pouët.net

rob: i guess you are right. i could add "yeaaaaaaaaa lets kill all immigrants, they are here to take oooooooour joooobs! and women, and if they dont work, they are here to smoke weed and steal and rape blablablbabal"

Moving to the right seems like a fresh breeze to me.. stagnating to the left and the Seventies is not a good thing in the long run.

preacher makes sdp-fan panda very sad :(((

Don't get caught in the obsolete left/right paradigm. The left and right side of the political elite often work for the same goal, which is usually against the interest of the people. As Alex Jones says - it's not about left and right, it's about right and wrong.

Right, left & right camps get close to the same thing.

However, manners differ a lot.
Sarkozy's success is based on fear,
about losing money, security, privileges etc.

Organizers haven't spread the unselected ones so we might see them a bit polished in a later compo again.

Some of them were so disappointed that they will probably quit the scene.

"Obsolete" doesn't cover it. Ask a hippie and a conservative if Hitler was left- or rightwing, and you'll get two different answers; it's really all about primitive group mentality, and a primitive need to have enemies you can hate, even if those people are only your enemies because they also need someone to hate. Please hate the liars and the religious psychos. All the other people want exactly what you want, just maybe with different priorities.

doom and other: i disagree, right and left has really different methods and focus different things. our "socialists" behave more or less like liberals , but sarkozy and the right wings clearly turned to right extremism these last years.
What we need is more left+ecology, because here, school and research is demolished. Sarkozy only build prisons.

For french people: interesting tool, google rules as always:
... and it prooves (if it was needed) there are more liberal dumbs in paris, and more socialists in toulouse ;-)

JSYK, a lot of great moderate socialism thinkers were from the south west of france. this guy, jean jaures:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Jaur%C3%A8s
...is the founder of "moderate socialism", he acted for pacifism and could prevent world war1 in 1914, but he was murdered by french right people. ( At that time, hate of germany was teached at school.) What french people ignore most of the time, is that his murderer was * ACQUITTED * in the name of the national reconciliation in 1919. I 'm sure sarkozy ignore that (about some things he said).
.... BTW, in the blum government (1937-1939) , 2 socialists ministers were also murdered by right winged orgs (la cagoule, the future "L'OREAL")... and frenches also ignore that.

krab00b: I didn't say the right doesn't tend to have more psychos than the left. But to hate and disagree with a politician simply because he is "right-wing" - which is what you imply that you're prepared to do by even calling him right-wing - means closing your mind to anything constructive he might have to say.

If what he wants is tax cuts, more riches for the rich, more industry even if it pollutes, etc., hear him out and maybe disagree with what he says. Cause it's small-minded to disagree with who he is. It also won't get you anywhere, except maybe it'll make him disagree with who you are and then you've only made everything worse.

And anyway, one-dimensional politics are soooo 1920s.

Actually in the Netherlands we saw a move back to the left after the last elections (although there was also a smaller movement of voters to a new ultra-rightwing (and very anti-moslim) party.

Ah, yes, the 70's, when the little village I grew up in had two bus-lines, it's own medical post, it's own police station, it's own postal office, two secundary schools, etc. (all gone now after 25 years of tax reductions by free market fundamentalists). Nope, we wouldn't want to go back to those days, now wouldn't we? :-)

And what are YOU doing about it? :)

Rob: actually I am trying to do something about it :-) I'm a member of the dutch socialist party and although I admit I could be a bit more active then I am right now, I have done my share of helping to spread campaign flyers during elections from door-to-door :-)

Ok, I have not said a thing in that case ;)

Sparcus: but those times won't be back, at least not with the way the Finnish left handles things. I don't have much respect for the national coalitiion party (finnish mainstream right-wing party), but at least they might do something about things unlike the socialist party which mostly concentrates on accumulating wealth for its supporters, giving out money for nothing (except to people who really need it) and keeping it's eyes closed and hoping everything is okay in this world..

hehe i foresee the comeback of political demos :D

True, I'm also not saying that we should do that. The biggest problem currently IMHO is that there seems to be a race to the bottom. Instead of cooperating, countries are trying to compete on lowering taxes, making it easier to fire people, etc. so that they can attract more companies than other countries do. To reverse that process all countries would need a left government that starts increasing taxes again and improving the righs of their workers again. I think that's not very realistic. I do think that we need to find a balance somewhere though and that that balance is currently shifted a bit too much towards the right.

You guys really don't get it do you. IT DOESN'T MATTER!

Nicolas Sarkozy or Ségolène Royal.

François Bayrou.

Ségolène Royal would certainly be the hottest leader in history. She's a fox and therefore would get my vote if I lived in France.

these days, i rather tend to think in terms of the hip and trendy liberal/crap paradigm!

sadly, there's only 1 party left in holland that's not liberal, so i can't even have a good conversation about these things anymore.

What do you have against liberals exactly? ;)