pouët.net

How the hell would we know if you did? :)

Not that I believe you have, but the Chewbacca-defense doesn't really fly.

gloom: I'm telling you, I don't hijack accounts. You'll just have to trust me.

gloom: After all hijacking some high profile accounts on this site would be pretty ludicrous, wouldn't it?

you mean everything would have a carpet pattern?

ludicrous speed! \0/


(sorry, i just really had to)

gasman: so if scene.org happens to go down, and i am supposed to change my openid provider to something else and still keep all my "stuff", where would that openid provider look up that my login and password were correct? what did i miss now :)

ok, that was enough discussion time, let's make a vote.

please raise signs:
[1] for gasman, openid and simple solutions to simple problems. also ok to vote this if you don't get it at all but like gasman's demos so he's probably going to do just fine.

[2] for leia, privacy, paranoia and avoiding the danger of a journalist editing your slengpung "visited parties" list just when you were going to win the national elections. also ok to pick this one if you've no clue what you're talking about but "something feels wrong".

[3] for scamp, utter paranoia, and please get rid of sceneid all together, i didn't realise it was so horrid yet! vote this if your pouet account is as dear to you as your hifi set and your bike.

[1] !!

[1.5]

that's just nasty.

oh no skrebbel, you forgot to write "wanting to make your own choice" to mine :(

[1]

How about [4], for not giving the majority the final say in your personal affairs.

[pi]

The other openid provider would use a different login and password, and Demozoo would consider it to be a separate account with separate "stuff" unless you took one of the following steps:

1) delegation: You put the appropriate two lines in the HTML header at www.darkside.no/leia (or wherever you want) and use that URL as your OpenID, and then accumulate your "stuff" under that login. If scene.org goes down, you change your page to point to leijaa.other-openid-provider.com. That one will have different login details, but if www.darkside.no/leia asserts that it is leijaa.other-openid-provider.com, and you're logged in there, then Demozoo can be confident that it has the right person.

2) (not yet implemented): You link both OpenIDs to your account at Demozoo. To do this, you'd log in to both OpenID providers simultaneously, to prove that they're owned by the same person. Obviously, you can't do this while scene.org is down, so the linking is something you'd set up beforehand (or if I add a 'merge me beautifull' feature - which I probably will - afterwards).

skrebbel: I acctually think that sceneid should have some new rules about what sites are allowed to do with login information without actual consensus from users. Yes.

So I go for [3].

I don't trust anyone, and I hate using a single password/login for all the sites, so I vote [3].

Seriously, have demozoo have its own login/password system not connected to anything else, I really prefer that.

That was for the *scene id* thing.

Now about demozoo:

- If it really brings something more than pouet, why not, but then in this case it should probably replace pouet entirelly.

- It looks horrible: It looks like facebook, it looks web 2.0, it looks like a site I don't want to spend time on it. It's jus dry.

- I don't like the "zoo" in the name. "DemoDB" (a la "csdb"), or whatever, but please some respect. You have the list of demos, groups, sceners, in a "zoo" ? That's just an offensive name. I perhaps had apes as ancestors, does not mean I'm happy to be behind bars :p

And PS: perhaps it's ok for you, because you discussed to Gasman and it was ok for you that he could have a priviledged access to the database, but for all the people who spent an insane amount of time building this whole list of data (I'm not among them) I just think it's not very nice: The least would have been to tell people about the whole process.

Obviously I'm not the only one having discovered Demozoo when gasman openned this thread, clicked on the link, and got a WTF??!!! reaction.

About "polishing a turd", all I have to say is that a database is a database. And obviously if Gasman was able to transfert all the pouet data to his own database, then it was probably not THAT complicated to extract them.

The value of a site is in the data, not the crappy php/css code all around.

I'm more than certain than with his obvious skills at web stuff, gasman could skin Demozoo to make it look like pouet.

Pouet 2.0 based on Gasman code and new database, giving all the deserved credits to him to recognise the work ? Absolutely no problem with that. Keeping two extremely overlapping bases on demos, with just enough differences (comments/credits) to justify having to use both sites ? I just think that plain ridiculous.

(and if people think this post is ridiculous, trollesque, retarded, I don't really care)

the scene is a zoo.

Maybe it will, and maybe one day I will give it a blue background with trumpets on it and call it Pouet. But I'm not going to do it until I've got the full backing of the Pouet dev team, and I'm sure as hell not going to do it right now - it's a political minefield a billion times larger than the one I've landed in already. I can hear the cries now: "WTF? One minute ps gives him admin access, next minute he's staging a complete fucking takeover with his own codebase that ps and Gargaj have no access to?!?"


Agreed. I've put minimal effort into the design, because I'm not a designer, and I'm surrounded by people who can do a much better job of it than I can. It's entirely expected that nobody's stepped up and volunteered yet, because like Scamp observes, Demozoo isn't actually at the point yet that everyone can immediately see where it's going and is prepared to jump on board and put their time and energy into it. (And to be honest, if a hotshot designer came to me tomorrow and said "hell yes, I'm going to make you a proper design for Demozoo RIGHT NOW" my answer would be largely "um, hold on, I still need to figure out exactly what information needs to be put up there. But, like, you rule and everything, and let me buy you large quantities of alcohol.")


I guess you have a similar objection to Slengpung (meaning either "swinging bollocks" or "guy who fucks around") then? :-)
Demozoo was the best name that came out of a mini brainstorming session on #ukscene. I wanted to go for something catchy, memorable and fun - and something with a domain name that wasn't already taken, obviously. (For a while I was using the working title of 'scenepeople'. Before that it was 'scenedb' I think. I dismissed both of those as bland and unmemorable, and 'demodb' would have gone into the same bucket.). Anyhow, I've always felt that the most successful website names are the ones that stray away from "literal description of the website's purpose". Google? Yahoo? Amazon? Ebay? What the hell are they meant to mean?



I don't get this at all. You just heard about this project, on a pouet thread, while it's still in its early stages. Where did you *expect* to hear about it exactly? A mass mailing to all the addresses pulled from the pouet database? A celebrity launch party with free champagne and naked chicks? Yes, the launch was low-key and quite possibly slipped below people's radars, simply because it's not big or notable enough yet to deserve spamming it everywhere and giving the impression that - as Gargaj puts it - I'm descending from the heavens with a halo and a roadmap to the promised land. People will find out about it when it becomes relevant to them.

And you are being informed. You even get to watch it being built. It's just that rather than being grateful for that, you're choosing to complain about the design and the lack of overwhelming advances over Pouet in its current state.


Reading stuff out of a not-quite-perfectly-designed database is one thing - building a complex application on top of it is another.


It's a lot more reasonable than the last one, so that's fine by me...

i've really been hoping for the last few pages that gasman will turn around and say: "well fuck you then. why am i bothering to try and make something potentially useful and important for the scene in future when the scene is by and large a bunch of ungrateful, whining, up themselves bastards who they think they are important enough that millions of people out there are specifically trying to stalk them on the internet so they can hack their pouet account and do some fake posts in their name - not that anyone would notice, because their own posts are ridiculous enough? people who, if you for example told them to "fuck off and stop making that oric cracktro shit and do a nice opengl1.1 windows demo that i can enjoy" would go "fuck you, im doing exactly what i want to do in the scene", but would think nothing of demanding that i stop developing my own site and spend months of my free time trying to fix the 7th layer of website hacking hell that is pouet instead, and actually be irritated that maybe i didnt want to?".

unfortunately he didn't. i would have. gasman is clearly much better natured than me.

im personally all for a nice clean database with richer information like production credits, and for a moving to a more decentralised login id scheme which doesnt solely rely on a certain server which has a habit of yo-yoing uptime around certain major holidays. :) go gasman, go.

If that was true the ranting about demozone wouldn't have been.

I agree. I would love to see a new pouet which is more like csdb. Making it possible to add credits to sceners for productions and then connect the sceners to the existing accounts of pouet. Also giving more freedom to all users to edit entries but with the possibility to lock the entries you "own".
If gasman prefers doing his own site, fine, perhaps it will become the new pouet. But I would have preferred seeing the work being done here instead.

hollowman: don't give up the hope though ;)

a moderated technical subforum besides the free beloved oldskool pouët.net bbs would be a good addition as discussed in another thread :)

[1]

smash: there's a difference between deciding what people want and asking what people want :)