessly cost millions of people their lives - but so did germany, russia, spain, italia, greece, ... so what? does that make it ok to kill people who inhabit these countries?
this is not about politics, this is about human rights and respecting others lives.
sorry if you got me wrong...
I did not say anyone deserved anything at all.
I did not say that someone has the right to kill anyone.
I said nothing was ok.
I said that if you want to see who the victims are you should look all over the world. Everyday. Not once. Not in one place.
And if you care about what happenned, you should find out WHO IS TO BLAME FOR. And do what YOU can to prevent such things from happening again.
The only thing i blame Americans for is IGNORANCE.
But their government is no worse than ours (or anybody's else). Our "leaders" do not do such atrocities only because they do not have the power to. If they had, they would do exactly the same thing.
As for ignorance i do not blame americans only. I blame Greeks as i blame everyone who is ignorant.. It is just that i think that Americans have the "convenience" to be a little bit more ignorant.
As for civilians matter. You and I had the choice to become civs or not. (Actually I do not as I am forced to join the army for some time). For a lot of countries WE did not give th pleasure of such choice (not for some time but for their whole lives).
What makes me angry is the fact that now when it was USA who was hit EVERYBODY write/sais/shows etc. how bad this was, how cruel, how wrong to kill civs. Some months ago NOBODY GAVE A SHIT about the thousands of Yugoslavians, Croatians, Pakistani, Libyans (and so one) CIVILIAN INNOCENT people, who died because OUR GOVERNMENTS FILLED US WITH SHIT ABOUT DOING IT FOR SOME JUSTICE they are the only ones to know about.
The greater part of this world is on "war" -this terrorist war as it has been called- and it seems like if this is not happening. Nobody talk about it, no one cares about those innocent people and those civilians.
As i wrote, my only hope is for that to change. For US PEOPLE to start seeing that WE are to blame for. Our governments who rely on the fact that we do not care about politics. We think that we can do nothing about it. OUR tolerance lets them do what WE suffer and cry for.
I hoped that because Americans suffered so much they would start thinking about what happened and not go the easy way out, regenerating the very same thing.
Human rights and others' lives respect IS politics. We need to start thinking about what is happening on the whole world. Not only our shiny beautifull USA/EU countries. We should try to change what we think is wrong, because no one else will.
I think that we all here have the imagination to dream of a better world. Not a lot of people had the opportunity to become such. We should make something out of it...
PS Maybe we should keep a moment of silence about what happened. But then we should silence forever for what has been happening until now. Then maybe it would be better to shout...
I did not say anyone deserved anything at all.
I did not say that someone has the right to kill anyone.
I said nothing was ok.
I said that if you want to see who the victims are you should look all over the world. Everyday. Not once. Not in one place.
And if you care about what happenned, you should find out WHO IS TO BLAME FOR. And do what YOU can to prevent such things from happening again.
The only thing i blame Americans for is IGNORANCE.
But their government is no worse than ours (or anybody's else). Our "leaders" do not do such atrocities only because they do not have the power to. If they had, they would do exactly the same thing.
As for ignorance i do not blame americans only. I blame Greeks as i blame everyone who is ignorant.. It is just that i think that Americans have the "convenience" to be a little bit more ignorant.
As for civilians matter. You and I had the choice to become civs or not. (Actually I do not as I am forced to join the army for some time). For a lot of countries WE did not give th pleasure of such choice (not for some time but for their whole lives).
What makes me angry is the fact that now when it was USA who was hit EVERYBODY write/sais/shows etc. how bad this was, how cruel, how wrong to kill civs. Some months ago NOBODY GAVE A SHIT about the thousands of Yugoslavians, Croatians, Pakistani, Libyans (and so one) CIVILIAN INNOCENT people, who died because OUR GOVERNMENTS FILLED US WITH SHIT ABOUT DOING IT FOR SOME JUSTICE they are the only ones to know about.
The greater part of this world is on "war" -this terrorist war as it has been called- and it seems like if this is not happening. Nobody talk about it, no one cares about those innocent people and those civilians.
As i wrote, my only hope is for that to change. For US PEOPLE to start seeing that WE are to blame for. Our governments who rely on the fact that we do not care about politics. We think that we can do nothing about it. OUR tolerance lets them do what WE suffer and cry for.
I hoped that because Americans suffered so much they would start thinking about what happened and not go the easy way out, regenerating the very same thing.
Human rights and others' lives respect IS politics. We need to start thinking about what is happening on the whole world. Not only our shiny beautifull USA/EU countries. We should try to change what we think is wrong, because no one else will.
I think that we all here have the imagination to dream of a better world. Not a lot of people had the opportunity to become such. We should make something out of it...
PS Maybe we should keep a moment of silence about what happened. But then we should silence forever for what has been happening until now. Then maybe it would be better to shout...
fear leads to hatred...
hatred leads to suffering...
Master Yoda
hatred leads to suffering...
Master Yoda
I think BUSH is alot worse than MANY other leaders around the world :)
And its scary that one man (esp him) can control the richest country with the best(?) army around...
They allreay said that the NATIONS wherefrom the terrorists came will have to pay.. hearing that makes you understand what assholes americans are.
And its scary that one man (esp him) can control the richest country with the best(?) army around...
They allreay said that the NATIONS wherefrom the terrorists came will have to pay.. hearing that makes you understand what assholes americans are.
lator: bush is (or atleast behaves like) an idiot, but that doesn't say ANYTHING about americans at all.
facts:
- not everyone who lives in the usa can vote, so let's assume that about 80-90% of those there can (don't know the real values here)
- less than 50% of those actually went to the last vote. that leaves around 45% of the american population
- *almost* 50% of those 45% (remember? when all votes would've been counted together, gore would've won) voted bush
- that leaves about 20% of the american population that seemed to want bush being there president.
so better now forget the trash about americans being assholes coz their president is telling shit (yeah, i know, many non-bush voters will probably agree with what he said, but then again, many bush-voters won't, so wtf)
facts:
- not everyone who lives in the usa can vote, so let's assume that about 80-90% of those there can (don't know the real values here)
- less than 50% of those actually went to the last vote. that leaves around 45% of the american population
- *almost* 50% of those 45% (remember? when all votes would've been counted together, gore would've won) voted bush
- that leaves about 20% of the american population that seemed to want bush being there president.
so better now forget the trash about americans being assholes coz their president is telling shit (yeah, i know, many non-bush voters will probably agree with what he said, but then again, many bush-voters won't, so wtf)
something just crossed my mind:
when we think about terrorists, we think about people living under bad conditions in suppressed countries, building up HATE that makes them want to fight against what they think is responsible for thier bad situation.
- The Unabomber was professor for mathematics.
- Osama Bin Laden is really, really rich.
- Ulrike Meinhoff was student and from a good family.
- One of the Pilots made his diploma at TU-Harburg.
It seems that all individual persons i can think of, terrorists with a name and a face, have a very different background to what we suspect.
I havn't pushed that thought to the end, but the "HATE-theory" might be wrong although it seems so plausible.
when we think about terrorists, we think about people living under bad conditions in suppressed countries, building up HATE that makes them want to fight against what they think is responsible for thier bad situation.
- The Unabomber was professor for mathematics.
- Osama Bin Laden is really, really rich.
- Ulrike Meinhoff was student and from a good family.
- One of the Pilots made his diploma at TU-Harburg.
It seems that all individual persons i can think of, terrorists with a name and a face, have a very different background to what we suspect.
I havn't pushed that thought to the end, but the "HATE-theory" might be wrong although it seems so plausible.
psyche>USA HAS FUNDED AND CREATED ALL THOSE TERRORISTS BUT WHEN THEIR WAR IS FAR AWAY FROM USA YOU DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE THOUSANDS WHO DIE. YOU DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE DESTRUCTION YOU HAVE CAUSED TO MILLION OF PEOPLE by killing, bombing, creating civic wars, denieng pharmaceutical supply, embargoing and so much more.<
very nice said psyche, maybe to rough but true...
...but anyway this with WTC was really shocking!
very nice said psyche, maybe to rough but true...
...but anyway this with WTC was really shocking!
Iam happy to say now that i was very wrong back in 2001, Bush has proven to be a world leader with class and intelligence and has been taking good actions.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Quote:
am happy to say now that i was very wrong back in 2001, Bush has proven to be a world leader with class and intelligence and has been taking good actions.
Thank you.
lol
Eight years later and the world is not destroyed yet. Nostradamus prophecy fail. LULZ!
