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TMDC7 Site Launched

category: general [glöplog]
will you accept xbox?
added on the 2004-09-27 19:08:04 by Shifter Shifter
no taat repliers on pouet?
added on the 2004-09-28 02:38:00 by the_Ye-Ti the_Ye-Ti
actually if you're smart enough you might be able to do hardware accelerated rendering in textmode :)
added on the 2004-09-28 09:34:58 by Gargaj Gargaj
I happen to know one guy who did hardware accelerated pageflipping in textmode. I'm not sure it was really hardware accelerated, rather just offloaded to the OS, but it failed on most graphic cards on notebooks drivers. Besides, the code had to be different for classic and NT-based Windows. Shaky.
added on the 2004-09-28 14:12:38 by eye eye
Does one need to be smart to do hardware-accelerated rendering in textmode, Gargaj? ;)
added on the 2004-09-28 14:55:28 by kusma kusma
See, this is what I'm talking about. How easy would it be to set up a non-visible buffer, render to it using hardware 3D, and then convert it to 80x50 using sol's library? That's why I think the current rules of TMDC are messed up. They are allowing DOSBOX for this next round, so I guess they already support extra stuff but it seems too nebulous.

We need a *real* textmode compo.

BTW, for our last textmode prod, 24-bit -> textmode conversion was 3 seconds per frame on 2GHz machine (MMX optimized) so I think the only last frontier for TMDC are rules that specifically DISallow sol's realtime "4096 color" library.

Sorry if I sound bitter... I'm not, I would just like a real textmode compo.
added on the 2004-09-28 22:06:57 by trixter trixter
seriously, that library should be banned from the compo - mostly because it effectively uglifies everything!
I think the *mega* resolution of 80x50 takes care of that with or without that lib.
added on the 2004-09-28 23:15:30 by Shifter Shifter
BTW, for our last textmode prod, 24-bit -> textmode conversion was 3 seconds per frame on 2GHz machine (MMX optimized)
O__O how did you do that ? What was the resolution ? 16384 x 8192 ? Or did you do some kind of magic stuff ? If so, please post an original 24bits picture and its textmode conversion. Thanks
added on the 2004-09-28 23:27:37 by p01 p01
"Magic stuff" was brute-force comparison of every single combination to arrive at the combo with the best PSNR. We applied some sharpening and a weighted colorspace comparison too. The real "magic" was optimizing 20 seconds per frame to 2-3 seconds per frame.

Full source will be released sometime next year. We plan on adding realtime decompression of video and audio to boost it to 60fps and more than 16 colors through mixing.
added on the 2004-09-29 02:47:46 by trixter trixter
And yes, still on 8088.
added on the 2004-09-29 02:51:13 by trixter trixter
so.. this took 3 whole seconds?
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added on the 2004-09-29 15:22:56 by the_Ye-Ti the_Ye-Ti
Sol has already made statement a long ago regarding the most restrictive rules, and why they are there.

The main point is that any VGA tricks etc. you can do in textmode effectively transforms the text mode to a high resolution graphics mode (albeit with a few restrictions).

Also if you want text mode stuff to work properly in windows console applications, the TMDC rules are compatible with that aswell, but if the rules would be loosened then you wouldn't be able to watch the text mode prods properly in win console windows anymore retaining maximum compatibility.

Trixter's latest text mode production is just another example that you can do impressive stuff in textmode without any VGA tricks etc. Might be cool if you could optimize your brute-force lookup a bit, or downgrade it a little bit to produce a result which is almost as good but being faster. :)

About using Sol's textfx library - the TMDC7 links page lists few other libs as well for textmode output like AAlib and libcaca. And if you have paid attention to past entrants, there's actually quite many which do not use textfx after all.
added on the 2004-09-29 17:52:29 by tonic tonic
trixter, including advanced code is easy, making it run fast is the hard part.
tonic: That still doesnt answer the question about an invitation?
added on the 2004-09-30 13:40:27 by the_Ye-Ti the_Ye-Ti
Invitation is coming!
added on the 2004-09-30 13:46:09 by tarzan tarzan
Yeti: Yes, 3 seconds, on 1.8GHz Athlon.

Tonic: I understand that any tricks turns it into high-res, but his restrictions effectively transform the demo into a low-res demo. Forcing 80x50 on people, with no hardware tweaking or font changes, is just an arbitrary limitation that has nothing to do with text mode (given that sol's library is out there). To be fair, I will acknowledge that the winner of last year's TMDC was excellent and for once did not use sol's lib. I know I can't do anything about the rules, I'm just voicing my opinion. If it were up to me I'd call it the low-res compo, not textmode compo :-)

Rasmus: The decompression code is instaneous, I never wanted to optimize the encoder because that's not what the user will be seeing :-) As it is, nearly 60,000 comparisons are being done per pixel group so it is already optimized (by gODjR, using MMX assembly).

All: aalib/libcaca/sol's lib are nice for realtime conversions but absolutely none of that was used for 8088 Corruption. The conversion in 8088 is completely different and takes the target hardware's structure into account.
added on the 2004-09-30 18:15:36 by trixter trixter
Trixter, so it's more about semantics.. maybe you have got a point there - that it might be more exact to call the compo something different. If that would be the case, I think even better name would be "console demo compo" then (except for the possible misunderstandings for game consoles).

Saying it is low-res wouldn't just be enough, since you can obviously make the low-res text mode look better even with the standard charset if you choose the used characters well. :)
added on the 2004-09-30 22:13:56 by tonic tonic
My points exactly, tonic :-)
added on the 2004-09-30 22:48:16 by trixter trixter
you can always save your non-textmode textmode demos and deliver them to altparty or mzg. :)
added on the 2004-10-08 16:59:26 by psenough psenough
I think even better name would be "console demo compo" then (except for the possible misunderstandings for game consoles).

Not to mention the confusion of textmode demos on consoles (wait for it).
added on the 2004-10-09 05:02:51 by Shifter Shifter
tarzan: ah thats grreat news
added on the 2004-10-10 01:45:31 by the_Ye-Ti the_Ye-Ti
yeti, please make something at least as good as mooit. i loved that one. we all did. or, well, if we didn't, then i did, still.
added on the 2004-10-10 02:01:26 by skrebbel skrebbel
Mooit was pretty darn good =).
added on the 2004-10-10 02:22:05 by Nezbie Nezbie
Invitation is now available!
added on the 2004-10-31 17:56:07 by tonic tonic


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