Kitsch on the scene?
category: general [glöplog]
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Because the first of anything cannot rely purely on established conventions?
The definition provided doesn't say "purely", and "3D graphics with music" was established outside the scene before it could be done well in real time.
argh
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And i think the demoscene tends to add another layer of complexity with the technical context, which makes it less kitsch in my opinion.
Similarly garden gnomes become real pieces of art if we add motor to them?
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When i tried to explain the demoscene to my sisters they said it looked like kitsch to them
One (rather obvious?) way to argue against demoscene being kitsch might be to point out that a lot of visuals are pretty abstract of their nature which seems to go against the definition of kitsch.
Though the situation may look worse if we consider standalone graphics compo entries instead of actual demos.
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Faux oldschool stuff.
Can you elaborate?
Basically, almost all demoscene productions could be classified as kitsch.
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Quote:And i think the demoscene tends to add another layer of complexity with the technical context, which makes it less kitsch in my opinion.
Similarly garden gnomes become real pieces of art if we add motor to them?
I think he/she perhaps meant that technical aspect of the artifact puts it in (some) context. Lack of context is one of the things that constitutes kitsch IMHO.
Here’s from the provided definition of kitsch:
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the focus is on surface appearance and immediate visual impact
The focus of a demo could be on a technical feat, on conquering new ground, on abusing the hardware in a way that the hardware designer never intended it. In which case the observer has to be sufficiently educated to be able to really appreciate it. In other words, the observer cannot make a sound judgement of such artefact solely on visual merit or “immediate visual impact” if you will.
Or, to go back to the garden gnome analogy. What if the gnome was made out of repurposed candle wax and without using hands, if it was sculpted using feet and mouth only. Still not art? Or? What if it wasn’t a gnome but a can of Campbell soup?
I asked:
And got the answer:
Exactly @Frost.
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What’s kitsch in the demoscene? Nearly all of it?
And got the answer:
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Basically, almost all demoscene productions could be classified as kitsch.
Exactly @Frost.
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What’s kitsch in the demoscene? Nearly all of it?
Aren't a vast legion of demoscene products something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOC7L91CxyU (ASTRA by p01 / ribbon)
It's another matter whether that's good or bad in terms of art but the definition of kitsch doesn't quite seem to fit.
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The focus of a demo could be on a technical feat, on conquering new ground, on abusing the hardware in a way that the hardware designer never intended it. In which case the observer has to be sufficiently educated to be able to really appreciate it. In other words, the observer cannot make a sound judgement of such artefact solely on visual merit or “immediate visual impact” if you will.
Hmm, it seems kitsch is discussed in the context of architecture and yet also architecture has more than meets the eye like demos, right? It seems that it's the visual aspect of the building that is judged in this context.
So we might have to open a wider question about the role of technique in the evaluation of art.
Hmm... I guess quite many people actually consider demo's technical and aesthetic aspects separately.
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What if it wasn’t a gnome but a can of Campbell soup?
I think 'Campbell soup' piece is supposed to have some kind of conceptual idea behind it. This gives us a third aspect in addition to aesthetics and technique. However, this aspect may be rather absent in the demoscene ...Well, at least some demos have a political message like so many pieces of contemporary art. But was it also absent in the pre-20th century art?
@la_mettrie : I was wondering (I asked this before, but nobody answered).
What do you think?
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https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=94784
Is this kitsch?
What do you think?
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Is this kitsch?
(this = "The Legend of Sisyphus")
The coverage of my experience in modern (popularish) visuals is probably seriously lacking so I'm far from the best critic here. But if I have to answer, I wouldn't say yes.
Some material or aspects in the product may hint towards comfortable music video aesthetics but then many visuals seem rather abstract and/or coarse to me.
That the work has a concept behind it which is represented in far from obvious manner (watch the compostudio...) seems clearly imply that it has something meaningful beneath the surface, possibly even strong symbolism? This may be rather unusual in the demoscene..? All this is sort of antithetical to the idea of kitsch. The context of dramatic myth itself might make a difference here.
(I didn't pay attention to the technical aspect here, just audiovisuals and the conceptual side)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0HHXgGYSOA (compostudio, start watching at 26:00)
@la_mettrie:
Fair enough.
I must say that I failed to "read" the story by just watching the demo, without the author's explanation. However, since so many people seem to be able to read and understand/appreciate it, I guess it's my own perception devices that are lacking, not the actual presentation/storytelling itself.
Fair enough.
I must say that I failed to "read" the story by just watching the demo, without the author's explanation. However, since so many people seem to be able to read and understand/appreciate it, I guess it's my own perception devices that are lacking, not the actual presentation/storytelling itself.
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"I must say that I failed to "read" the story by just watching the demo, without the author's explanation. However, since so many people seem to be able to read and understand/appreciate it, I guess it's my own perception devices that are lacking, not the actual presentation/storytelling itself."
I'm not sure if most people actually could follow it (at least I couldn't (and truck couldn't) though I have serious issues with attentiveness anyway).
This takes us to yet another set of big questions like what is the importance of the symbolical level and storyline in a piece of art and how they should affect the experience of watcher etc.
(I once tried what ChatGPT says about watching Godard and it suggested concentrating on feeling and atmosphere instead of trying to force oneself to immediately understand the symbolical level and multilayered meanings ...not necessarily a bad advice)
I also wouldn't trust so strongly the reaction of the audience. Initial reception and latter reputation of artworks have often been rather different and there's nothing wrong in disagreeing with others.
Hieno kysy,ys Franz. Vittuun kaikki "AI"
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Hieno kysy,ys Franz. Vittuun kaikki "AI"
Gfxte dkdgdhdn vdgdiomsfsjskrtbdkd bdtdjdmfsrd!!!