pouët.net

Go to bottom

Use of UE et cetera

category: general [glöplog]
What does it for me:


  • Is it enjoyable to watch?
  • Is it novel?
  • Is it technically impressive?
  • Is it obvious that a lot of effort has gone into it?


I don't care if you use an engine where the function that it's performing has become commoditized. Nobody is writing their own software triangle rasterizers or 3D transform engines on PC anymore because GPUs are way better at it, but there was a time where we were having this argument around whether 3D accelerated demos should be considered demos. I remember thinking the same when tracked music started to give way to MP3s - how could tracked music stand up against a soundtrack produced using commercial software?

Hardware improves over time, expectations change, today's massive technical achievement is tomorrow's commodity library. Roll with it, or better still - make a demo about it.
added on the 2018-08-09 00:19:00 by bloodnok bloodnok
BB Image
added on the 2018-08-09 00:31:19 by numtek numtek
Saga Musix: Why is it pointless? Maybe for you it is pointless, maybe for more than a dozen people it is not.

Maybe we should just allow gamers to record 8 minutes of their gaming and allow that in democompos. I am sure there are more gamers than demosceners in the world, and make a poll. And see how many who think that is a good idea.
added on the 2018-08-09 08:41:38 by rudi rudi
Why don't we make separate discussions with and without straw man arguments?
added on the 2018-08-09 08:52:32 by absence absence
Lol
added on the 2018-08-09 09:19:39 by okkie okkie
Quote:
Saga Musix: Why is it pointless? Maybe for you it is pointless, maybe for more than a dozen people it is not.


On that point do we also want to split the music and graphics compos into two categories? Nobody seems to have a problem with that now do they?
added on the 2018-08-09 09:34:49 by djh0ffman djh0ffman
It is actually very easy to implement. Let's create a special compo for those who do not want to compete with the best. And let people choose whether they are up for the challenge or not. I guess since this "kindergarden" compo would be for people who are not competing, the places won't matter, so you can have everything there: uncompetitive music, uncompetitive art and uncompetitive demos.
added on the 2018-08-09 09:47:13 by introspec introspec
well i get the point that we have to move on, that things evolve, it's all nice and shiny and that.

however this requires some clear labeling for me, if it's labeled: fine.

i just want to be able to judge in the end if someone spent a lot time to work on a cool effect (code wise) or if someone "just" plugged an OBJ node into a geometry-to-particle-generator, twisted a few noise parameters and plugged that into a renderer.

the design amount is equally the same, i agree. but juding actual team skill is not.

and please: there are differences between libraries and authoring suites. i see them mixed up way too often here in this thread.
added on the 2018-08-09 09:53:50 by pro pro
In watchmaking, you have craftsmen who belong to (sort of) a scene called the independent watchmakers. They have yearly presence in the biggest watch conferences. Watchmaking combines design, art and engineering.

Their craftmanship varies. Some of them are teams, some of them individuals. Some of them make even every cog and part used in the entire clock, while others ask other craftsmen or companies to make some of these parts.

AHCI -- https://www.ahci.ch/

Two examples of the most extreme

Masahiro Kikuno -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1moRfIXCfak
Philippe Dufour -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZqNrGDk3q8

At the other end some will do one piece themselves, or focus on the assembly. Or the design etc..

Anyway the point being that it's a spectrum, and it depends on the kind of goals you have as a creator. There will always be disagreement because we don't have all the same goals and that's actually desirable, as long as a constant "negociation" and discourse exists within the scene.

I don't feel anxiety with judging/ranking, because I got over this very very very early in my scene presence.
added on the 2018-08-09 11:41:48 by _-_-__ _-_-__
Maybe they didn't mention Unreal anywhere, so people don't get triggered by the word "engine" and start an 11 pages discussion about the engine (what they feel is missing), rather than discussing the demo's creative elements (what is actually there). ;-)

Whose opinion regarding this topic really matters is from those groups who entered the demo compo at Assembly, did not rely on 3rd party tools or assets and ranked low. Will they be back next year with the new iteration of their tech? Switch to an engine? Buy/pirate better tools and mocap libraries? Or quit? What the voters/consumers want is not that relevant.

My 2c, quite interesting to read the different angles
added on the 2018-08-09 12:35:43 by r1g8 r1g8
I miss the good old days of the 90s, when groups like CNCD would never had released a demo using a self-made but commercial engine. oh wait
added on the 2018-08-09 12:43:15 by break break
djhoffman: funny. not sure what you are arguing about then :)

i've comed to the conclusion that it is pointless to discuss anything here on pouet.
it is pointless to have this discussion, whatever it may be. because what are we really discussing here? please explain, elaborate anyone, and don't put words into eachothers mouth.
added on the 2018-08-09 15:18:33 by rudi rudi
We're discussing whether or not to allow gamers to record 8 minutes of their gaming and submit that to demo compos!
added on the 2018-08-09 15:25:36 by absence absence
absence: okay. in that case, i am totally against it.
added on the 2018-08-09 15:28:50 by rudi rudi
Quote:
i've comed to the conclusion that it is pointless to discuss anything here on pouet.

Don't hate the discussion just because the majority doesn't agree with you. Sometimes you just gotta admit defeat.
added on the 2018-08-09 15:51:29 by Gargaj Gargaj
Quote:

Don't hate the discussion just because the majority doesn't agree with you. Sometimes you just gotta admit defeat.


don't see a majority, but some guys from the "engines rulz" fraction that abuse other opinions as "bunch of conservative assholes", "lamers" or pen-pushers, for which there should be kindergarden compos ...
"discussion" "majority" "defeat"
really?
added on the 2018-08-09 16:04:12 by reptile reptile
Demos are like sex. Everybody enjoy it, everybody have different preferences, but everyone will still try to force their own view of it to you.
added on the 2018-08-09 16:27:41 by maeln maeln
Quote:
"discussion" "majority" "defeat"
really?

If you go back in the thread and check how many people are against it (~4-5) versus how many people are either for or indifferent, then yes, it's a pretty clear majority.
added on the 2018-08-09 16:34:40 by Gargaj Gargaj
You didn't get it. Nevermind.
added on the 2018-08-09 16:39:04 by reptile reptile
@Rudi

Quote:

Magic: Maybe one day party organizers decide to split the PC demo compo to
commercial pc engine compo and non-commercial pc engine compo..

Saga: Or maybe they won't, because it's pointless.

Rudi: Why is it pointless? Maybe for you it is pointless, maybe for more than a dozen people it is not.

Me: On that point do we also want to split the music and graphics compos into two categories? Nobody seems to have a problem with that now do they?


I know it's hard to track things in this forum.
added on the 2018-08-09 16:39:24 by djh0ffman djh0ffman
Quote:
don't see a majority, but some guys from the "engines rulz" fraction that abuse other opinions as "bunch of conservative assholes", "lamers" or pen-pushers, for which there should be kindergarden compos ...


The "conservative assholes" (your words and not anyone else's in this thread, as far as I can tell) came into this thread claiming that anyone who makes a demo in UE is engaging in a trivial exercise and has all the real work done for them. I think the moral high ground was lost to begin with.

And why shouldn't they have their own compos? You want to win? Do what it takes, anyone who tries to stop you is a prick. You want to have fun on your own terms? Have fun on your own terms, anyone who tries to stop you is a prick. You want both? Then organize your own compos, instead of expecting everyone else to adhere to your subjective definition of "scene spirit".
added on the 2018-08-09 16:40:27 by jobe jobe
Quote:
The "conservative assholes" (your words and not anyone else's in this thread, as far as I can tell)


Page 10 ..

Quote:
came into this thread claiming that anyone who makes a demo in UE is engaging in a trivial exercise and has all the real work done for them.


nobody said this, but some understood arguments against using 3rd party engines with the full tool set delivered by the developers that way ..

But I second, that this discussion should be conducted by those, who compete in this special class (modern PC demos) and not by people like me that are not affected .. and I accept to have too little knowledge about that to argue more than on a abstract level ...
Quote:
Page 10


My mistake. Was searching for "ass", not "a-". But in turn...

Quote:
nobody said this


Page 1:

Quote:
This isn't something trival, as is is making a demo with UE4.


Page 9:

Quote:
Don't you agree there is a difference between 50% and 0% ?


Maybe it's just me, but I'm having a hard time reading that as anything else but total dismissal.
added on the 2018-08-09 17:09:42 by jobe jobe
djh0ffman: I think its a good idea when we see all the opinions in this thread. Music compos were split into mp3/streamed and tracked music compos. Graphics were split into raytraced and handdrawn compos. In the past. You are on point. Why not split democompo.
added on the 2018-08-09 17:17:56 by rudi rudi

login

Go to top