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you suck! (bashing demos...)

category: general [glöplog]
Some people here said that peoples comment about different productions doesn't say anything about the production. My ass it doesn't, I know what people have quite similar taste to mine, and if they think a prod rocks, I will for sure DL it and watch it. And actually, macaw does not suck just because people don't understand his personality. In fact he said "this is cool, though the music is not my style (or any style at all?) " about my ms2k+2 64k, which reflects that it's a very personal opinion, although probably the first positive remark about something I've produced I've gotten from him :). It's just like with any other reviewer (movies, music), you gotta pay attention to the ones that have the same taste as you do. And adrenaline was cool but way too long, if they'd made it half as long and still would've shown everything they did it would've rocked more. And btw, I don't like the music in it. :)
added on the 2002-04-10 13:33:43 by steffo steffo
I agree that lot of the comments on this site is arrogant and dumb. It cant be fun to work several hours with a prod and then, when feeling satisfied and happy release it on pouet.net. Then people on this site throws stupid comments and say it sucks , worst ever seen, learn to code and blabla.

We need to give each other positive comments or critisism in the right manner. Little more sensitivity. And remember that your comments are always your own thoughts. Scene ppl have feelings too.

Some glöppers should be banned for their harsh comments.

excuse my english, but you inderstand....
added on the 2002-04-10 13:44:56 by Ghidorah Ghidorah
The thing is, can we honestly expect everybody to be constructive without moderation? Do we even
want to censor non-constructive comments?

Everybody wants different things from Pouet cos everybody wants different things from demos. I think it'd be great if it concentrated on reviewing prods
from an artistic POV, but that's just me. And half the scene don't seem to accept the "demos = art"
argument either, so how do you deal with that problem?

Then there's the fact that most demos are closed source, so comments like "learn to code...", I mean
even if you've decompiled the prod, its ridiculous. Most prods are left on here with little or no input from
the people who created them on what is going on
under the hood. Is this a good thing? Would it make
more constructive comments if the info-texts gave a
little more away, or are we all supposed to be so 1337 we don't need to be told what we're seeing :)

All this isn't supposed to be a bitch at Pouet, just the contents of my head. I don't think active modding is
the answer, but some comments seem eminently kickable.
added on the 2002-04-10 14:25:33 by MrMessiah MrMessiah
I'd rather call it documentary than art to show a funpark in 10minutes.
oh my god.. never ever i have seen such stupid postings as there are in here... but thanks for the laughs. there was a couple words of wisdom from some people but in general.. tsheesh boys.

...and the old demosceners were once taken as the most arrogant ones.. even that seems to be history these days. kids, dont do drugs, stay in school.
added on the 2002-04-10 17:53:17 by hooligan hooligan
JeeSuss, I thinks its trues.
Alot of you fuckwits have egos the size of small planets, and its no wonder why you hate everything anyone else does. You dont do fuck all yourself, and when you do, you make sure you say it sucks, and you didnt try, cos your sister was on her rags or some shit.
When you get older you will prolly get cancer cos you are going to turn into a dried up prune, with all your negativity.
Nobody minds critique when it helps them improve, but for the sake of being an egotisitical fuckwit, its pretty boring.
How enjoyable is it to make fun of somone who asks a question or for help?
Maybe its to make up for your one testicle, or your impotence or speech impediment or such.
Get a life, lose an ego, suck your own cock, and then

Have a musical day.
added on the 2002-04-11 04:06:00 by IZM- IZM-
I have an idea, let's all just stop writing this bullcrap here at pouet wich is obiously full of dumb fucks who know nothing about demos or scene spirit but still think they have to tell everybody else how it is. If we wanna make a point, let's put the message in our productions. At least that way I won't have to read the shit from some lamer redneck who doesn't even contribute to the thing he's breaking down with his horeshit.

we rid most our demoparties of lamers, maybe it's time we do the same for this great site that binds us today.

Oh, and before anybody feels attacked personally: fuck you. And with 'lamer redneck farmanimal fucker' I do not mean 'entusiastic newbie', because newbies are cool and I hope they breed because we need more of them.
added on the 2002-04-11 10:27:37 by Inopia Inopia
This discussion is totally senseless....

It's like "Palästinenser" against "Israelis".
Concentrate on GOD and find freedom...

I hope you will,
added on the 2002-04-11 21:59:41 by 0x$$ 0x$$
added on the 2002-04-11 22:56:57 by jazz jazz
Hmmm... I'm quite offended to read all this comotion on this quite qualitative demo. Maybe the sprites of people were a bit random and ugly but the scenes in general were nice (I guess). Maybe it does get a bit long after a while, a bit repetitive and that's where the artistic part is left behind. It becomes to mechanically engineered and too much of the dsame for the audience (in terms of enjoyment of the demo Adrenalin).

I would of wished for Adrenalin to go more in the discovery side of things instead of just pumping out 3DS object after 3DS object like a manufacture or something. But I guess that was part of the art? Maybe pop art? I dunno. They could of added a rollercoaster for god sake! I enjoyed that superb rollercoaster scene in TOASTED (it's just awesome even in 2002), 1996. If Pascal was making demos today, you'd have something far more enjoyable than Adrenalin, for sure.

The oh god no another techno track theme was way too bloody cheezy techno with flashy "oh yeah" stuff that I plainly ignore (I basically turn the sound off). They could of made a more dramatic piece of music, right? I thought the intro to Adrenalin was emphasizing too much on "we're gonna show you these machines IN ACTION" and basically that's all that you see for around 5 minutes which I feel like it's a bit discouraging at the end cuz we end up seeing just another 3DS model spinning around and some peopel sprites just randomized and oh god that sucked. Kudos for the models thoe, they are GREAT!

Finaly verdict probably would be: Hey great effort, but next time hire an art direction agent.
added on the 2002-04-12 02:02:13 by 33 33
There is just one things to say...as an oldskool-scener...when I started in the scene there was many more respect and tolerance for the work of other groups or guys. Even when the release wasn't that good the audience payed repsect just because someone put in his talent, time and creativity to produce something for us...the scene!
Nowadays a production gets dizzed because someone doesn't like the style. I miss the old scene-spirit and if this movement continues that just any lamer that is jealous of others' productions nerves us with their comments here.
pouet seems to be overcrowded by pseudo-sceners that just want to lame around.
if you don't respect the works of others...just shut the fuck up and keep your opinion for you...if you have really constructive critics to present to the scene...write it down...if not...stay offline and don't waste space on the server.

thanks for listening...Raven/Nuance ;)
added on the 2002-04-12 11:17:41 by Raven^NCE Raven^NCE
My thoughts exactly
added on the 2002-04-12 14:37:06 by hooligan hooligan
I think that the sceners aren't any more whiny today than in the "old days", but it's just way easier to whine when we got forums on the internet like this. One does not have to dislike something alot to complain about it on the net.
added on the 2002-04-12 15:31:49 by steffo steffo
raven: well said
added on the 2002-04-12 17:48:52 by psenough psenough
what raven said
added on the 2002-04-12 18:12:26 by Inopia Inopia
beautiful words, indeed.

"i have a dream".
added on the 2002-04-14 18:29:14 by skrebbel skrebbel
if some-one didn't like my demo, if i would want him to diss it. i would don't want bullshit comments like "well that wasn't the most amazing thing ever, but i'm sure your next one will be better!". that would be more insulting than "this shit sucks and you suck and you must die!". besides, i might get flattered if you diss my release <g>.
added on the 2002-04-15 10:55:57 by _ _
don't =want
added on the 2002-04-15 11:02:49 by _ _
I'd just like to gatecrash this discussion with a couple of comments;

When I discovered the PC DemoScene, it was at the very end of the Amiga's life. I downloaded a lot of the 4K demo's and full demo's as well. The thing that struck me most was just how little has changed since the Amiga DemoScene days. In the days of the Amiga, it seemed that there was a real sense of 'this is new', 'noone has done this before' attitude to the output of demo groups. Now it seems that there are a group of very talented people who just don't know how to present the skills they have in any other way than 'oh aren't I good, look at the number of aliased textures I managed to wrap round that eight sided pendulum'. I think the demoscene lacks good storyboard people, generally. If there was a competition every six months for demoscene people to show their 'work-in-progress' for storyboard based demo's, then the emphasis is going to be on demonstrating in the best and most technically excellent way how that story unfolds, but there are rules of course. The skill is in telling the story and everything progressing intelligently, so the presentation becomes seamless and not just a jumble of pounding beats and warping shapes.
added on the 2002-12-27 15:13:32 by evil_sock evil_sock
BB Image

LOVE ME ! \o/
added on the 2002-12-27 16:45:48 by alexkidd alexkidd
evil: In the school days it was much more common to brag about numbers and achievements than today. Plus, storytelling sucked much more in general.

Most demo designs have always been abstract in nature. Many times by necessity, but there is a real identity in demo design as an independent style (artform?).

My point I guess is, I'm not really sure what you mean. Today there are many more demos being produced than back then, and the number of really good ones is more or less similar. Take those and ignore the rest. :)
added on the 2002-12-27 17:08:12 by Jare Jare
If the 'artform' you refer to consists only of repeating what has gone before then it is repeptition not art.

Art in this definition should contstanly strive to perfect and innovate if it must, but to abtract would be to branch out and evolve - the majority are not abtract.

Storyboard - think about the intro's to the best games you have ever seen - scene's that demanded the very highest of skill to manufacture, yet put together, create a story or 'introduction' that in itself could be considered art.

Lava lamps have been around for twenty years or more by the way, and you don't need a GeFGorce 4 Ti $4600 to get the best out of it either ;)

added on the 2002-12-27 20:33:56 by evil_sock evil_sock


Evil: when I think about the few best cinematic intros in games, yes they were the result of hard work and creative design. Most of the "rest" was just derivative or underbudgeted work.

Frankly, the same applies to demos. And books. And movies. And music. Most of the stuff is derivative, with only a few creations being worthy of high praise and recognition. Shifting demos from repeating classic demo styles to repeating classic cinematic styles doesn't really make them any less of a repetition.

I haven't really decided if I believe demos to be an a form of art. Jackie described how forms of creativity with a particular style and culture can be considered artforms, and that makes sense. Notice that labelling demomaking as an artform doesn't suddenly elevate it (or its creations) into a "higher" status, but does help in analyzing the phenomenon using already established patterns and research.

Trying to force the evolution of demos in a particular direction is the exact opposite of fostering creativity, don't you think?
added on the 2002-12-28 13:43:23 by Jare Jare


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