Riots in Belgrade
category: general [glöplog]
best thing about kosovo is that it has high criminal rate and exports cheap heroin for losers
[quote]best thing about kosovo is that it has high criminal rate and exports cheap heroin for losers[quote]
Speaking from experience?
Speaking from experience?
How about riots in Budapest? Not a topic any more?
How about the precedence Kosovo made, in the aspect of, let's say, Transylvania?
How about the precedence Kosovo made, in the aspect of, let's say, Transylvania?
Welcome back tomcat. what's your current Φ?
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Some australian serbs are protesting in australia, drawing nazi swastikas on our flag, and letting of flares becase we recognised kosovo as a separate state. crazy.
I don't know enough about it but it comes across that some serbian people treat kosovo as their 'heartland'. I find that intruiging, because I don't really know why, because if that was true, there would surely be a serbian majority living there and thus the state would have had a majority of people wanting to stay with serbia - and this independece, inacted by people of albanian descent, probably would have never happened. I think its quite hypocritical, but there have been australian serbs here say that this is like jerusalem being taken away from the jewish state. I think that's a bit much to be honest..
baldrick, i believe the point is that some 100 years ago or so, there was about an equal amount of serbs and albanians there. also, nobody really moved. the albanians just all got 10 kids and the serbs got 1 or 2. woops.
that said, there's only one kind of people more stupid than nationalists, and it's nationalists who emigrated. how they they contribute to their country's pride and honour in any way? at all? biggest hypocrites ever.
tomcat, don't forget that all hungarians actually are austrians who forgot about that.
Fuck every european country except the nordic ones, the rest just consists of uncivilized monkeys.
I would love to see all those nordic fuckers loose 2/3rd of their territory, and then stfu in a civilized way.
We would have no problem giving away Åland..
eh, i'm assuming you think i'm nordic?
oswald, where were you whining when montenegro declared independence? when slovenia left yugoslavia?
and indeed plenty nordics would whine just as much as the serbians are whining now. or, at least i'm sure most danes would, if nordjylland would declare itself independent or something silly like that. they don't dare going there, think the people who live there are stupid but oh my if people would take it away from them. we've a long way to go.
we're all the same bunch of people. who cares about small differences in hair colour or language? the european cultures have so few differences compared to how much we all have in common (compare all of us to, say, east asian, arab or central african cultures and see how true this is). the only reason people hold on to their countries or nations so much is because they need to belong to a group.
put both kosovo and serbia into the EU, make the EU a federation, for 20 years and the problem has solved itself. do the same for northern cyprus. the only thing that's stopping all the crap, the hatred and the warfare to end is people like you, oswald. and the kosovar nationalists on the other side just the same. and all them other whiners for nothing.
oswald, where were you whining when montenegro declared independence? when slovenia left yugoslavia?
and indeed plenty nordics would whine just as much as the serbians are whining now. or, at least i'm sure most danes would, if nordjylland would declare itself independent or something silly like that. they don't dare going there, think the people who live there are stupid but oh my if people would take it away from them. we've a long way to go.
we're all the same bunch of people. who cares about small differences in hair colour or language? the european cultures have so few differences compared to how much we all have in common (compare all of us to, say, east asian, arab or central african cultures and see how true this is). the only reason people hold on to their countries or nations so much is because they need to belong to a group.
put both kosovo and serbia into the EU, make the EU a federation, for 20 years and the problem has solved itself. do the same for northern cyprus. the only thing that's stopping all the crap, the hatred and the warfare to end is people like you, oswald. and the kosovar nationalists on the other side just the same. and all them other whiners for nothing.
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there's only one kind of people more stupid than nationalists
... is it the people who bash nationalists as soon as the got the smallest opportunity ?
Excuse me, Skrebbel, but with all due respect, I think you talk is Euro-propaganda-induced nonsense. Nationalism is no disease, really, most of the time being patriotic or nationalistic simply means stating loud and clear that you love your OWN way of life, and that you will defend it against foreign agression. It's as simple as that. It's really no fascistic "I-kill-you-and-take-your-land" policy. It's more about "live, and let live". And the sense of collective pride.
And the fact that we live in a world where, FOR NOW, your Skrebbel way of life is in no danger, doesn't mean that it will NEVER be in danger anymore. Just try to keep that in mind. The world is not filled with teddy bears trying to kiss you, it's more filled with actual grizzlies who are not interested in you, FOR THE MOMENT. You would be very naive to think otherwise.
I think the contempt you have for nationalists is just a side-effect of the peace your homeland has experienced for the last sixty years.
So please, just be tolerant with people who think they are worthy, and actually have the will to endure, as a nation. Not every people has the will to merge and disappear, like most western European countries do with Europe. Try to understand that, and please be less full of contempt.
Apart from that, do you have any idea about the "scale" of the problem in Kosovo and Serbia ? Do you honestly think Serbs who "emigrated" a few hundred kilometers North (something like 250 km) did think of it as "emigrating" ? Just go and buy a map.
I'm really not defending anyone here, nor Serbs, neither Kosovars, but please, try to have relevant opinions before giving them away.
Preacher: LOL
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most of the time being patriotic or nationalistic simply means stating loud and clear that you love your OWN way of life, and that you will defend it against foreign agression
so a province declaring itself independent is foreign aggression now?
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And the fact that we live in a world where, FOR NOW, your Skrebbel way of life is in no danger, doesn't mean that it will NEVER be in danger anymore. Just try to keep that in mind. The world is not filled with teddy bears trying to kiss you, it's more filled with actual grizzlies who are not interested in you, FOR THE MOMENT. You would be very naive to think otherwise.
i believe you forgot why the EU was started at all. hint: it wasn't for being able to go on a holiday without having to queue at the border.
you're completely right that the peace we have in western europe now is something that we should cherish and protect (and expand). but it's simply not realistic to believe that any of them evil grizzlies is one of these european countries. we depend too much on one another to go into warfare. we're too much like each other to go into warfare. frankly, we have no reason to go into warfare.
the nationalism we that need to protect our peace is european nationalism. if we're going to get trouble with any outsides, having to protect our culture, our way of life, it's going to come from the outside. when i see mad Syrians burning down embassies because they cannot understand that in Europe we have press freedom, then i understand that some cultures in this world are so far apart that there's no unifying them in the short term. in Europe, we're not that far apart. no, not in the Balkans either. not like that.
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I think the contempt you have for nationalists is just a side-effect of the peace your homeland has experienced for the last sixty years.
So please, just be tolerant with people who think they are worthy, and actually have the will to endure, as a nation. Not every people has the will to merge and disappear, like most western European countries do with Europe. Try to understand that, and please be less full of contempt.
you have a point here. maybe you just need those sixty years of peace before you can start believing it might last. that said, jean monnet did not have sixty years of piece when he proposed to make what is now the EU. and you can say what you want, but he was right.
oh by the way i don't have any strong opinion on "who is right" with the whole kosovo thing. i don't know the details. but i do think that people who go rioting and randomly breaking crap because they think something is not right is just stupid, and i think that that is some idiotic sentiment gone all through the roof.
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the nationalism we that need to protect our peace is european nationalism.
I wonder : would "European nationalists" be stupid according to your moral scale ?
no.
like you said, it's all about protecting "our" way of life. i think the tiny differences we have in europe are not at all worth fighting over. it saddens me to see that people do it anyway. and i have a hard time understanding it.
It's my little idea that we really need to create a european nationalism in order to take things on a useful level.
Besides it's all about who you feel connected to/excluded by.
In any case nationalism is NOT patriotism. Nationalism is a last century ideology that posited the nation as some external concrete entity that certain "elected" people are allowed to communicate with.
This is why it is valid to compare it to the religious feeling. And why it is dangerous, seems it is easily manipulated by its believers.
Besides it's all about who you feel connected to/excluded by.
In any case nationalism is NOT patriotism. Nationalism is a last century ideology that posited the nation as some external concrete entity that certain "elected" people are allowed to communicate with.
This is why it is valid to compare it to the religious feeling. And why it is dangerous, seems it is easily manipulated by its believers.
s/seems/since
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nationalism is NOT patriotism
Wikipedia :
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Patriotism covers such attitudes as: pride in its achievements and culture, the desire to preserve its character and the basis of the culture, and identification with other members of the nation. Patriotism is closely associated with nationalism, and the terms are often used synonymously.
You can run, but you can't hide, knos.
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I want to say that these persons are just extremes and that they don't represent Serbs as a nation. Citizens of Serbia are mostly normal and honest and I am proud because I'm one of them.
What!? How dissapointing :(
TomSawyer, as if wikipedia was a valid reference.
Even more so when you actually misrepresent what wikipedia's articles say.
There wouldn't be two different articles if the concepts were actually the same.
There wouldn't be two different articles if the concepts were actually the same.
WIKIPEDIA IS NOT A VALID REFERENCE?
kaneel: no it isn't.
