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I'm beginning to think that a comeback is in order

category: general [glöplog]
What do you guys think?
added on the 2002-11-19 21:37:30 by McARThur McARThur
I bet they miss us.
added on the 2002-11-19 22:44:31 by Dr. fART Dr. fART
You can never get too much art
added on the 2002-11-19 23:19:25 by Scratch Scratch
all is full of art.
its all around you.
added on the 2002-11-20 00:19:14 by psenough psenough
twist your head around
it's all around you
added on the 2002-11-20 00:23:48 by tomaes tomaes
I thought so... some Pouet visitors may noy like large downloads and slow visuals, but I bet they can appreciate some ART.

From sceners, for sceners I say.
added on the 2002-11-20 01:08:18 by McARThur McARThur
welcome to the very first demoscene soap-opera ;-)
added on the 2002-11-20 01:51:09 by moT moT
added on the 2002-11-20 04:21:49 by irvin irvin
well, its a free world, if you want to do shit and call it ART then do shit and call it ART. you are entitled to do so. who are we to stop you? knock yourselfs out.
do shitloads more! maybe on the next 5 you realize half way you could be doing decent stuff and bother doing that instead.
added on the 2002-11-20 05:43:05 by psenough psenough
Yeah, but filling pouet with 5min made crappy prods is not art. I can do the same :( (Maybe i should add my crappy 99/00 prods)
Art is subjective... So prepare yourself to always meet people that find that what you call Art is (for them) pure shit.
And as we say in my little town...

"Even shit tastes"
added on the 2002-11-20 10:03:08 by MooZ MooZ
blaeh! yes! surely we'll come back.

seems our own prods are always less popular than our ART ones, no matter the effort on them, no matter the tech your used on them, all the time you'll get an stupid "no.", "no way", "this is crap" comments, so there's no chance, so........ ART! and be happy SPAM commented and popular!
added on the 2002-11-20 19:57:31 by nculARTe nculARTe
added on the 2002-11-20 20:00:13 by Optimus Optimus
if your aim with doing demos is to be popular you
should bother learning what it takes to impress others instead of doing what you want.
check what the big groups do. not what they did, what they aim to do on the overall picture.

be original, dont reuse effects seen before unless they are better faster and on smaller size.
take things to extreme.
make them look smooth and lush, eye candy.
polish everything. add more layers.
get a designer to do the design not a coder.
USE PROPER AND INNOVATIVE MUSIC, not the damn shit trance again!!! use effects combined with proper momentum on music, music that actually fits the effect beeing shown, ask the musician for sync ideas, they have alot more and smarted ones then the usual coder.
and on top of that do quantity without spoiling quality, and then, then your stuff will be popular simply because its impressive.

though i see no point in doing stuff for sole purpose of beeing popular besides soothing your own ego.
which most sceners seem to have no problem working hard to achieve.
there are other easier ways to get respect of others though..

added on the 2002-11-20 20:17:51 by psenough psenough
added on the 2002-11-20 20:58:44 by jb jb
Behold art lovers

BB Image

BB Image

BB Image

sorry I have to leave now I have something in my eye.
added on the 2002-11-20 21:01:27 by Scratch Scratch
ps: "check what the big groups do. not what they did"

Big groups only? Use them as a role model of sorts, you mean?

"what they aim to do on the overall picture."

There are different goals for different people and different times.

"get a designer to do the design not a coder [...] and on top of that do quantity without spoiling quality, and then, then your stuff will be popular simply because its impressive."

That looks like a job description. Where's the fu**ing fun in that?

I thought about the design of Minimal Animal 3.
I wrote a little bit of code for Minimal Animal 3.
I did the visuals.
I put together a soundtrack, which a musician reworked later _because he wanted to_, not because I needed that in order to make it impressive.

We had a lot of fun doing that. Short-lived, but fun.

Ok, since we're being a bit thick like my friend said, here's the answer you've been looking for; hope it satisfies you:

I wanted to understand why someone in his right mind would bother doing boring and pointless demos like "Chimera", or the Satori crap, or some MFX shit, let's not forget $.

A week later, I don't know why THEY did their stuff, but I know that there may be a point for them to do it. Maybe not popularity (even tough these specific examples seem to have gained some), maybe not "impressive" - but there was something in it for THEM.

And, frankly, that's enough for me. Other ART members may have different points of view.

The question now is: why would _you_ like ART to stop producing demos?
added on the 2002-11-21 00:41:11 by McARThur McARThur
Seeking for popularity?...a primary goal.

Surely I offuscated the term _popularity_
no, I meant:

comments showing some sort of advice, or argumented complaints, NOT the usual "no","this is shit","no please" comments, comming from (especially) unproductive people at pouet.

I personally tried, several times as a coder, around the 85% of the things ps ,suggested latelly.

But that _normal_ demo, passed away on the Lastest added prod chart, (like a chinesse in chinaTown during Halloween night), obtaining more audience some crappy prods like Chimera, _ ...

One (over a million) of the reasons of doing demos is to gain audience, thus gain advices,feedback to improve in the future, so this NOT happens at pouet, decent prods quickly vanishes, in favour of the more controversial ones

So, pouet is a real demo comunity?¿ It's useless?¿
added on the 2002-11-21 01:34:00 by nculARTe nculARTe
i think there are times when murder is justified.

added on the 2002-11-21 02:04:01 by nosfe nosfe
we all get that you didnt get the point of chimera sator, mfx and kooma stuff. that you find it crap.
we all get that ART demos are just your way to try and tell everyone else that you think they are crap.
"even i can do this crap and call it art"
boring and dull, in a desperate attempt to try and get everyone else to agree that the other stuff is just as bad as yours.

but the thing is, they do their stuff and truly like it.
they dont just do crap, claim that its meaningfull, pretend to like it and call it art.

its pointless to discuss whats art and whats not.
every true artist knows that.
its left for the bored experts to judge.
and what the fuck do they know?

you dont feel you are getting enough attention?
other peoples crap is getting it for you?

your desperate attempt to mine their efforts from within is totally pointless. they will keep doing what you consider crap because they like it like that.
and people will keep considering ART stuff to be the real ART crap.

the only thing usefull for you to do is decent prods.
but you're too busy doing joke bullshit stuff to bother.

indeed its fun, it makes some people laugh, i cracked my ass off laughing too.
it upsets the uptight, some understand your cause and support it others just wish you would stop posting crap on pouet.net

you could do 5000 ART prods, your point would be the same as after doing 2. nothing would change, only you would be getting more pouet.net people pissed at you for spamming shit even after point has been made.

point which as you know hasnt change or will change anything.

hell, majority of people likes the boom boom trance crap with dcs colours and highly advanced boring as fuck code effects (oh look another metaballs effect, this one features a nastier normals trick and is even further optimized, and wow it even is see-through and not matching with the music one damn bit whatsoever).
majority of people doesnt like the arty-crap demos,
what the fuck are you even complaining for in the first place? all the fucking retard gamers respect alot more the proper 3d camera scenes with boring as hell flyby, shagging white flashes on the bassdrum and pseudo-psychedelic trip references.
why do you even care if people bother doing it properly and some few actually see through the crap and call it art?

is it just jealousy for others beeing able to do abstract stuff and get away without beeing totally flammed by retards who only see demos as a technical benchmark which have a nifty pace and show some code+naked chicks?

some people like coding stuff that actually fits with the music, thats a graphical output of what the musician was feeling, what he was trying to capture, what he was trying to transmit. not the now comes a slower part in the music, lets use a slower effect bullshit coders design.
some people like doing music that takes you places, gets you in a certain state, a certain corner, gives a certain feeling. instead of the boom boom trance crap that just makes you dance when you are drunk enough.
some people bother with trying to make messages, explain things they think or thought, feel, felt, want and wanted to say but couldnt, things they feel the need to hide, things they want to make sure they have the courage in them to publicaly state, give messages, show design, expeculate. instead of just throwing 5 highres pics of naked chiks put some cheesy words here and there to make people loose time reading so the effect doesnt look as dull and win some shit compo.

wtf are you even complaining about in the first place?
they are the uncomprehended ones. not you.

do more 42358793 ART demos.
maybe one day you'll get the point behind the halcyon, mfx, satori, kooma, $ crap.

i just wish you would stop acting like confused jealous kids and would actually do good stuff instead.
but i should have known, kids will be kids.

people did the "its just crap why do you like it? im gonna do crap and give it to you so you realize crap is crap and not like crap anymore" back in 98 already man, they grew out of it and stopped caring, just doing their own stuff (and striving at it)

whats taking _you_ people so long?
its easier to do crap fun prods then real ones uh?

added on the 2002-11-21 02:07:43 by psenough psenough
hei, i hardly get any comments on my stuff and the few ones i get its mostly negative.
do you see me going around trashing and annoying everyone at pouet ?

they dont like it nor care about it, fine.
why are you doing demos for them anyways?
do demos for yourself.
you cant please everyone. you are better off just pleasing yourself. its alot more fun too.
added on the 2002-11-21 02:11:03 by psenough psenough
spoken like a true prodigy.

hail ps! :)
added on the 2002-11-21 03:45:36 by irvin irvin
ps: Word!
added on the 2002-11-21 07:13:28 by uncle-x uncle-x
Yeah! MS Office :)
added on the 2002-11-21 08:00:23 by Optimus Optimus
MinimalAnimal's problem is that they don't understand what makes something "art", but that's OK. You can judge a demo by the quality of the textures, the effects, the framerate, the optimisation, etc etc. When you judge art you have no scientifically measurable metrics to judge it alongside. So MinimalAnimal think like scientists not artists. Does anyone care, or expect any different? Not really...

Its a shame that the execution of their little game is flawed in scientific ways as well, in that the code's buggy and the execution of the ideas is poor. I reckon that makes a pretty loud statement in itself.

Ironically, if their aim was to make us question the value of art in demos, the whole thing, the PERFORMANCE art of what they have done may have been considered art in that it makes us think. But something tells me this was accidental. Plus, as other people have said, it gets old very quickly, and lack of progression in the art world is just as much of a crime as in the demo world, so, peh.

Sorry to sound like a Liberal, but why does it have to be a stupid fucking flamewar between art and demos in the first place? The best demos on here, that make the best artistic impression are the ones that do it without feeling the need to overstate the fact with cliched ideas and sub-teenage scenepoetik. Maybe we're worrying about nothing after all?

Hey, fuck it, here's a formula for you scientists.

Code = art = art = code
added on the 2002-11-21 11:19:59 by MrMessiah MrMessiah


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