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Discussion: Usage of D3DX in 4k intros

category: general [glöplog]
las : i never said "any DLLs" mkay ? i'm against DLLs which are nothing but a real cheat ( what d3dx almost is, at it has only _helper_ funcs and that's why it was/is separated from end-user d3d libs ). on other libs i totally agree with ryg ( see his posts im hell load of other similar threads ).
d3dx contains a code you need (have) to use, but you can cheat by not implementing it yourself and thus saving some space. let's then use adobe photoshop plugins as a little texgen improvement ! bah...
added on the 2005-09-29 18:58:30 by apricot apricot
rmeht: yes, but that's the wrong version of the lib ;) (if you want to use msvcrt.dll instead of msvcrt[70|71|80].dll)
added on the 2005-09-29 19:29:19 by kusma kusma
4k coders should concentrate on low level coding to get 100% performance out of the hardware. Sound should be banned as well.
demopope: really? never noticed. well, in fact i'm not used to cstdlib. i have my own lib fo those things :)
added on the 2005-09-29 23:21:26 by rmeht rmeht
rmeht: really.
added on the 2005-09-30 11:58:00 by kusma kusma
MadenMann that's what we do ;)
(but of course with sound ;))
added on the 2005-09-30 12:07:32 by las las
well, it kinda sucks that 4Ks have gone from pure optimization to OS hacking.. but unless we ask ppl to have bootable 4Ks that don't need any OS, then we'll have to deal with DLL stuff.

But the answer should be simple: it should run on every standard machine without additionnal downloads. ie. it should run on a fresh installed and up-to-date version of the targetted OS.

If d3dx_xx.dll isn't part of winXP with the latest DX and service packs, it should be run.

Same thing for SDL: it's now part of most Linux distros so it's normal for it to be allowed on Linux, but not on Windows.
We should stop that OS hacking and start making bootable 4Ks.
added on the 2005-09-30 19:11:47 by BarZoule BarZoule
comeon, the functionality which is provided with the d3dx dll is not that much. it is nice that it can calculate the normals, and that it can create boxes, spheres and even teapots - but comon. after some time ppl will get bored seeing the same over and over. if you are clever and have a cool 4k framework e.g using the same routines for textures, sound and mesh objects you are ways smaller than calling those functions.

our 4k framework was based on opengl and we ported it to directx because of the more possibilities e.g shader... but without the directx extensions e.g for matrix operations this would not have been worth it.

i think as long as the rules are the same it is fair. it is not about hacking an os, it is about getting more out of the same (machine, os...) than others. this is what demoscene was/is all about.
added on the 2005-09-30 19:32:27 by peci peci
with d3dx, coding in d3d has serveral advantages, as you already mentioned (and i mentioned before; "the functionality which is provided with the d3dx dll is not that much" imho it provides a lot of functionality, it's not just normals and teapots. http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/directx9_c/dire ctx/graphics/reference/d3dx/d3dxreference.asp).

As long as some parties don't allow d3dx and some parties allow it, it's imho not "fair", because you get two subtypes of 4k-intros, those that do not use d3dx and those that do.
added on the 2005-10-01 11:01:47 by las las
i wonder how many of those arguing for having it have already moved over to using d3dx for their 4ks..

i guess whereever breakpoint goes the rest will follow, so lets hope the bp organisers make a good and informed decision, as im sure they will, and this debate will be over.
added on the 2005-10-01 11:29:19 by smash smash
to allowed it, we should have the same func in opengl. else it's unfair.
added on the 2005-10-01 11:42:48 by skarab skarab
skarab, you're a lamer.

(otherwise you'd know that you can link to d3dx when using opengl.)
added on the 2005-10-01 11:59:38 by smash smash
smash i dont want to use DX !
added on the 2005-10-01 12:02:12 by skarab skarab
people on linux hve to code on win to make d3dx shit for 4ks ?
added on the 2005-10-01 12:02:50 by skarab skarab
BB Image
hitchhikr t'es un gros connard!
Go hand in hand with your friend Dipswitch and Unlock: you've the same level (LOW).

I repeat

BB Image
hitchhikr t'es un gros connard!
Go hand in hand with your friend Dipswitch and Unlock: you've the same level (LOW).
added on the 2005-10-01 23:56:03 by ep ep
BB Image
hitchhikr t'es un gros connard!
Go hand in hand with your friend Dipswitch and Unlock: you've the same level (LOW).

I repeat
BB Image
hitchhikr t'es un gros connard!
Go hand in hand with your friend Dipswitch and Unlock: you've the same level (LOW).

http://www.angelfire.com/az3/dipslap/index.html
added on the 2005-10-02 00:31:28 by ep ep
*bump*
added on the 2005-10-02 02:48:06 by psenough psenough
Anything that is inside an "up-to-date" (all patches / updates and so on applied) system should be allowed. This includes any (then) available DX version and even gm.dls.

Use of those dlls in latest intros should be forbidden.

Oh and EP: Considering the stuff you're linking you seem to like dick. In that case, best practice would be to get your moron ass creamed by that drunken stinkin' trannie whore that used to be your mother. Thank you.
added on the 2005-10-02 06:12:52 by PigPen PigPen
Allowing D3DX was indeed a step forward for 4k intros. And disallowing it again will be a step backwards (though this will be quickly negated by the ever increasing capabilities of 4k coders). But I agree with most people here that these possibilities should not be offered if they are not part of the standard installation.

Saying that D3DX is unfair to OpenGL coders in nonsense. The rules are the same for everybody. If you chose not to use the available possibilities (by using OpenGL and/or Linux), that's your choice.
added on the 2005-10-02 12:44:09 by Blueberry Blueberry
forward, backward. Just reverse the direction and it does not feel wrong anymore!
added on the 2005-10-02 21:05:52 by _-_-__ _-_-__
What is it that feels wrong?
added on the 2005-10-02 22:25:07 by Blueberry Blueberry
I guess the question is outdated now since Microsoft released a new redist with all D3DX dlls so far? :)
added on the 2006-01-02 22:51:22 by Gargaj Gargaj
i still HATE d3dx.
added on the 2006-01-03 00:36:08 by bzz bzz
4k demos should be allowed to use BASS
added on the 2006-01-03 17:20:08 by noouch noouch
Gargaj: Guess so. At least the BP compo team regards the issue as solved, as d3dx is now allowed in the compos.
added on the 2006-01-03 18:13:26 by scamp scamp

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