pouët.net

havoc: well i know this: free time is limited and partyorgas eventually do get depressed from always wasting their time securing optimum conditions for "a bunch of random local kids that did their first demo on blitzbasic." i believe you're not one of the easy depressable orga types but from my experience plenty of other are. and like stefan pointed out, parties where prods get made are often more important than the ones where the prod got released.

and lets get this straight: im not claiming capitalism is dooming the scene!!!11 i just wonder how badly this whole "make your demo for cash" wave will impact in the coming years.
and i repeat, since some people seem to still be taking it personaly by some reason or another: we'll only truly notice it's affects in the coming years. this is all pure speculation from my behalf, which i'll be very glad to see rebuted with field applications.

but i cant possibly agree with those blind optimists that demoparty counts are as healthy as ever. hell, im still laughing at "poland has two". like: yeh, they're really back to kick norway's ass now!!! lol don't get me wrong, i'd love to visit the party but whats the odd of a really majorly ass kicking prod getting released in a small party nowdays?

keops: did i say you were killing the french scene? couz i dont remember claiming so.

I did not write "klling the french scene", I wrote this :

basically the "make your demo for cash" could imply:

- we give you the cash to make a demo, do whatever you like
- you make the demo, compete, then get the cash *if* you can

there is a distinction between the two. I personally wouldn't mind either (and neither would I think it is wrong to do demos for cash) but in the first case it might feel like doing a job. The second case is more challenging, you get the "reward" at the end and you do get that "competition" feeling.

But ofcourse there are alot more rewards apart from the material. To get your prod on the big screen, on pouet etc.. money and graphics cards - they come and go. But fame - man, fame is above all.

Perhaps the offer of cash will get some of those young kids motivated to produce something, then when they realise how much fun it is, they'll visit their local small demo party with their second demo.

Or maybe we'll all just get old and decrepit, get demotivated, and give up like keops is making us do.

i guess if the demos for cash deals were sponsoring small parties instead of organizing these side events for the leet groups i would probably not look at it so sideways..

psonice: thats quite true. but i fear it'll bring more one hit wonder teams of startup gamedev peeps rather then actual sceners who mingle with the rest of the community. but i could be completly wrong about that. plenty of new and somewhat still active demogroups came out of imaginecup for example. :)

well, plenty: two.
but still.. new groups making demos always good even if they fade away faster then they got assembled or not.

*that* is why one should organise a demoparty, because it will have visitors. the rest follows naturally (or darwinistically, if you like). if party organisers decide to quit because of a lacking number of major releases, it's too bad... but also unavoidable, we all know the scene is dying(tm). nvision is nothing but the gardener who cuts the sick branch before the healthy tree dies... imho.

lol :D

This image just made my day. :D

the new model army =)

ps: you're being a fucking moron right now. There I said it - now you probably got what you want.

keops, it's time to hit the panic room!


welcome to the real world, ps! what you describe in our demoworld is that world phenomenon called... globalization :p it has been running for centuries and gets faster and faster, fight it as much as you can but it's hopeless in the long run : globalization is a natural process of advanced human evolution. (i'm serious!)

"and lets get this straight: im not claiming capitalism is dooming the scene!!!11 i just wonder how badly this whole "make your demo for cash" wave will impact in the coming years."

Now that's true weaseling

Look at it this way: while there has always been people in the demoscene who are also doing demo-like things for money, recently there has been more demand for it. There was a peak in such things in the mid-90s, and now it's coming back. As far as I know, the demoscene has survived commercial Gravis, AfriCola and PS3 demos. :)

Tons of 'make demos for cash' offers would surely just make the scene thrive. Look at what it did for nvscene. I can't see that there's anything to complain about there. And the offer for iphone demos - if it's successful, we'll go from a platform with zero demos to one with 10 decent releases in no time. You have to be REALLY pessimistic to see that as a bad thing.

Sure, we could end up with a load of 'sponsored' demos with some branding, and I can see why people don't like the idea. But if that did happen, I think it'd be excellent outreach (consider how many people are going to watch these iphone demos who probably never heard of the scene!) And while it may mean less 'non-commercial' demos get made, surely the amount of new people brought into the scene to do stuff like that will make up for it over the longer term, as they're sure to make some 'for fun' releases too.

also on a microscale, this is just a reflect that the demoscene and sceners are growing up, for the best and the worst.

bartman: you deffo gotta see more british comedy for missing the point :)

for now i'll adapt the consumer attitude: if it brings nice demos, it's all good. what happens when sponsors or gloryhunters leave is another issue. i hope to see something for that iphone soon.

puryx: cheers for missing the point and offering free insults.

zest: erm.. no.

knos: that wasnt my aim

gloom: im not afraid of it killing the scene, just ranting on how it can very possibly affect it. others seem to violently disagree with my vision, i guess thats a good omen for good things to come.

i can only repeat it a third time, since people still seem to be taking my speculations and premonitions quite personally, i guess they feel like i'm accusing them for having participated in nvscene or something stupid like that. capitalism wont kill the scene. and you doing prods for virtual compos isnt killing the scene. im just wondering out loud where this all commercial side is leading us. thats all. no need to get all touchy touchy mommy the moron is accusing me of not caring enough about it. o_O

ps:

I suppose what we have here (but people most likely won't admit to this) is a case of bad conscience. Perhaps people feel bad about supporting the big-money parties, when they know that they should be supporting the small ones instead.

So people start reading between the lines, which is a dangerous thing to do, because we are likely to read something you didn't put there - often it's more what we put there ourselves.

So, don't take it too personal - and don't throw such debates into the open again. The pointlessness of it all will kill you in the end. ;)

ps: You just said "No, you don't understand what I'm saying" to four different people. I think you should take that as a pretty strong indication that whatever you're trying to say isn't getting through and might need some reformatting. :)

ps: what point am I missing?

I agreed with you several posts ago, to which you replied that the Scene Event died because of the sceners not supporting it, which is NOT true. The organizers of that very party gave it up, since they became too old/uninterested, and thus couldn't get enough staff among the old group of usual staff. I did offer my help here, yes, but SE simply just didn't make it further.

After that you kindly told me that TRSAC didn't benefit the scene with quality releases - I'm really sorry, but which point am I missing here?