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NextGen videogame consoles are crap // Will Wright and the demoscene // rebellion against PS3, Xbox2, Nintendo Revoltion

category: general [glöplog]
Quote:
Was YOUR allegiance bought at the price of a television?

Then there’s the Nintendo keynote. Nintendo is the company that brought us to this precipice. Nintendo established the business model under which we are crucified today. Nintendo said “Pay us a royalty not on sale, but manufacture.” Nintendo said “We will decide what games we allow you to publish”—ostensibly to prevent another crash like that of 83, but in reality to quash any innovation but their own. Iwata-san has the heart of a gamer—and my question is, what poor bastard’s chest did he carve it from, and how often do they perform human sacrifices at Nintendo HQ?

http://www.costik.com/weblog/


Quote:

Will Wright: Why The Demo-Scene Matters

Far away from this world, however, was a small tribe of people who were devoted to the ways of the algorithm. "That tribe is the demoscene," Wright said. He had to wait for the thunderous applause from the audience to die down before he could continue by saying, "These guys are basically crazy." Amid the laughter, he noted the things that they would do: long computer animated movies (demos) which could fit into 64 kilobytes of space; algorithmically generated graphics and audio; extremely small footprint ray tracers, phong shaders, and other methods of 3D rendering. Eventually, the many tribes codified their ritual and have found ways to "Get together and practice their black arts." Pictures from demoparties like Assembly elicited laughter and applause from the audience.

Wright again went back to his title and changed it so it read: "What I learned about content from The Sims… and why it's driven me to procedural methods… and what I now plan to do with them."

What he did was recruit an "elite team of crack programmers" with roots in the demoscene (the accompanying picture of people dressed in black ninja garb garnered quite a few laughs, likely because of its hint of truth), kept them in a "hidden developer facility", and had them make what the crowd was about to see. "Normally I don't do demos," he explained, "But I wanted to give you some sense of why I'm excited by procedural methods." He then switched one of the displays to his computer and began the presentation of Spore.

http://www.gamasutra.com/gdc2005/features/20050315/postcard-diamante.htm


Quote:
Entwickler rebellieren gegen die neuen Konsolen

21.03.05 - Spiegel.de veröffentlicht einen Artikel zur Game Developers Conference, in dem sich Entwickler über die Verstaltung und Branche äußern.

Der Entwickler Greg Costikyan sagte auf einer Podiumsdiskussion: 'Ich weiß nicht, wie es Euch geht, aber die Dinge, die ich hier auf der GDC über die Zukunft der Spiele gehört habe, verdeutlichen mir die Zukunft der Industrie. Mit der Ankunft der nächsten Konsolengeneration wird der ganze Produktionszyklus eins höher gedreht.
Wir werden uns von Fünf-Millionen-Dollar-Budgets zu achtstelligen Etats hin bewegen. Wir werden uns von Teams mit Dutzenden von Entwicklern zu Teams mit Hunderten bewegen.'

Costikyan glaubt, dass diese Entwicklung der Tod der innovativen Spiele ist, denn wer so viel investiert, würde im Zweifelsfall auf Sicherheit spielen: Man müsse deshalb mit immer neuen Fortsetzungen, grafisch aufpolierten Ideen von vorgestern und langweiligen Film- und Cartoonlizenzspielen rechnen.

Auch über die Größen der Industrie äußerte sich Costikyan kritisch. So über Nintendo-Präsident Satoru Iwata, der in seiner Rede sagte, dass er 'das Herz eines Gamers' habe. Costikyan fragt sich, 'welchem armen Bastard er das aus der Brust geschnitten hat und wie oft in Nintendos Hauptquartier Menschenopfer dargebracht werden.'

Sein düsteres Fazit: 'Heute können Sie keinen innovativen Titel mehr veröffentlichen, wenn sie nicht Wright oder Miyamoto heißen.'

Auch Sims-Entwickler Will Wright sieht die Gefahr durch immer größere Budgets, Teams und eine Industrie ohne Risikobereitschaft. Als Antwort auf die Probleme, hatte er auf der GDC seine ganz eigene Antwort, die er 'prozedurales Entwickeln' nennt. Die Idee: Ein Spiel soll dem Spieler vor allem Werkzeuge an die Hand geben, mit deren Hilfe er Inhalte so frei wie möglich selbst kreieren kann. Entsprechende Algorithmen sollen dafür sorgen, dass die Entwürfe dann auf dem Bildschirm auftauchen.
CLICK (Spiegel.de: 'Entwickler rebellieren gegen neue Konsolen')

http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzkultur/0,1518,346970,00.html

Der Star-Entwickler bezog sich auf die Methoden der so genannten Demoscene - das sind besonders sparsame Menschen, die ganze Egoshooter in 64 Kilobyte Code packen können. Die historischen Wurzeln der gerade in Deutschland starken Bewegung stecken in den Bildern und Animationen, mit denen die frühen Cracker einem frisch vom Kopierschutz befreiten C64-Spiel ihren Stempel aufdrückten. Wright ist begeistert von den sparsamen Methoden der Demo-Macher. Deshalb hat er ein kleines Team von ihnen angeheuert, um zu zeigen, dass es auch anders geht als mit einer Scheune voller Grafiker und Programmierer.


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added on the 2005-03-21 20:43:18 by freeze freeze
Sorry for the fucked up bbs code.
added on the 2005-03-21 20:44:43 by freeze freeze
häh?
added on the 2005-03-21 21:04:12 by dairos dairos
added on the 2005-03-21 21:20:12 by ie ie
I don't even know who this Will Wright guy might be.
the only important thing that you need to know is that he was clever enough to rip off the +10 years old concept of sim earth and now tries to sell it as groundbreaking innovative thing


added on the 2005-03-21 21:52:28 by xeNusion xeNusion
Spores sounds much more complex and interactive than Sim Earth... anyway the concept of Sim Earth was his own, so that would be auto-ripping in the worst case :)
added on the 2005-03-22 00:18:39 by exocet exocet
Quote:
NextGen videogame consoles are crap


They're not even out yet, but we believe you. TOTALLY. (what the hell?)
added on the 2005-03-22 01:13:55 by Shifter Shifter
DREAMCAST IS THE WAY TO GO!

Dreamcast si teh futare?
added on the 2005-03-22 01:18:26 by keops keops
dreamcast si teh futare, a dutchman will be formula 1 champion this season and i enjoy peeing on electric fences for entertainment.

anyhow... so errr.. which demosceners are working on willie's sim-everythingymabob then?
added on the 2005-03-22 01:39:14 by havoc havoc
Ah, okay. He made SimEarth. I've heard of that, even tried it once. But ultimately it did nothing for me.
shifter: Better read what the first guy said on his website and don't connect this to the poster (in this case: me), will you? :)
added on the 2005-03-22 01:45:55 by freeze freeze
I suppose Will is an avid Hugi reader.
added on the 2005-03-22 01:56:10 by Adok Adok
I read the stuff. As far as I can see, the poster is the one posting quotes that are sparsely, if not lacking the load of the topic. Also, don't make suck a mockery of bbcode, if you want people to read it, you monster :)

[img]http://www.costik.com/images/costik.jpg[/img
"I AM A PROPHET OF DOOM!" RAAR!"

After all, the dreamcast was a failure, since the ps2 would be coming *any* year now, and was *way* more awesome -on paper. The Xbox would herald the apocalypse too, iirc. Tomorrow, GAMES WILL BE SO REALISTIC PEOPLE CAN'T SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GAME AND REALITY ANYMORE!

Perhaps the noose is a bit tight, but It's not the consoles you should be worried about (besides, they're only crap if they're not suitable to make demos on, right guys? ;))
added on the 2005-03-22 02:09:14 by Shifter Shifter
i fixed freeze's bbcode for the sake of topic usability/readibility/whatever
added on the 2005-03-22 04:35:47 by psenough psenough
Guys, it wasn't freezes idea to advocate the dreamcast here.
The interesting point is that DESPITE technical advance there seems to be conceptual stagnation in computer games and the quite well-known Will Wright (the sims, sim city,...) is naming the procedural approaches of the demoscene as a possible inspiration.
While surely a lot of people switched from demos to producing games, the fact that demos can inspire games got a bit lost since the early nineties.
added on the 2005-03-22 08:33:16 by Spin Spin
adok, i heard plek will now rip your head off! \o/
added on the 2005-03-22 11:07:32 by skrebbel skrebbel
Spin: I wasn't being ironical at all, nor was I trying to nag freeze. I do like the Dreamcast!

I was nimbly insinuating that despite its old hardware, the Dreamcast can still bring a lof of fun and entertainment :)
added on the 2005-03-22 11:25:08 by keops keops
Same here. Proud owner of two Dreamcasts, wish I had more. Wouldn't play Rez any other way.

However, that was some poor posting you did, freeze ;)
added on the 2005-03-22 11:34:07 by Shifter Shifter
Err... by the way guys, I haven't said something like "everything is bullshit, hail to the DC"... at least in this topic. :)
added on the 2005-03-22 14:25:51 by freeze freeze
we never said you did. SO DROP IT, BEFORE SOMEBODY LOSES AN EYE :)
added on the 2005-03-22 16:38:49 by Shifter Shifter
i think the Dreamcast is PURE SHIT and i can't wait for the Apple iConsole with all the coolest games from ps2 and xmicrobox running on it!!!

*boots Crazy Taxi 2*
added on the 2005-03-22 16:47:00 by okkie okkie
freeze and shifter: would you like to join us (Skrebbel and I) to have a nice c\~/ ?
added on the 2005-03-22 16:47:11 by keops keops
everything is bullshit, hail to the DC
added on the 2005-03-22 22:57:07 by sauli sauli

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