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Demoscene social issues

category: general [glöplog]
I've been following this thread back and forth but fail to see an issue other than what dixan said.. other than that what i've read isn't worse than any other night-out.. i really need to visit a demoparty soon to see what the fuzz is about :)

You should! They are big fun <3
added on the 2015-04-19 22:59:18 by numtek numtek
maali: i didn't know donkey poop was available with kewlers logos?!
added on the 2015-04-19 23:31:48 by havoc havoc
I also noticed a real change in the past years, parties have 'grown' to be calmer, quieter and nights seem to end earlier. In addition we now also have people playing Counter-Strike (or whatever is hip these days..) on a three screen setup for the whole weekend. So I guess everything changed a bit, we grew older, other people joined, which is fine - both. But sometimes I really miss the feeling of my first years from around ten years ago. Nevertheless parties never disappoint, I still love to come at least every easter and be overwhelmed by the diversity of people that come together in harmony. That is how I experience it.

Yet, I want to use this discussion and maybe draw the attention on something I find of an issue and I don't think has been discussed here, but fits rather well on the social issues. Here, we are talking - drastically speaking - about people puking on each other, fighting eachother, getting really drunk and falling over, watching porn etc. And still there are children present in the hall. Even toddlers, I would guess around 3?, are watching the Demo Compo in one of the first rows. Remember the epilepsy warning in the fairlight demo? I know that it is every parents decision where to take their kids to and where to bring them. But I feel that this is not the healthiest environment for (little) children and setting up a potty next to the rows inside the main hall feels a little awkward.

Don't get me wrong, I was really happy to see the first kids appearing at parties several years ago and I was totally happy for the parents and I guess some of the kids know more sceners than I do, so they probably feel "at home" in some way. But I still think that this is no place for people under 16 (or some other arbitrary level of matureness) and I feel it as my responsibility to at least bring it up and feel that some kind of admission-rule should be considered by the organizers.
added on the 2015-04-20 00:55:08 by dossi dossi
My nephew asked me, when he was ten, if it was ok for him to take over organizing of Kindergarden when I was too old. I said yes.
added on the 2015-04-20 01:02:07 by arcane arcane
until some gays rain on your parade because they feel left out and discriminated...

you forgot the lesbians. shame on you!

Wait... lesbians aren't gay now?
added on the 2015-04-20 01:07:57 by ringofyre ringofyre
Ok, ultimately here's my take on the CoC issue: If a CoC had been posted in the vain of one of the US conferences, it's highly unlikely I would ever have read it before attending. It's a document that gives organisers a licence to reprimand someone (or kick them out) for violations of the code.

Organisers already have that right. They have used it before, they will use it if they know something is going down that is "not on".

I've been to well over 30 demoparties by my count, and at two of them I've pulled people aside to have quiet words with them about what I considered unacceptable behaviour. One of those people had been drinking and was acting out of character, the other hadn't and I had had my concerns before.

Both of them apologised. Both of them became friends of mine for the duration of the party. I still see them at parties.

The key thing here is that if you see someone acting inappropriately that you feel is "out of order" is to call them out on it. Either personally, or by getting an organiser. If you say nothing, you're contributing to the problem.

What I haven't done, and what I will never do, is write something down that says what would happen to someone if they didn't act the "proper way". If I had read such a document it would have made me feel insulted, and improperly targeted. I'm sure we all remember being at school and being told that "because someone did X, we all have to sit and listen to this lecture on why we are part of a society and this will not be tolerated" -- something that as someone who was rarely in trouble made me feel incredibly angry. Not at the person who caused it, but at the administration that was making me listen to that shit when 95% of us had no idea why we were being punished for someone else's misdeed. It heavily shaped my attitude toward authority.

If you see something, say something. That's the only CoC I would ever support.
added on the 2015-04-20 02:49:34 by dotwaffle dotwaffle
So how's about all those people complaining doing their own event with their own rules and CoC. So do a demoparty about it!
Also fuckings to all those unprofessional drinkers who puke. What a waste!
So how's about all those people complaining doing their own event with their own rules and CoC. So do a demoparty about it!
Also fuckings to all those unprofessional drinkers who puke. What a waste!

Ack. Vomiting or blackouts? You did it wrong!

Also i like to point out that once there is a CoC, it is going to become sprawling list of contradictionary nonsene and weaken the discretionary power of the party's organizers. At some point, somebody will demand this CoC to be actually enforced. It'll then probably look like this:


or this:


So lets don't go that road, otherwise the only thing that'll help might be this:

added on the 2015-04-20 09:49:00 by degauss degauss
Also fuckings to all those unprofessional drinkers who puke. What a waste!

Yes it takes some practise when younger but it surely pays off later!
added on the 2015-04-20 11:00:28 by Serpent Serpent
Also, what was that shit about not being allowed to boo? When i am allowed to applause when i agree to release, i'm also allowed to express the opposite. I just can't force others to join in or accept what i think. People are free to tell me that they find it inappropriate when i watch porn at a party, fine so far, i most likely will tell them to fuck off or turn the sound even louder, to underline my opposite opinion. It is okay to express opposite points of view, the danger lies within the discussion, as it can also easily turn into an attempt of convincing and the urge of changing others. That is the point where things start to bother me.
Also, what was that shit about not being allowed to boo?

Oh come on, what's with the persecution complex? Even if that would be considered (which I don't think it is, far as I read back on the thread), how would it be implemented? Hovering sound analysis drones? It's unreasonable to either suggest it being implemented or to suggest that it's gonna be implemented and it's gonna be the end of the world.
It is okay to express opposite points of view, the danger lies within the discussion, as it can also easily turn into an attempt of convincing and the urge of changing others.

Honest question, because this baffles me: What's wrong with that? How can discussion be dangerous? Aren't people allowed to change their opinion based on incoming data? If you're a stalwart of opinion, I can't convince you anyway, but maybe you can convince me that your porn watching is harmless and the situation would be settled amicably. But either way, what's wrong with someone admitting that they see something differently after a 5 minute conversation?
So do a demoparty about it!

How do you know we're not? E.g. I'm still involved with events and I've been discussing if there's something to take away from the discussion.

I stand by what I said a few pages earlier: we don't need a huge policy change, just maybe write down a few things that were so far unwritten / implied / traditional / etc. because some people may not be aware of it.
added on the 2015-04-20 12:59:10 by Gargaj Gargaj
some people are interested in social behaviour,
other people are uninterested af in social behaviour,
the ones that don't care about social behaviour are also there.
added on the 2015-04-20 13:05:22 by gentleman gentleman
how many new users to pouet today?
added on the 2015-04-20 13:09:03 by gentleman gentleman
bitbreaker: I assume you're referring to the ATI incident. According to one account, people were also shouting "show us your tits!". Would you defend that as free expression too?
added on the 2015-04-20 13:28:55 by gasman gasman
No, i was referring to a post of scamp
havoc: no, but the donkeys themselves were paintable! best i could do.
BB Image
added on the 2015-04-20 15:05:15 by djh0ffman djh0ffman
Gasman, there's no way to defend stupidity. I'm embarrassed. However, there's little chance to prevent isolated incidents like that. And i'm faithful someone took her aside and put things into perspective.
added on the 2015-04-20 15:41:26 by rp rp
I wonder if someone took the heckling people aside and put some things into perspective for them. Somehow, I doubt it.
added on the 2015-04-20 15:48:15 by Preacher Preacher
and as if it could have been prevented with a 'please dont heckle ATi women' in advance, hell, it would probably been worse. also, the nvidia women at Assembly were cuter! ;)
that ati incident was horrendous. really embarrassing.
i saw her a few years later tho and she was alright about it.
added on the 2015-04-20 16:30:08 by smash smash
"ATi incident" ... I wrote in my first observation that Breakpoints 2003 & 2004 had to be out of competition because of "downright Ghetto scening".
Remember: those parties happened on a hill cornering No and Where, no water pipes, no standard toilets, grim weather (both years as I recall). People went over the edge because there simply was nobody from the "Real World" around to be offended.

The ATi thing was 2004 - with the helicopter ride 'n shit.
Look at the slengpung pics (and comments) FFS, you can't extrapolate from those party editions a generalisation about behavior toward 1) sponsers 2) women giving tech speeches at demoparties.

And as nic0 pointed out

- sober guys: rotten up 10% !
- drunkards: sober up 10% !
added on the 2015-04-20 16:50:57 by d0DgE d0DgE
Perhaps to a nerd it seems that all issues, including social ones, can and should be prevented by creating Systems and Codes and Rules.
added on the 2015-04-20 16:54:59 by yzi yzi
@yzi, I actually think that the problem is different here. It seems to be more of a culture clash between nerds and geeks.
added on the 2015-04-20 17:07:03 by introspec introspec


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