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Social awkwardness != arrogance

category: general [glöplog]
fully agree, except:

There is a distinct difference in body language, facial expression, tone of voice, use of vocabulary between someone not responding or being terse because they feel awkward or not sure how to respond...

by experience, it Vastly differs from person to person. i deem myself as a good reader when it comes to people and personalities, and i give you that in body language there are obvious marks (eg. feet pointing "outside" of the conversation means approachee wants to leave, etc.) but verbally i am pretty sure there are absolutely no bulletproof cues.
added on the 2018-04-05 14:42:46 by nagz nagz
I meant that it's a combination of those :)
added on the 2018-04-05 14:48:53 by Gargaj Gargaj
So, the off-topic conclusion is that Dodke is now Matt Current of Unique and Raimo is now Unique of Matt Current. Sounds legit. :)
added on the 2018-04-05 14:50:59 by psenough psenough
added on the 2018-04-05 14:59:45 by nagz nagz
Espeacially watching a team or friends from an outsidish single point of view can/will be absolutely going wrong. I don't like IRC, www-forums and text-chatting. That's lame in my mind! Chatting is so much wasted time and when myspace came on the people started going crazy and now we have yt and twiTTer ans such massive stupid things! Same with over-drinking, like taking the 5th bottle and then talking everytime the same things again and again and again... for decades without doing anything to grab on. The main topic will be alcohol in the end! oO That's lame and ppl calling me lamer, non real scener just makes me going away from them even more... pfft! I was for years in TS and Mumble with ppl from just germans to ppl (a lot of females too!!!) from mostly all countries on that potato. Situation: People was talking a lot, some of them (buisy or just not that much talkers) gave commentaries/answeres via non- and public text-chatting in various forms. The point is. Everybody in the voice-chat had a clear view over the situation. Others (the pros lol) was thinking just shit about that, thinking like: what arrogant bastards, they are so bad to other ones. Ha? lol Years later the sdame people told me that and I had so say: we was just a bunch of happy people, like a family, spending a lot of time with doing creative stuff, just gaming or talking someones ears bloody, never was unpolite to third parties or something like that. It was even totally the other way around! If 'you' didn't got that, it's your problem, but now you see, we are polite persons, after spending more than one minute in stupid internet forums, faceshit or whatever. Usually I even don't use bad language the most of the time. ;)
On the other hand, too much socializing also can be rly bad for the health, when the human stupididy comes along. I had to quit that and it was good! Nothing is forever, but the demo scene oc.
Now I wrote down another pov-thing and mostly noone understands anyway the way I ment that. I have a nice voice and can say things in ten minutes, others needs 10 years in facesh...book or in irc-chats with 200 non-active spectators. I just don't like that much. point Also I need people I can trust around myself and people that I have the feeling with they trust in me. bla Ronny you are a living artefact. Hope you got that right. I mean, your work speaks fo itself.
One time a polish (nazi-?^^)guy recognized, that I'm a german. He told me usualy he does not like germans, but for me it's ok. A new hippie was born. lol Got it? Don't think too much when uninvolved. We are no computers. We are life-forms! Ok I need to say, me. (: Every typo=10 bugs/glöps to my account. ^^
added on the 2018-04-05 15:18:17 by aqu aqu
aha ok
added on the 2018-04-05 15:56:38 by xeNusion xeNusion
On a related note there's a whole chapter to be discussed about trashtalk and the joys and dangers of it :)
added on the 2018-04-05 16:17:28 by Gargaj Gargaj
Ronny <3

BB Image
added on the 2018-04-05 16:22:58 by keops keops
Basically what Ronny said.

Even worse/weirder for me at Revision tho because of that chasm between my role there and "how I really feel". Most people would take me as an extrovert with all the annoucing and pouet pissery and such but in reality I'm more of what people call an "outgoing introvert" - comfortable in most social situations but in the end definitely self centered. Plus, at Revision my mind is in constant overload mode because there's like 10 compos to show, other events to handle, cats to herd, and last but not least I haven't had more than 5 hours of sleep for the last three to five nights already.

So the whole "best sexy German command voice" thing isn't really being extrovert. It's not an act either - everyone of us is all the facets we show to ourselves as well as other people, and the whole notion of "who I really am" mostly is bullshit that one really should stop telling to oneself - but it's a certain mode I can switch myself into, and happily out of again a few seconds later. And in contrast to the hosts on stage I can hide behind that microphone at the FoH [Front Of House // Beamteam // that-thing-you-all-think-is-the-infodesk], and what a perfect hiding place it is.

So making an extrovert impression to people sometimes gets extra awkward when said people approach you and not only have the wrong impression but your mind is already all over the place. And when I leave my post I want to get at least some impresisons from the party so I basically walk around and never stay longer than a few minutes in the same place. Call it "Party ADHD" or something. What happened tho this year was that at some point I tried to excuse myself out of conversations because I felt my brain just wasn't able to handle more information (at least according to the squirrel that ran it), and the other person instantly went "oh, sorry to have annoyed/offended you". To those people, and to those I missed talking to, I just want to say: You did not. You're brilliant. It's just me. Let's have a beer or schnapps at the next party when I'm not in a mindset where the simple act of sitting down feels wrong.
added on the 2018-04-05 16:31:05 by kb_ kb_
Ronny, we met at Demobit 2018 and I had the impression that you are a nice, easy-going person. Anything but arrogant.

I am also an introvert, but since I started studying at university, I have actively made a tremendous effort to approach people and thus learned to start and keep a conversation going. Sometimes personality tests on the Internet even classify me as extraverted.
added on the 2018-04-05 18:30:18 by Adok Adok
i think we are missing the main point though. we have been describing outspoken people vs reclusive behaviour but the key question is: what depletes you and what recharges you.

a true introvert may function well socially, even initiate conversations but inside they would feel drained out and torn, which can be mended only by being home, alone. true extroverts feel like they are going insane without leaving their flat and be surrounded by people, even if they don't speak too much or don't initiate.

I pretty much flip-flop between the two. some weekends i stay home from Fri 7PM to Mon 8AM, some weekends i barely see my room. Whichever feels right at that moment.

"it's tuesday again. i feel like seeing my friends."
added on the 2018-04-05 18:54:18 by nagz nagz
I think that as an introvert you can learn to overcome social anxiety by getting to know what other people are like, what prejudices and stereotypes they have, what their goals in life are, what peculiarities their personalities have, etc. The more you know about what other people are like, the easier you will have a time to handle them.
added on the 2018-04-05 19:07:24 by Adok Adok
I think that as an introvert you can learn to overcome social anxiety by getting to know what other people are like, what prejudices and stereotypes they have, what their goals in life are, what peculiarities their personalities have, etc. The more you know about what other people are like, the easier you will have a time to handle them.
Sorry, Adok, those are instructions for psychopaths, not for introverts.
added on the 2018-04-05 21:02:25 by Bombe Bombe
Sometimes being perceived as an arrogant prick doesnt even has anything to do with something you really did.
It can be convenient to hate on talented people and decide they most certainly are horrible people. Admiration is easy to twist into deception, like every strong feeling. Because if you care and have the impression that it's all onesided, the terrain is levelled for a good drama show.
But a lot of times, it's simply wrong and dont stand a few chats in person :)
Of course ppl have flaws, but it's rare to meet a true monsters with no lovable side.
Also only fools dont have to deal with various degrees of insecurities, impostor syndrome, or never felt that they should better have STFU and want to run and hide. (Or well, i really hope i'm not wrong on that).
Oh and btw... rp, arrogant... I'd wtf so bad if i'd heard that.
added on the 2018-04-05 21:46:51 by alkama alkama
me too thanks
added on the 2018-04-05 21:56:14 by Tjoppen Tjoppen
I still go to demoparties for the demos and not for the people.

You all are nice, but I like your releases more.

added on the 2018-04-05 22:52:56 by urs urs
haha, keops, that perfectly illustrates the moment when fiver recently came to visit. Hadn't seen him for some months, and there's nothing wrong with a honest "man-hug" :D

@ronny: I was a bit surprised that you created this thread but I think it's a good thing. I never took you as arrogant! (we know each other in person) are you still up for the music tutorials ? would love to see you live in action and share your knowledge !
..but I know all too well what you are saying. Being introverted and shy can easily be mistaken as arrogance.

@nagz: well said. I feel guilty of not flip-flopping enough (too much cave-dwelling) :/

I guess being introverted comes with the terrority somehow.
The amount of knowledge one has to gather to keep up with the technological advancements sure ties you to your chair.
My friends already made fun of me for that in the last millenium.

@gargaj: watched your video. I've come to the conclusion that a certain, fortunately minor, part of the world population has a screw loose and trys to ruins it for the rest of us.
For example, there are so many awesome videos / products that were downvoted by people who can only be described as haters.
As a content author, you really need a thick skin and even that only helps so much.
It's not a surprise that many of these people completely disconnect from the internet / direct interaction.

@alkama: oh man, there've been so many times when I just wanted to run and hide and scolded myself for not STFU. more often than not, I re-read my ramblings the next day and realized that they actually were not that _that_ bad after all. only human!
added on the 2018-04-06 01:47:55 by bsp bsp
Also, there are way more 4k / 64k releases than 4k or 64k sceners.
added on the 2018-04-06 01:52:19 by T$ T$
There is also a thing called 'anxienty disorder', which can mean that a person who is known to be an extrovert, suddenly shuts down and becomes an introvert. It obviously can also mean that a person would like to be more extrovert, but simply cannot. In any case, it means that the person is experiencing much more anxiety than they should be supposed to.

A situation can arise when people are wanting to approach that person, and that person wants to crawl under the earth at that exact time. With heart thumping and ears ringing. It may be that the person is waiting for the medication to kick in, or in a much worse case scenario, that the person doesn't have the means to treat their anxiety.

Summa summarum, it's good to acknowledge that we're not all carved from the same wood, and at the same time appreciate the fact that we're not carved from the same wood. This is what makes us unique individuals.

It's only through better understanding of each other that be learn how to... understand each other.
added on the 2018-04-06 02:38:18 by T-101 T-101
I'm pretty much noone on the demoscene. I met KB last year at Revision and I randomly asked him about the youtube video that had come out a bit earlier, showing him playing piano at Function iirc. He was happy (or at least not unhappy to talk about it) and we had a quick chat.

I approached Ronny at Demobit to ask for his thoughts about this year Evoke streaming music compo. While he had seemed earlier on as someone who was only happy to talk to people he knew, we actually also had a quick but nice chat.

Basically, some people like to talk to people they know, sometimes they like to talk to people who made something they like (I can't forget Noby and Fizzer hugging a newcomer who only said "Hi, I made that 64k intro...") - it's pretty hard to find out if that's them being arrogant or just not wanting to waste time etc. If you approach someone, make sure you know what to talk about.

Huh, this year I even talked to one of the most appreciated scener ever! Yes, he had had a LOOOOOT of fun that night and due to the fact I was on my infodesk duty I'm not in the position to reveal who he was, but hey, he even talked to me first.

So, the point is - people are generally approachable but sometimes you might need to contribute to the chat with something. Or do something and you'll be surprised when they come to talk to you first.
added on the 2018-04-06 03:22:35 by LiSU^TRS LiSU^TRS
extro, intro, whattro? I was extro from 14 to 25... 100% social glue - that was important and I recommend that before you are 30 and fixed into 'human stupidity'! lol (dämliches Schubladengedenke alter Knacker mit unerfüllten Träumen wegen verkackter Jugend... un' weg) what the topic says... peace! (:
added on the 2018-04-06 05:26:17 by aqu aqu
Nice thread.

It gets me in the latest demoparties (that I am too reluctant to talk to someone unless someone talks to me) unless I get too drunk which I don't do anymore. This year it was better for me because I was sitting with the CPCists and I had a lot of social interactions.

Also, I wouldn't think badly of someone if they are social awkward, I understand since I can be sometimes too.
added on the 2018-04-06 08:29:27 by Optimus Optimus
I think that as an introvert you can learn to overcome social anxiety by getting to know what other people are like, what prejudices and stereotypes they have, what their goals in life are, what peculiarities their personalities have, etc. The more you know about what other people are like, the easier you will have a time to handle them.
Sorry, Adok, those are instructions for psychopaths, not for introverts.

Oh come on Bombe, that's a needless sneer. I know Adok-bashing is a popular pastime here (and at times, I'm sad to say, for good reason), but this is getting a bit ridiculous.

People with extreme social anxiety can only overcome that by practicing. And practice begins by very carefully and mindfully doing the things that come natural to other people (e.g. showing interest). Then, and only then, some of that can slowly change into habit and then it'll be a bit easier.

Adok describes a good starting point. His "instructions" are not fundamentally different from the millions of books and blog posts about how to get better at networking. And for a socially anxious person, nearly every interaction is as scary as networking is to most people.

I haven't talked to Adok for more than 10 years but at the time it was obvious to me that it was hard to him and he was practicing. That's super cool, keep it up Adok!
added on the 2018-04-06 09:37:41 by skrebbel skrebbel
Basically, some people like to talk to people they know...

Let's put some perspective to that:

I consider talking to people I know "safe". We already established a connection, we know what to talk about, maybe we know about our quirks. I'm within my comfort zone here.

Depending on my state of mind I enjoy talking to strangers as well. I need to be open for new information, be able to approach my opposite with interest, ask questions, maybe learn something.

Which can be tough eg. while tinkering creative issues for a to-be-finished production. Having just had a meaningful conversation. Having just arrived at an event. Waking up in the morning after a sleep-deprived night.

You know, at best I want to be focussed in the moment when somebody new approaches me. Which, at a demoparty is rather unlikely to happen. It doesn't hinder me to start talking to anyone. However, the depth of the conversation can be limited simply by my bandwidth.

It took me ages to figure out that brains have such a thing. I went through the world expecting myself to function the same under any circumstance. Which often caused frustration. At a certain point our subconsciousness develops strategies to avoid that. Eventually adding to the overall frustration.

I managed to break the circle by submitting to my mediocrity. And the ones of others as well. Game-changer.
added on the 2018-04-06 09:50:42 by rp^frstl rp^frstl
I do like this prime directive:

"Everybody, at any given moment, is the best version of him- or herself he or she can possible be."
added on the 2018-04-06 09:55:32 by rp^frstl rp^frstl


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