Riots in Hungary
category: general [glöplog]
A source here or there wouldn't hurt though. It doesn't have to be an exhaustive list you know...
no need to justify racist ideas. kthxbye.
Here you go: for example, Dr. Ferenc Badinyi-Jós, Dr. István Kiszely, Dr. János Drábik, Dr. Kornél Bakay, Dr. Gábor Pap. They are prominent researchers of Hungarian ancestry. Unfortunately I don't know which of their works were published in English, and where they are available. I could cite megabytes of their works, and have tons of MP3s of their presentations, but that's all in Hungarian.
As for racism, Zest, congratulations on your well washed brain, yes, you simply win by not even listening. Ever you did?
As for racism, Zest, congratulations on your well washed brain, yes, you simply win by not even listening. Ever you did?
Has there actually ever been any significant Hungarian scientist / philosopher / author who was not Jewish?
i still think its said that with so many genepoles we havent got any people who can get drunk by old milk yet !!
What's really the point in proving that some country or another had a successful history when this doesn't change anything about the individuals of today but the cultural context they've exeprienced for a lifetime? An asshole is an asshole and I don't care wheter he's Hungarian, Austrian or American and cool/smart/interesting persons can also be found in each country of the world today. I'm thankful for each invention which brought mankind one step further but in the end those inventors are in no way related to me anyways - I can't be proud of any quantum leap caused by an Austrian because my very own heritage is just random and I did nothing but exist to in any way relate to those advancements.
A thesis: what if patriotism would be the next big evil after religion? Discuss! Looking at e.g. America I find this very likely to be a field to be profoundly exploited by the leadership of the country.
Long life the human race, not some countries!
A thesis: what if patriotism would be the next big evil after religion? Discuss! Looking at e.g. America I find this very likely to be a field to be profoundly exploited by the leadership of the country.
Long life the human race, not some countries!
"A thesis: what if patriotism would be the next big evil after religion? "
In Sweden and Norway it is. Germany used to be good, but now they are back to the square of nazis (see: World Cup).
In Sweden and Norway it is. Germany used to be good, but now they are back to the square of nazis (see: World Cup).
stefan: oh please, not again.
sparcus: oja :)
We demand proofs of his claims and Tomcat respond us that he has tons of megabytes of MP3s but we all need to learn Hungarian before.
;)
;)
The reason why right-extremist parties such as the NPD are getting so strong in the impoverished parts of (eastern) Germany is that patriotism is still considered a taboo in Germany. By displaying patriotism offensively as one of their main ideological components, the NPD clearly breaks this taboo and thus attracts votes from people who want to protest against the current political system.
In order to fight the NPD, German democratic parties have to become more patriotic again!
In order to fight the NPD, German democratic parties have to become more patriotic again!
Nation states are soooo 20th century...
Adok: For once I have to agree. Patriotism itself can be considered the ultimate proof that Humans Suck (TM), but for that very reason it (and related sociological effects) won't go away anytime soon. And the political climate that was established in post-WW2 germany ("yeah, I'm German, sorry for that") is IMHO even morepathetic than the mindless flag-waving of most other countries. And it's much worse: Patriotism (as wrong as it is) gives people a good feeling. The blatant German Anti-Patriotism doesn't. At all.
And Humans mostly try to act in a way that makes them feel good. Goths/Emos/Women excluded.
That's what I liked about the World Cup: For four weeks Germany looked like every other mindless flag-waving country in this world. This has almost ceased again - but if in the end we could arrive somewhere in the middle ("it's ok to be German") that would be the best thing that could happen to this country.
Sadly our so-called democratic leaders have used that wave of patriotism during the world cup solely to sneak through really unpopular (read: everyone will have to pay more) reforms below the public's radar. But well.
And Humans mostly try to act in a way that makes them feel good. Goths/Emos/Women excluded.
That's what I liked about the World Cup: For four weeks Germany looked like every other mindless flag-waving country in this world. This has almost ceased again - but if in the end we could arrive somewhere in the middle ("it's ok to be German") that would be the best thing that could happen to this country.
Sadly our so-called democratic leaders have used that wave of patriotism during the world cup solely to sneak through really unpopular (read: everyone will have to pay more) reforms below the public's radar. But well.
Patriotism is for blockheads, dear Adok.
ham: correct. And now consider what 99% of any given population is consisting of.
plz 2 b not confusing Patriotism with Nationalism.
Those two are completely different feelings.
Patritotism is the _love_ everyone has for where he is from (not only nationwise but cultural heritage and "where my friends are", "where my familiy is"). I would argue that everyone is patriotic, wether that is on a nation-wide level is ones own choice. Also, a "true patriot" will understand that everyone else loves where he is from as well and will accept that. Everyone loves his mommy, dont we? And there is no real discussion about whose mommy is the bestest...but general acceptance that ones own mommy is the one that is loved most.
Nationalism, on the other hand, is the _hate_ of everything else becasue of the belief of the superiority of ones own heritage. Please dont confuse love and hate, kthx. I guess one starts as a patriot but then does not quite get the turn with the "all the other people love their hometowns too" and so turns to being a Nationalist.
The flag-waving during the WorldCup this year was neither patriotic nor nationalistic (on a wide scale) it was just "being hip". As much as wearing ones basecap backwards is "being a crack-nigger", wearing black-red-gold during soccer games is being patriotic. It's fashion, nothing more.
Those two are completely different feelings.
Patritotism is the _love_ everyone has for where he is from (not only nationwise but cultural heritage and "where my friends are", "where my familiy is"). I would argue that everyone is patriotic, wether that is on a nation-wide level is ones own choice. Also, a "true patriot" will understand that everyone else loves where he is from as well and will accept that. Everyone loves his mommy, dont we? And there is no real discussion about whose mommy is the bestest...but general acceptance that ones own mommy is the one that is loved most.
Nationalism, on the other hand, is the _hate_ of everything else becasue of the belief of the superiority of ones own heritage. Please dont confuse love and hate, kthx. I guess one starts as a patriot but then does not quite get the turn with the "all the other people love their hometowns too" and so turns to being a Nationalist.
The flag-waving during the WorldCup this year was neither patriotic nor nationalistic (on a wide scale) it was just "being hip". As much as wearing ones basecap backwards is "being a crack-nigger", wearing black-red-gold during soccer games is being patriotic. It's fashion, nothing more.
patriots are best used against saddam scuds.
steam: This is a circus, you know, don't take seriously and literally all the posts.
anesthetic: ROTFL
kb: I don't want to be too pessimist. Anyway, remember that our beloved Eugenist Doktor is part (as he claims) of the smartest 1% of the global population. ;)
anesthetic: ROTFL
kb: I don't want to be too pessimist. Anyway, remember that our beloved Eugenist Doktor is part (as he claims) of the smartest 1% of the global population. ;)
steam: Still, patriotism and nationalism lie dangerously close together, as do love and hate in general. It's a really small step from loving one thing to hating everything else just because of being different.
The danger lies in the NPD catering to patriotic feelings with the quite obvious intent to turn the whole thing into nationalism as soon as they've reached a certain momentum. So in that sense Adok is right: If the established slightly more democratic parties lost their fear of patriotism (albeit carefully), they would be able to stop this development. People want to know they're cared about; and the NPD do exactly that.
I disagree on your "world cup == fashion and nothing else" statement btw, but let's continue that after I finally got breakfast today *g*
The danger lies in the NPD catering to patriotic feelings with the quite obvious intent to turn the whole thing into nationalism as soon as they've reached a certain momentum. So in that sense Adok is right: If the established slightly more democratic parties lost their fear of patriotism (albeit carefully), they would be able to stop this development. People want to know they're cared about; and the NPD do exactly that.
I disagree on your "world cup == fashion and nothing else" statement btw, but let's continue that after I finally got breakfast today *g*
Patriotism is the personal feeling of attachment and pride people feel for the place they were born. (Which makes the folk singer sing about the "joyful cretins that happen to be born somewhere")
Nationalism is an ideology, which places an idea, "the nation" above the individual. It places the interest of that idea "the nation" first and foremost, and individuals are supposed to serve it. To make it concrete, that idea is given a form through either perceived traits of character, language, and culture. In that system, nations are confronted together.
Of course, since we haven't found a way to communicate with such a concept, inevitably, somebody has to do the job of embodying that concept of nation. Nationalist leaders are pathetic fools who feel they are always right: since they see their will as embodying the nation's will. The imaginary will of an idea incompatible with the well being of free individuals.
And fascism is that idea pushed throughout all layers of society. The individual disappears to only leave a hierarchy of groups were is supposed to unequivocably be.
Nationalists are demented people infatuated with ideas.
Nationalism is an ideology, which places an idea, "the nation" above the individual. It places the interest of that idea "the nation" first and foremost, and individuals are supposed to serve it. To make it concrete, that idea is given a form through either perceived traits of character, language, and culture. In that system, nations are confronted together.
Of course, since we haven't found a way to communicate with such a concept, inevitably, somebody has to do the job of embodying that concept of nation. Nationalist leaders are pathetic fools who feel they are always right: since they see their will as embodying the nation's will. The imaginary will of an idea incompatible with the well being of free individuals.
And fascism is that idea pushed throughout all layers of society. The individual disappears to only leave a hierarchy of groups were is supposed to unequivocably be.
Nationalists are demented people infatuated with ideas.
The old "who guards the guards?" comes to mind... people like tomcat, which stands out from the general mass critizicing and questions the regime and goverments. I have to give him kudos for that. Then there are other things I don't agree with but everyone have the right to state their opinion.
Peace love and understanding <3
Peace love and understanding <3
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." - Samuel Johnson (September 18 [O.S. September 7] 1709[1] – December 13, 1784)
"Ruotsalaisia emme ole, venäläisiksi emme tule, olkaamme siis suomalaisia." -JV Snellman (May 12, 1806 – July 4, 1881)
direct quoting from wikipedia sucks :(
tribão: Please, use English. :P