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To Unity or Not to Unity

category: general [glöplog]
What ever rocks your boat! :)

I'd just go with something that feels good. Then when it stops feeling good, jump on to another thing.

Also when participating to compos the voters can subjectively judge the end results how they please. Some like custom engines, some don't really care. Some like aesthetics, some don't really care etc
added on the 2020-04-20 15:17:54 by waffle waffle
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Unity and unreal prods belong to the wild compo. They are not demos. Deal with it lamers.

*suspicious_fry.jpg*
added on the 2020-04-20 15:21:51 by Gargaj Gargaj
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Deal with it lamers.


Deal with what? It's your ridiculous, abritrary criteria. It's your problem. You deal with it. The rest of us are too busy making demos and being happy about that.
added on the 2020-04-20 17:05:20 by jobe jobe
it is funny how 95% of the people who vote "just use UE/Unity ffs, do what you like" are strongly voicing an opinion regarding something they are not really involved with other than being on the cosumer end of things.

You do realize that this matter heavily affects the current people who are actually coding?

I am active in demoscene, because I like the hardcore coding aspect - i.e. doing stuff without huge ready-made frameworks and libraries. This means you actually learn how things work and what your code is doing. And I like comparing the stuff I come up with to things the other guys do, who are using roughly the same tools.

So coders like myself are now in a situation where the rules are being changed, out of their control. It probably can't be stopped.

So here's the options I see:
- start coding UE4/Unity stuff (not interested, see above)
- switch to coding 64k/4k (not interested)
- switch to some other platform (AMIGAAAH!)
- quit the scene
- concentrate on ideas/design instead of technical coding as a means to compete with UE4/Unity productions

All options besides the last one are not very healthy for the pc demo category..
But yeah, maybe the new kids will save the day with their mad unreal skillz. we'll see.
added on the 2020-04-20 17:56:23 by spike spike
@ham: you mean the "same" audiovisual experience... KILL THE ENCODER! ;-)
added on the 2020-04-20 18:02:34 by RufUsul RufUsul
yawn.
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it is funny how 95% of the people who vote "just use UE/Unity ffs, do what you like" are strongly voicing an opinion regarding something they are not really involved with other than being on the cosumer end of things.

How absolutely misleading and utterly wrong if you just bother clicking on the profiles of the majority of persons in this thread and checking their prod contributions. Try harder.
"Boo hoo I cannot win on my own terms, the scene is dead"

The PC demo compo at Revision was won without Unity or UE4. What's stopping you?

Also, it's not like most of the people saying shit like, and I quote, "programmers are mostly lazy bitches", have all that many actual production credits to boast about either.
added on the 2020-04-20 18:47:47 by jobe jobe
Using tools for demomaking has been around as long as the demoscene itself, the question is where (and if) to draw a line.
Would you hate on a production because the tune was made with protracker and not a custio synth? Probably not. Do you hate on groups because they make their own demotools to make their life easier? Probably not. Would you hate on groups using demotools made by other groups if they suit their needs... well, probably not.

The thing with modern demos on PC is that things get a lot more complex with time and that means if you really want to do everything from scratch as far as possible it either takes up half of a lifetime or it cant compete with premade tools and engines (who usually have a whole team behind them). At it doesnt really matter if those are called Werkkzeug or Tooll or Unity, UE4, Notch and whatever else is there. Use what you feel like, judge others how you feel like but dont try to set rules where theres no sane way to set them.
added on the 2020-04-20 18:54:27 by wysiwtf wysiwtf
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it is funny how 95% of the people who vote "just use UE/Unity ffs, do what you like" are strongly voicing an opinion regarding something they are not really involved with other than being on the cosumer end of things.
wrong

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You do realize that this matter heavily affects the current people who are actually coding?
yep

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So here's the options I see:
I've got one, do what you want and make shit

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
added on the 2020-04-20 20:23:41 by ferris ferris
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- concentrate on ideas/design instead of technical coding as a means to compete with UE4/Unity productions

If "technical coding" means "render scene graph" then yes!
added on the 2020-04-20 20:25:09 by Gargaj Gargaj
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Unity and unreal prods belong to the wild compo. They are not demos. Deal with it lamers.


Ok boomer
added on the 2020-04-20 20:56:50 by okkie okkie
Lol :)
added on the 2020-04-20 20:59:44 by farfar farfar
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Quote:
Unity and unreal prods belong to the wild compo. They are not demos. Deal with it lamers.


Ok boomer

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added on the 2020-04-20 21:17:47 by keops keops
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How absolutely misleading and utterly wrong if you just bother clicking on the profiles of the majority of persons in this thread and checking their prod contributions. Try harder.


Well, enlighten me: which are the great pc demo coders in this thread i overlooked? For obvious reasons I was not referring to 64k or 4k coders. And who said I was only referring to this thread?
added on the 2020-04-20 21:57:10 by spike spike
As someone who doesn't use frameworks or tools at all ... or wait, do i? Isn't my browser to search information already a tool? My texteditor? Nasm, Fasm, Tasm? Scripts? What does real coding mean anyway? That i constitute an electrical field with my mind, and flip RAM bits with it? Does this one count as the only recent "real" coding?

Seriously, i admire all forms of digital demo art. These shiny PC demos are just gorgeous and often sport a fantastic soundtrack. I wouldn't want to miss them! If somebody didn't code for this, well, then he didn't. People seem to like it anyway. And if it's so easy to do, then by all means, go for it and win a compo!

Good luck =)
added on the 2020-04-20 21:59:01 by HellMood HellMood
Yeah, whatever guys.

You know what? Then stop talking out of your arses and just do away with all those different categories like 64k, 4k, wild, amiga, blabla anyway (as was already suggested), put everything in one big compo.
added on the 2020-04-20 22:20:52 by spike spike
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guess imerso's booze and drugs got sent to spike.
added on the 2020-04-20 22:43:25 by psenough psenough
Just to clarify, psenough is not on my list of geniuses. To me he is just a below average somenothing. The image that comes to my mind when I see his nick is of someone that sucks many balls and tries to become famous by reflecting on other people's talents.

Anyway, back to the point, I did not say that this is harder to compete against Unity and Unreal prods. The point was that if everyone starts to use them, some of the beauty of the scene will fade out, that was it. As an old observer myself, I always like some of the great talents that shined through the little, direct to the metal prods.

And last but not least, although I never competed on the biggest parties (mostly because they also did not allow remote entries until very recently -- and please don't forget or try to hide that detail), I did win one of the two where I was allowed to submit. And in the other, I got a 2nd place. Also, in both I just made some quick prod with very little time spent, as I don't really have much time for building demos. I would not mention this, but this was brought to the discussion, so here it is: I won 50% of the compos I entered. Do not be so quick to put me down.

But ok, as most of you, I am also tired of this discussion. I only wanted to give my final opinion on this (imho, very ugly) trend of bloated "demos", but I see that this won't go anywhere.

That is right, do whatever you want, the way you want.
added on the 2020-04-20 23:19:17 by imerso imerso
As last words, thanks to you guys who understood the point. You are right, the art won't die.

On this particular thread, Spike, don't be afraid nor affected by the aggression. You created some nice demos already, and I'm sure that you have lots of talent to spare, winning a compo or not.

Best wishes to everyone!
added on the 2020-04-20 23:47:19 by imerso imerso
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added on the 2020-04-21 00:07:56 by Optimus Optimus
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just stop posting threads to project your insecurities. learn to meditate or something.
added on the 2020-04-21 02:32:37 by psenough psenough
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don't be afraid nor affected by the aggression


Fuck right off with that persecution complex. No one is directing any aggression at all towards the code-your-own-engine approach. It's you purists who are the aggressors here. It's Holid, declaring that programmers are "lazy bitches" while having zero production credits himself. It's Nuclear, passing judgment about who's a lamer and what is not even a demo.

It's you, saying shit like...

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To me he is just a below average somenothing. The image that comes to my mind when I see his nick is of someone that sucks many balls and tries to become famous by reflecting on other people's talents.


...and then having the fucking nerve to do that song and dance, that performative tearful solidarity against us haters who want to take away your IDEs. Piss off.
added on the 2020-04-21 04:09:42 by jobe jobe
Lol, Optimus, I did not know that meme, but will take that as a great advice and retire myself. I am, indeed, too old for this place.

Goodbye, fellows.
added on the 2020-04-21 06:29:12 by imerso imerso
Yep, you're definitely too good for us. Have a great time somewhere else <3
added on the 2020-04-21 06:41:35 by Preacher Preacher

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