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The Gathering versus Mekka Symposium

category: general [glöplog]
crest: yes, one party is all about standing around a fire and boozing :) didn't mean that one...
but actually still quite alot of german sceners see mekka as a boozing meeting (and last year there also was a fire, not in the hall of course...)
anyways, what the heck. let's go there and see.
actually I can't give any comment to TG as I've neither been there before nor at any time paid alot of attention to it. that does not mean I hate it or something like that...just not that big interest in it. but last but not least a demoparty still is only as good as the sceners attending it. so if someone likes to go to TG, where's the problem ? he's supporting the scene and telling he's a lamer because he does miss the holy mekka is just even lamer.

added on the 2002-02-12 10:15:48 by styx^hcr styx^hcr
100% ack to styx's last 3 sentences here!!
Simply SUPPORT the (=YOUR) scene you claim to be a part of finally!
Doesn't matter where that will take place...the MORE places sceners are present and show their cool work the BETTER it is and it won't go down and 'die'...!
Easy as that...!!

Stop complaining...start _supporting_ what you are PART of!!
added on the 2002-02-12 15:43:38 by Weasel Weasel
styx : The special thing about mekka ? It's not standing around the campfire and boozing there, although this can be quite funny. It's about meeting people. Sceners, not gamers. Mekka had something like 550 releases last year, that's incredible, the compos are fun year after year, because you know there will be high-quality releases on PC, on Amiga and on C64. Waiting for the releases there is something different than at TP where you're only hoping that the orgas don't fuck everything up.

It's just a great atmosphere. Being there with 1200 people and knowing that nearly everyone is there for the scene, not for playing games or getting rich or whatever. Boozing is nice, and it's usually fun, at least in my opinion, but that doesn't make a good scene-party.
added on the 2002-02-12 19:48:32 by nufan nufan
Sorry, nufan, please be more 'objective'...
Don't get me wrong...I'm also a big Mekka fan though...
BUT: let's take e.g. last year's mekka:
- many compo's have been delayed (heavily) also there...
- the display quality (caused by bad taping) was also pretty bad...
- they cut almost every demo and didn't show it till the END when there was any end/upscroller with credits...that's a really bad thing I disliked extremely last year...dunno why they did that! :-/
- do you really like watching ONE compo for more than 4+ HOURS in front of the big screen...just because there are that many (not just high-quality) entries...!!? I don't really...there's a certain point where you simply can't concentrate on that anymore...and this is unfair to all entries being showed from that time on...as people won't really 'vote' right anymore...
- especially last year's mekka also showed a certain lack of quality entries...there have been surely LOTS of entries...but was it really MANY _really_ blasting ones?

So you see...also mekka is not the 'ultimate' party ever!
I don't wanna put it down though...but I just want to show that we (=sceners) should be maybe a bit more _tolerant_ and not just 'fixed' to one (last) party-event left (just because everyone is saying so...)

WE are the SCENE...so WE can and definitely HAVE TO keep OUR events on a high level...and this means MORE than just ONE scene-party per year...

As I said in a post before: Do we really like to have just mekka left some day...and everyone releases their stuff there then? So we'll have like 1000 entries soon..!??? Would THAT be cool then for 'the scene' ?

Doubt that somehow....
added on the 2002-02-12 21:53:04 by Weasel Weasel
100% ack to nufan for the atmosphere.
But also the compo quality was mostly very good. The display quality was imo ok, cutting demos suxx of course (should be done only when a scroller is really way to long). Personally I still prefer showing the stuff live instead from tape, but it seems to be impossible with so many compos like at mekka where delays due to technical problems must be minimized. I can also live with moderate delays. It just shows that we are still humans and not perfect running machines.

Of course it would be nice to see also other big parties with a nice scene atmosphere, but then these parties must change and not the sceners. One positive point of TG, TP or ASM is that they can handle 3500+ visitors. Mekka has actually reached the limits when the organizers don't find a bigger location with the same infrastructure (and they must be of course able to pay for it).
added on the 2002-02-12 23:28:57 by Crest Crest
Yep, true, crest!
WE are _only_ humans...and NO one is perfect...sometimes it seems that some of 'us' (=sceners) are forgetting about that somehow! ;-)
But forget about a new location of mekka. they won't EVER change the location...as 'fallingbostel' is kinda 'cult' already. And as the village there is pretty small there isn't any other place to move with mekka without having to leave fallingbostel then! THAT'S the problem. Mekka wouldn't be Mekka for most people anymore if they changed location.
You're completely right that Mekka reached it's maximum limits meanwhile...last year was really TOO overcrowded for my taste already...so what to do if even more people wanna join 'the best and only left/worthy scene party' as everyone dropped out supporting any other (worthy) events in other countries?
It's not possible...that way you alss 'destroy' Mekka...as the organizers don't wanna enlarge it to any event like asm, tp, tg with 3000/4000+ people...

Everyone: Think about it maybe that way: ALL parties still left from the early days have been PURE scene-parties one day as they raised out of the scene as _sceners_ once started to organize such events FOR all sceners!
Ok, some of them changed these days to 'commercial' events for gamers as the (mainly not even scene-related anymore) organizers thought about the profit they could earn with such events...That's of course the bad decision. (It would have been better if those organizers simply startet a NEW event 'for gamers only' then..instead of letting the gamers take over the original 'scene-party'.
BUT: there's always TWO sides needed...also the sceners made some mistakes here sometimes...when simply being too lazy to show their _REAL INTEREST_ in the event..and just let it go..and don't care anymore to attend it over the years!
On the other side also some scene-events orgas made mistakes (look at TP 2k1 e.g.)...when starting to 'ignore' the sceners still there and prefer having game-compo events taking more time on the big screen than any real SCENE competition then...that way you surely KILL a former scene-party!

But well, if WE want to have REAL scene events the way WE wann ahave and enjoy them...WE should simply not 'just talk about it'...but also start CHANINGit to the better (again)...
Don't just talk about 'how bad everything got and that you think the scene is dying..and such CRAP!!'

That's the right way to strenghten it back again...and THAT'S the way to go!

Is that really THAT hard to understand/accept ??
added on the 2002-02-13 02:12:08 by Weasel Weasel
Yes, and one day we were all innocent children, nobody died of terminal cancer, relationships with girfriends lasted forever and we all could play along nice. Bill Gates was once a true hacker and programmer, but that didn't stop anyone slashing into him once he became what we all loved to hate.

Face it, sometimes the scene will have to abandon something it has cherished and tried to protect for some time. I don't hear any of you pansies cry over the death of the Gravis Ultrasound, the abandoning of 320x200x256 and Windows being the the choice of this generation.

Sticking to some party that has SO long ago stopped being scene-related is along the lines of sticking to those old beliefs: it's just not done anymore.

The only decency left is true scene spirit, and that doesn't stick to one party being the oldest or the most expensive. Scene spirit isn't a pissing contest, the compos are though ;)
added on the 2002-02-13 02:43:25 by Shifter Shifter
You can let it die and start a new one, as long as interest exists.
added on the 2002-02-13 03:58:12 by bigcheese bigcheese
isn't that what the demoscene is doing every generation?
added on the 2002-02-13 04:28:25 by Shifter Shifter
weasel: 100% ack about this 'scene is dead' thingy. It's quite sure that I die earlier than the scene ;-). But I don't think that Mekka is bound that strong to Fallingbostel as location. Ok, it's held there since 1997 and the movie '23' made some sort of cult about Fallingbostel, but I will also come to any other location when possible (except Düren maybe :->). But at least it's ok when the organizers will hold the limit of ~1300 visitors because I don't think that we'll have a 100% scene party with 4000 visitors in these days.

shifter: Gravis Ultrasound is officially dead, but it's 100% sure that I will never throw out my GUS. The same with plain DOS :-)
added on the 2002-02-13 06:46:12 by Crest Crest
hey, Fallingbostel is far enough for me :)
i think the orgos cancelled the "free entry for girls" thingy, because now they have +150 free places in Heidemarkhalle :)
added on the 2002-02-13 16:14:17 by Payda^pcn Payda^pcn
right now i'd go to any small non-lan-party in finland if there were any.. perhaps ppl have realized that it's a shitty job.
added on the 2002-02-13 16:55:48 by 216 216
Weasel : I didn't say that Mekka is the ultimate party and there are no other parties, but Mekka is a great party. I loved Dialogos the last two years, it was really great, or Evoke was some great party as well. Haven't visited too many parties (8 or something), thus I don't have a too big base for comparison.
added on the 2002-02-13 17:07:49 by nufan nufan
added on the 2002-02-13 17:47:00 by zden zden
zden: very nice, I can't wait to see it :-)
added on the 2002-02-14 04:43:54 by Crest Crest
yep. satori rules.
added on the 2002-02-14 10:22:34 by ryg ryg
yay, mindfukc at mekka :)
added on the 2002-02-14 12:10:34 by _-_-__ _-_-__
it was time...
time to conclude...
the winner of the demoscene!

----> Mekka! <---- won the battle!!

The Gathering lived a poor life.

Still is..

demoscene will die..

I haven't found the time to read this very interesting thread,. perhaps I will do it later. I just want to say that Weasel's writting reminds me a bit of some part of my crazy Whyes? Whynot? (Or how the hell was it called) article for an older HuGI mag =)
added on the 2002-02-14 15:12:10 by Optimus Optimus
U know,. capitals and stuff...
added on the 2002-02-14 15:14:14 by Optimus Optimus
come to TG.
added on the 2002-02-14 16:41:25 by Shifter Shifter
demoscene will not die the long the sceners are interested in it!
added on the 2002-02-14 17:35:32 by Crest Crest
In my opinion, it doesen't matter what party you are
attending so long you are producing something.
Ofcourse a party with lots of lamers aren't the perfect
place to be, but a party is as good as you want it to be ;)
activator: c ya @ TG02 =)
added on the 2002-02-15 00:47:01 by kroz kroz
Optimus: ;-) Well, that seems to be my 'typical style of writing posts' I guess... ;-)
Hope no one feels annyoed by that! It's just that I like to emphasize certain things of my messsages...and therefore I use capitals and other things to be able to point out a bit better what I want to express with my words...
You know: Just written words can be easily misunderstand by someone else if you don't SEE the person talking like at a party or anywhere _personally_ actually! ;-D

Nufan: Sure..you didn't say that...and I didn't read it like that! ;-) I just wanted to show off that people (sceners!) should always try to support as MANY events as possible to keep them alive as well...as this is for the scene(ers) themselves anyways, isn'T it? ;-)

Crest: That's the point I meant...mekka orga's won't change location as they don't want to make it a huge mass-party like any other existing events...so they stick to fallingbostel!
BUT: what do you wanna do if sceners will say in future (like some did here already!) that only mekka is the only scene-party left anymore...and will travel to MS only then?
More an dmore people will come to MS..and if the place is full...it IS full...but will _you_ talk to all the sceners in front of the door then to tell them that they can't enter the hall anymore? ;-) Not an easy decision though... ;-)
added on the 2002-02-15 18:44:32 by Weasel Weasel


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