What's the story behind the Plastic PS3 demo?
category: offtopic [glöplog]
just throwing in a demo in the gamers world does not really work as outreach, magic.. just read all the clueless comments on various reviews on LiS. but let's be optimistic and hope some might feel interested and bother to type 'demoscene' in google or wikipedia to actually get a clue...
speaking of sarcasm, yes, a pc is EXACTLY what Sony would love to happen!
speaking of sarcasm, yes, a pc is EXACTLY what Sony would love to happen!
then at least a 360 port :P
Maali: well, there are two possibilities: 1. most gamers can't read properly and thus they didn't read the text explaining what demoscene is which is in LiS's main menu, if I remember correctly, 2. those clueless comments come from trolls who didn't bother to try LiS themselves. Any of those would be useless for scene so I'd bet on those who are able to use google or wiki and can read anything longer than 5 kB without being distracted.
I find the comment that "linger in shadows" is great outreach slightly insulting. Not as such (it is not) but when it is suggested earlier in this thread that:
1- it is not a demo
2- but it's good outreach for it
i.e. it's just a _substitute_ for the real thing.
It's not. I feel plastic's demo* is just as valid as any other demo or should I say even more, since it's a good one.
It appears to me that despite what they claim, a lot of sceners don't really like demos at all..
*I will insist on calling it one, since there has been no comprehensive argument against it being one, just random disjointed statements such as: it's distributed for a fee (I don't feel this makes any difference on what's being exchanged here) it's interactive (there have been many interactive demos, on the atari or c64 etc..) it's paid for by a sponsor (os/2 demo, gus sponsorships) .
If people have done commercial work that they so far have "hidden", rather than attacking plastic, they should really starting wondering why they have compromised themselves so much that they wouldn't naturally upload those works on a scene site.
Plastic managed to make a honest demo that they feel proud enough to put their names on it. Kudos to them.
I'm also pretty sad to read silly generalizations about "gamers" as if they were a particularly low kind of breed. It's even scarier when one realize that gamers have outlets (and discussions) that are actually a great deal more mature in their critique and analysis than sceners have about demos.
This is the type of things which prompts me to say above that sceners must not really like demos that much, enriched by the experience of seeing sceners in party shrug off compos to do something else.
1- it is not a demo
2- but it's good outreach for it
i.e. it's just a _substitute_ for the real thing.
It's not. I feel plastic's demo* is just as valid as any other demo or should I say even more, since it's a good one.
It appears to me that despite what they claim, a lot of sceners don't really like demos at all..
*I will insist on calling it one, since there has been no comprehensive argument against it being one, just random disjointed statements such as: it's distributed for a fee (I don't feel this makes any difference on what's being exchanged here) it's interactive (there have been many interactive demos, on the atari or c64 etc..) it's paid for by a sponsor (os/2 demo, gus sponsorships) .
If people have done commercial work that they so far have "hidden", rather than attacking plastic, they should really starting wondering why they have compromised themselves so much that they wouldn't naturally upload those works on a scene site.
Plastic managed to make a honest demo that they feel proud enough to put their names on it. Kudos to them.
I'm also pretty sad to read silly generalizations about "gamers" as if they were a particularly low kind of breed. It's even scarier when one realize that gamers have outlets (and discussions) that are actually a great deal more mature in their critique and analysis than sceners have about demos.
This is the type of things which prompts me to say above that sceners must not really like demos that much, enriched by the experience of seeing sceners in party shrug off compos to do something else.
Quote:
Forget the 'unwritten' rulez.. LIS should be treasured like every other demo and fits pouet perfectly. From an 'outreach' point of view LiS
probably will make the scene known to people who never heart of it.
I was expecting that, but now after reading a few reviews I see that most people just don't care about it's origins and see it as another product. I was expecting to read about Plastic's previous work (195/95, final audition...) in at least 1 review. At least that! Maybe will see it when the 2 other demos are released. People who bought LiS will probably also buy it, and if depending on the style it can touch others. But in most reviews that mention the word "demoscene" they can't even read the wikipedia article properly.
Just droping a few more cents in the discussion.
Quote:
read the text explaining what demoscene is which is in LiS's main menu
Can I get a transcript of that or screenshots?
Thanks for ps for the text
-----
What is Linger in Shadows?
Linger in Shadows is an experiment into the realm of Interactive Digital Art. It is not meant to be a game. Sometimes this gets confused because it is on the PLAYSTATION®3 and it goes well outside the norm of games.
It is meant to be an experience that you explore. Look beyond the frame of what you see. If you search for new things and experiment with the motion sensor controls, you might be surprised in what you find.
We hope this is a unique journey that you’ll enjoy.
Demoscene
Linger in Shadows was created by Plastic, from the demoscene. Below is an explanation of the history and nature of the demoscene. Why is this important? Many people don’t know what the demoscene is and we want to give you a better understanding of it. The demoscene has both direct and indirect effects on game development creating new techniques in programming, animation, art, sound, and music.
Rusty Buchert
“Demoscene" is the term coined for the underground digital art culture that evolved in the late eighties. In this regard a demo is nothing more than an audiovisual program created to demonstrate the capacity of the machine through the devotion and originality of the demosceners who created it. These demos share a parallel with graphics card technology demos, game engine demos, benchmarking and screensavers but inhabit their own community with a noncommercial aim of simply challenging and/or entertaining the viewer. In this computer culture sandbox where individuals evolve their skills in directing, programming, designing graphics and composing soundtracks, demogroups such as Plastic were formed to join talents from the different areas and bring you demos such as Linger In Shadows. You can usually find these demos available for download on the internet under servers such as the one hosted by scene.org, a nonprofit organization run by a dozen demoscene volunteers committed to support and promote the demoscene culture. scene.org also hosts pouet.net, the demoscene's largest database. It was developed in the year 2000 as a webpage where friends could comment on their favorite classic demos. It grew to a community where people can share opinions about the latest releases in the demoscene. It bridges various platforms from the Atari, Amiga, Commodore 64, Amstrad CPC, Sinclair ZX Spectrum, mobilephones and handhelds to all sorts of computer consoles.“
Filipe 'ps' Cruz
scene.org staff
-----
What is Linger in Shadows?
Linger in Shadows is an experiment into the realm of Interactive Digital Art. It is not meant to be a game. Sometimes this gets confused because it is on the PLAYSTATION®3 and it goes well outside the norm of games.
It is meant to be an experience that you explore. Look beyond the frame of what you see. If you search for new things and experiment with the motion sensor controls, you might be surprised in what you find.
We hope this is a unique journey that you’ll enjoy.
Demoscene
Linger in Shadows was created by Plastic, from the demoscene. Below is an explanation of the history and nature of the demoscene. Why is this important? Many people don’t know what the demoscene is and we want to give you a better understanding of it. The demoscene has both direct and indirect effects on game development creating new techniques in programming, animation, art, sound, and music.
Rusty Buchert
“Demoscene" is the term coined for the underground digital art culture that evolved in the late eighties. In this regard a demo is nothing more than an audiovisual program created to demonstrate the capacity of the machine through the devotion and originality of the demosceners who created it. These demos share a parallel with graphics card technology demos, game engine demos, benchmarking and screensavers but inhabit their own community with a noncommercial aim of simply challenging and/or entertaining the viewer. In this computer culture sandbox where individuals evolve their skills in directing, programming, designing graphics and composing soundtracks, demogroups such as Plastic were formed to join talents from the different areas and bring you demos such as Linger In Shadows. You can usually find these demos available for download on the internet under servers such as the one hosted by scene.org, a nonprofit organization run by a dozen demoscene volunteers committed to support and promote the demoscene culture. scene.org also hosts pouet.net, the demoscene's largest database. It was developed in the year 2000 as a webpage where friends could comment on their favorite classic demos. It grew to a community where people can share opinions about the latest releases in the demoscene. It bridges various platforms from the Atari, Amiga, Commodore 64, Amstrad CPC, Sinclair ZX Spectrum, mobilephones and handhelds to all sorts of computer consoles.“
Filipe 'ps' Cruz
scene.org staff
Thank you. Pouët's bbs, and scene.org's forum are quiet as usual, so I guess that less than 1% of the buyers are not reading that :D
I don't quite get why someone discovering demos what the demoscene is would immediately lust for posting on pouet.net
"You can usually find these demos available for download on the internet under servers such as the one hosted by scene.org"
They will probably go look for the binary of LiS on scene.org but then fail to find it ;)
Just joking, stay calm please :)
They will probably go look for the binary of LiS on scene.org but then fail to find it ;)
Just joking, stay calm please :)
![[self-ban]](https://content.pouet.net/avatars/intro.gif)
i second ps!
dont place everything in a box..
dont place everything in a box..
knos: In over than 9000 users I would expect some to react.
Tiago, it's pretty hard to quantify. However if I wasn't a scener I wouldn't post on pouet.net or scene.org even if I came to know about it.. It would have taken me many months of being involved, following stuff etc..
Anyway, as an example, the popular demo has been downloaded more than 600_000 times.
And as a result of those 600_000 downloads we see about 600 comments about it on pouet, and not much on scene.org's bbs.
Make it what you will, I simply think you're overestimating the poster / watcher ratio and underestimating the understanding of watchers. Beware of the "silent evidence".
Anyway, as an example, the popular demo has been downloaded more than 600_000 times.
And as a result of those 600_000 downloads we see about 600 comments about it on pouet, and not much on scene.org's bbs.
Make it what you will, I simply think you're overestimating the poster / watcher ratio and underestimating the understanding of watchers. Beware of the "silent evidence".
HI LURKING GAMERS!
i'm a gamer too.
i'm a gamer too.
Bonzaj: do sony give you any download statistics or anything to let you know how well it's doing?
One concern is that once Sony for some reason decides to remove this from the Playstation store, there will be absolutely no way for anyone to get it (at least until the PS3 security is broken - damnit, get to it!)
So in 2020 when we dig out our PS3 for some nostalgia, no Linger in Shadows! :(
So in 2020 when we dig out our PS3 for some nostalgia, no Linger in Shadows! :(
Well, I got it on my PS3 - and you can backup the PS3, soooo... ;)
(yeah that's right I spent 3 euros on a demo!!! - as I did spend xxxx euros on hardware for running demos previously ;) )
(yeah that's right I spent 3 euros on a demo!!! - as I did spend xxxx euros on hardware for running demos previously ;) )
ahh.. gamers from gamefaqs.com
"If you know what a demoscene is, buy it."
"Oh well bought it about 5mins after I posted this topic and I definately didnt like it. Even as a demoscene, it looks like a poorly made high school project." ... "I'm mad Sony threw some trophies on it so they could make money off us."
yes, linger in shadows definitely is a demoscene :)
"If you know what a demoscene is, buy it."
"Oh well bought it about 5mins after I posted this topic and I definately didnt like it. Even as a demoscene, it looks like a poorly made high school project." ... "I'm mad Sony threw some trophies on it so they could make money off us."
yes, linger in shadows definitely is a demoscene :)
Knos, i confess, i have downloaded The Popular Demo at least 999 times, and only posted 1 thumb-comment.
Perhaps someone else has downloaded it another 598401 times because he never knew where he put it on his large harddrive or so.
(i bet a number of people will make a confession now)
Perhaps someone else has downloaded it another 598401 times because he never knew where he put it on his large harddrive or so.
(i bet a number of people will make a confession now)
So for the first time in my life I paid to watch a demo. Had to shell out 40SEK (about 4 euro) since that was the lowest amount that PSN let me add to my online wallet. :/
Anyway, I must say that I am a bit confused by the 'interactive' stuff. It seems very tacked on.
If this had been released as a demo only and for free, it would have been made much more sense. A large percentage of the PSN user would probably have downloaded it and wathced it at least once, and got a nice impression of the demoscene.
As it is now, I'm betting most are put off by paying for something unknown, and those who do and expect some kind of interactive game will be very disappointed.
My guess is that somewhere in the process there has been some numbnut manager type who have reacted something like this:
"A 'demo' that you can only watch? Why? And for free? Nooo... That's not good business! Add some Interaction<tm> to it, and then we charge money, yeah, that's the way to go"
Anyway, I must say that I am a bit confused by the 'interactive' stuff. It seems very tacked on.
If this had been released as a demo only and for free, it would have been made much more sense. A large percentage of the PSN user would probably have downloaded it and wathced it at least once, and got a nice impression of the demoscene.
As it is now, I'm betting most are put off by paying for something unknown, and those who do and expect some kind of interactive game will be very disappointed.
My guess is that somewhere in the process there has been some numbnut manager type who have reacted something like this:
"A 'demo' that you can only watch? Why? And for free? Nooo... That's not good business! Add some Interaction<tm> to it, and then we charge money, yeah, that's the way to go"
Any official sales numbers?
tiago: there aren't enough reviews to validate such a gameranking score (metacritic doesn't even know LiS).
besides it's hard to judge it with gameplay criteria.
besides it's hard to judge it with gameplay criteria.
http://www.gamesradar.com/f/the-50-most-overlooked-games-of-this-generation/a-2009052111572735079
Quote:
Linger in Shadows
(PSN)
The problem with a game like Linger in Shadows is it’s nearly impossible to describe. To wit: it’s not really a game. It’s more like an interactive movie, rendered in full 3D, that is also a puzzle – when you hit a stopping point, you need to look around the environment, turning this thing or shaking that one, or just finding something, in order to unlock the next piece of the movie.
It’s not too tough to solve (though the first puzzles are the toughest, so don’t be discouraged) and the graphics have to be seen to be believed – it looks like an oil painting that just happens to move. And although it’s wicked short, it’s also an experience you owe it to yourself to have. Plus, the price is right.
Current availability? $3 download from the Playstation Network.
