Genuine productions
category: general [glöplog]
@Smaugur, I'm all for anarchy.
But what's a "throw up compo"? As in vomiting something onto the bigscreen?
Maybe we can ask our illustrators Spinning Thumb and Havoc to provide some illustrations. :-) Still you seem to use the term genuine like before without giving an example or explanation.
But what's a "throw up compo"? As in vomiting something onto the bigscreen?
Maybe we can ask our illustrators Spinning Thumb and Havoc to provide some illustrations. :-) Still you seem to use the term genuine like before without giving an example or explanation.
https://www.pouet.net/search.php?what=spykladd&type=prod
but i think the scene matured beyond that by now... (or at least isn't physically capable anymore)
but i think the scene matured beyond that by now... (or at least isn't physically capable anymore)
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Quote:Traditionally we never cared about art
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Quote:Quote:Traditionally we never cared about art
So what is the point of quoting it? Is it true?
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Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Traditionally we never cared about art
So what is the point of quoting it? Is it true?
Just make demos and let people enjoy your work ... a bad or boring "genuine" prod stays bad and boring ... in this case I prefer solid mainstream stuff over "art" ...
« Mainstream »
Asato: fair point, but I think we all know the drill. Mainstream stuff has by definition bigger budgets and wider reach than genuine art. On the other hand, "genuine" art is sometimes overly focused on self-expression as opposed to giving audience enough thrills. As usual, there is a sweet spot somewhere in-between.
@psenough
I think it is more complex than that. There are many examples in Film, a much more mature and socially established art form than demoscene, where many films considered masterpieces by both, critics and audiences, winners of contests and awards, use third party music in their soundtrack. The creators of those films had talented people and budget to make their own music, but it was an artistic decision of the director to include this or that music from a third party that was not made for the film.
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that what ripping without permission and proper crediting is culturally / socially considered "lame" and, in the demoscene, we are as a rule more demanding in this than in other art forms.
And a few more considerations:
* I think there is a difference when a prod is submitted to a compo and when it is not.
* I also think it is important the context and what AI or third party works were used for.
* To conclude, I think the demoscene drags a complex because of its origin in cracktros whose nature shared art, ripping and piracy in equal parts. The evolution from cracktro to demo meant to extirpate everything that was not art and hence that special suspicion. But perhaps, once the demoscene passes its adolescent stage and we overcome our complexes, we can be less susceptible, at least in the development of cracktros.
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ripping is culturally / socially considered "lame" for it's low effort.
I think it is more complex than that. There are many examples in Film, a much more mature and socially established art form than demoscene, where many films considered masterpieces by both, critics and audiences, winners of contests and awards, use third party music in their soundtrack. The creators of those films had talented people and budget to make their own music, but it was an artistic decision of the director to include this or that music from a third party that was not made for the film.
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that what ripping without permission and proper crediting is culturally / socially considered "lame" and, in the demoscene, we are as a rule more demanding in this than in other art forms.
And a few more considerations:
* I think there is a difference when a prod is submitted to a compo and when it is not.
* I also think it is important the context and what AI or third party works were used for.
* To conclude, I think the demoscene drags a complex because of its origin in cracktros whose nature shared art, ripping and piracy in equal parts. The evolution from cracktro to demo meant to extirpate everything that was not art and hence that special suspicion. But perhaps, once the demoscene passes its adolescent stage and we overcome our complexes, we can be less susceptible, at least in the development of cracktros.
agreed
i think there are 3 reasons why movie directors use known music in movies:
- to establish a cultural connection with the audience, having something that majority of people will instantly recognize and feel happy they recognized that reference
- bringing a clear style/feeling for it's pre-established musical culture, even if the viewers are not that familiar with it, it still brings certain cultural connotations (think trap music or hiphop brings an instant urban jungle feeling for example)
- they don't know what they want for a scene exactly so they look for references in what they know and end up using that already made track, sometimes because it's cheaper to license instead of giving the inglorious task to a musician/composer to redo something in that style.
i watched a youtube video about film composition in major pictures and how it typically ends up being derivative of other movies of similar genre for both being "safe" and recognizable. same pitfall that brings us recurring sequels with same fucking formulas over and over again. and i can understand why an industry focusing on profit falls for that while the consumers keep consuming it, and TBF some sequels that repeat formulas are "alright". but as a creative i would much rather see/listen to something less formulaic and demoscene does bring us that freedom (unless you're obsessed with winning the compo by repeating a compo winner formula i guess).
i think there are 3 reasons why movie directors use known music in movies:
- to establish a cultural connection with the audience, having something that majority of people will instantly recognize and feel happy they recognized that reference
- bringing a clear style/feeling for it's pre-established musical culture, even if the viewers are not that familiar with it, it still brings certain cultural connotations (think trap music or hiphop brings an instant urban jungle feeling for example)
- they don't know what they want for a scene exactly so they look for references in what they know and end up using that already made track, sometimes because it's cheaper to license instead of giving the inglorious task to a musician/composer to redo something in that style.
i watched a youtube video about film composition in major pictures and how it typically ends up being derivative of other movies of similar genre for both being "safe" and recognizable. same pitfall that brings us recurring sequels with same fucking formulas over and over again. and i can understand why an industry focusing on profit falls for that while the consumers keep consuming it, and TBF some sequels that repeat formulas are "alright". but as a creative i would much rather see/listen to something less formulaic and demoscene does bring us that freedom (unless you're obsessed with winning the compo by repeating a compo winner formula i guess).
Kubrick's films wouldn't be the same without classical music.
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@Smaugur, I'm all for anarchy.
Sign me in.. I'm fed up already enough with demo scene socialism and admiring regulations, especially pitched by folks who create little and mostly just talk.. playing the journalist role.
I like it old way, hack it... or fuck it.. but most of all grab the credit because regardless how genuine artistically your product is you made it via tech skills...
The whole point of scene was never to prove its artistic value in the first place.. it's been just a nice bonus if delivered by accident.
@psenough
I think there is at least a fourth reason, when it is the artistic criteria of the director who decides that a specific and pre-existing music is what can artistically best accompany a certain scene, even going so far as to think of those musics when conceiving the scenes. This obviously happens more in cult masterpieces and when the director is very dominant and demanding, than in commercial films.
I think there is at least a fourth reason, when it is the artistic criteria of the director who decides that a specific and pre-existing music is what can artistically best accompany a certain scene, even going so far as to think of those musics when conceiving the scenes. This obviously happens more in cult masterpieces and when the director is very dominant and demanding, than in commercial films.
post malone
All this thread started first here:
https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=101984
and then
bifat started this thread for further discuss what i mean with genuine, So look at the first thread where it all started and then you will get the hole picture. :)
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Still you seem to use the term genuine like before without giving an example or explanation.
All this thread started first here:
https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=101984
and then
bifat started this thread for further discuss what i mean with genuine, So look at the first thread where it all started and then you will get the hole picture. :)
Pretending you've made something you haven't = silly and unethical
Re-using/re-positioning/subverting a culturally recognisable artefact = awesome; a feature of all media/art forms (such as movies as discussed above); creative in its own right; probably closer to some of the collectivist values that many people on the demoscene seem to espouse.
tl;dr - I <3 ripping
Re-using/re-positioning/subverting a culturally recognisable artefact = awesome; a feature of all media/art forms (such as movies as discussed above); creative in its own right; probably closer to some of the collectivist values that many people on the demoscene seem to espouse.
tl;dr - I <3 ripping
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bifat started this thread for further discuss what i mean with genuine, So look at the first thread where it all started and then you will get the hole picture. :)
Ok then, if we look at your post in the comments section of said production, you define genuine with a word wall containing trust, reputation, authenticity, inspirational and educational value, benchmarking, creativity, pride, fostering community participation, avoidance of disillusion, sincerity, cultural significance, preservation of history, documentation of evolution of technology and creativity, something not legacy-diluting, competitive integrity, accolades reflecting true skill and effort - and more.
Many terms are undefined, or define themselves mutually. Even if that would be helpful, introducing so many terms without further explanation, all demos are equally genuine and fake at the same time. It's drowning an interesting topic in a salad of words, and terms dancing ring-around-a-rosy. That's exactly what got me wondered. If you prefer, we can rip each and every sentence to shreds piecemeal...
"Throw up compo" surely means another Wurstwasser event?
got for it!
got for it!
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all demos are equally genuine and fake at the same time
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If you prefer, we can rip each and every sentence to shreds piecemeal...
Carry on, bitfat. I'm curious to see how good at reality distortion you really are!
This if even worse than LinkedIn. The question was answered halfway throught the first page by Okkie.
This can't be LinkedIn because there are way too few recruiters and coaches sharing inspirational quotes.
