Amiga - native Paula sound
category: general [glöplog]
Paula is a great sound chip, but IMHO having only two channels per stereo side doesn't really sound that good, especially with music modules, where there's percussion on one side and bass on the other - it's jarringly discrete. A long two-channel stereo sample, on the other hand - great! This is why I choose to listen to Amiga music in mono - not even partially merging them is good, I prefer total mixture. What about you - how do you listen to Amiga music?
Has anyone ever created a dual-Paula Amiga modification? People have done so for dual-SIDs and dual-Pokeys, which I think sound great with the extra channels, such as those Greyscale SAPs. So has the same been done for the Amiga? That would be awesome if so, especially with OctaMED music modules - that's a possibility of 16 channels of Amiga PCM sound!
Has anyone ever created a dual-Paula Amiga modification? People have done so for dual-SIDs and dual-Pokeys, which I think sound great with the extra channels, such as those Greyscale SAPs. So has the same been done for the Amiga? That would be awesome if so, especially with OctaMED music modules - that's a possibility of 16 channels of Amiga PCM sound!
Imitating a jaded scener:
Go make a dual Paula and some modified tracker programs about it? It's only 640 man-hours of work.
Also, modify the rest of the custom chips to make room for the DMA slots to feed the second Paula.
It's not a very developed idea to say "more channels, wouldn't that be better?"
I have satellites L and R to the left and right of the monitor. Blends fine in stereo with the mono bass at my feet.
Go make a dual Paula and some modified tracker programs about it? It's only 640 man-hours of work.
Also, modify the rest of the custom chips to make room for the DMA slots to feed the second Paula.
It's not a very developed idea to say "more channels, wouldn't that be better?"
I have satellites L and R to the left and right of the monitor. Blends fine in stereo with the mono bass at my feet.
Quote:
I have satellites L and R to the left and right of the monitor.
That always worked nicely for me too. Composed all my mods using a speaker setup like this.
Not worth it, then? I'll stick with mono, then.
It's not a grudge against the Amiga, I would do the same thing with PC music modules from that time, up to about 6-8 channels.
And more channels is better, it's like having an orchestra at your disposal, by the S3Ms and XMs I've heard. As the number of channels diminishes, it's less and less the creativity and ingenuity of the musician to create vast expansive works, and more and more technical limitations.
Not to say that's a disadvantage or a slight on the musician's talents - I've heard some amazing tunes produced on the lowly ZX Spectrum beeper, for example. But that was only one channel.
It's not a grudge against the Amiga, I would do the same thing with PC music modules from that time, up to about 6-8 channels.
And more channels is better, it's like having an orchestra at your disposal, by the S3Ms and XMs I've heard. As the number of channels diminishes, it's less and less the creativity and ingenuity of the musician to create vast expansive works, and more and more technical limitations.
Not to say that's a disadvantage or a slight on the musician's talents - I've heard some amazing tunes produced on the lowly ZX Spectrum beeper, for example. But that was only one channel.
Quote:
I have satellites L and R to the left and right of the monitor. Blends fine in stereo with the mono bass at my feet.
Yes, with speakers it's better - I was thinking more of earphones.
I always mixed to mono (with a custom made cable) when I was composing with earphones.
With speakers everything sounds OK and the big separation is not so important.
Nowadays I tend to start protracker in WinUAE, so I often adjust the audio mix to 20% or 30% when I use earphones.
With speakers everything sounds OK and the big separation is not so important.
Nowadays I tend to start protracker in WinUAE, so I often adjust the audio mix to 20% or 30% when I use earphones.
I use this Winamp-Plugin:
http://www.stereotool.com/download/dsp_stereo_tool_installer_703.exe
with this setting:
http://www.datenkeule.de/dl.php?file=file1380239275Maximizer%20-%20MOD%20Files%20(ProTracker).zip
Its a multiband compression with stereo diffusion and centered bass frequencies.
http://www.stereotool.com/download/dsp_stereo_tool_installer_703.exe
with this setting:
http://www.datenkeule.de/dl.php?file=file1380239275Maximizer%20-%20MOD%20Files%20(ProTracker).zip
Its a multiband compression with stereo diffusion and centered bass frequencies.
... forgot: channel separation must be 100% to make the setting work.
Two mods processed thru the Stereo-Tool with the settings file:
http://www.datenkeule.de/dl.php?file=file1380240667mod_examples.zip
http://www.datenkeule.de/dl.php?file=file1380240667mod_examples.zip
XMPlay can render the whole module out per-instrument, and then you can pull the channels into your favorite DAW and pan them manually.
Quote:
What about you - how do you listen to Amiga music?
On the real hardware, with the 100% stereo separation.
With the 4 hardware channels on the Amiga, and a decent CPU card (read: anything including and above a 030 with some Fast RAM) you can use the 14bit playback trick and software mixing, and this means you can set your stereo separation and panning of any channel at will. If you run your ECS or AGA system in DblPAL or Productivity mode you can even do that in up to 50Khz frequency in practice, with the stock Paula chip...That sounds reasonably well and players like Eagleplayer are supporting it. I think there are even trackers which support this configuration like Digibooster, which does the playback with AHI.
No need to tamper with the hardware. The Amiga can do just fine as it is. :P
No need to tamper with the hardware. The Amiga can do just fine as it is. :P
Quote:
XMPlay can render the whole module out per-instrument, and then you can pull the channels into your favorite DAW and pan them manually.
They did something similar with the Mindcandy Amiga edition for the 5.1 sound output of the prods featured.
Quote:
Quote:What about you - how do you listen to Amiga music?
On the real hardware, with the 100% stereo separation.
What do you do if you no longer have a real Amiga, nor the room for it? I have to resort to MODs then (and hope WinAmp plays them properly) or ADFs/files (and hope WinUAE doesn't crash with it) ;)
I can set the stereo separation with WinUAE easily, but outside that I'd have to use a tool like Goldwave to do the same thing. And the MP3s would balloon in size with the extra stereo data.
I said I didn't like stereo Amiga sound, but some prods used the facility quite well, and the Amiga WAS designed for stereo from the get-go - and frankly, my current files sound a bit flat and lifeless in mono. The Turrican 2 title music would sound much better with partial stereo.
Quote:
No need to tamper with the hardware. The Amiga can do just fine as it is. :P
That's GREAT to hear. And I read about the 14bit mode, but never heard it - are there any examples on YouTube? In any case, it's good to know users are making the most of it.
Quote:
and hope WinAmp plays them properly
I seriously hope for you that you are not using the original Winamp plugin (in_mod) to play modules.
Quote:
That's GREAT to hear. And I read about the 14bit mode, but never heard it - are there any examples on YouTube?
Many recent productions with streamed (i.e. not tracked) soundtracks do this; They play the highest 8 bits of a stereo channel at full volume (64) on one channel and the lower bits on another channel with minimum volume (1). Combining this gives you a practical 14-bit resolution.
Quote:
Quote:and hope WinAmp plays them properly
I seriously hope for you that you are not using the original Winamp plugin (in_mod) to play modules.
If there's a much superior one available, please tell me.
so, is the oldsk00l plugin still da shit on winamp? I think it also has some bugs..
<rant>
There is a very good reason the net label Mono was called Mono! The Amiga's "stereo" is a bloody joke! In fact when I hear modules where there is any kind of pan separation I cringe. When you are restricted to 4 channels you have to be pretty clever with your sample placement, this means sometimes drums jump from one channel to another so you can squeeze something else in. If that jump is from channel 1 to 2, then you hear your kick drum jump from left to right.
Another thing I hate is when tracks are rendered with interpolation. The 8-bit nature of the samples means that you essentially create fake hi-end because the samples are rather crunchy. The interpolation essentially makes them sound muffled, turn that shit off!
As for things like DigiBooster, thats all well and good but you'll never be able to use it for an OCS demo and probably not real time for an 060 demo either.
And lastly.. wtf was that low-pass filter all about! pointless!
</rant>
I do love my Amiga :)
There is a very good reason the net label Mono was called Mono! The Amiga's "stereo" is a bloody joke! In fact when I hear modules where there is any kind of pan separation I cringe. When you are restricted to 4 channels you have to be pretty clever with your sample placement, this means sometimes drums jump from one channel to another so you can squeeze something else in. If that jump is from channel 1 to 2, then you hear your kick drum jump from left to right.
Another thing I hate is when tracks are rendered with interpolation. The 8-bit nature of the samples means that you essentially create fake hi-end because the samples are rather crunchy. The interpolation essentially makes them sound muffled, turn that shit off!
As for things like DigiBooster, thats all well and good but you'll never be able to use it for an OCS demo and probably not real time for an 060 demo either.
And lastly.. wtf was that low-pass filter all about! pointless!
</rant>
I do love my Amiga :)
http://protracker.sourceforge.net/ | http://16-bits.org/ProTracker-win32.zip
^ Best player I've found for mods on the PC is this real labour of love from 8bitbubsy - this player really sounds as close as I've heard to a real amiga - lovely.
Plus he's updating it all the time...
U can't beat the real thing but we can come damn close to sounding like it :)
^ Best player I've found for mods on the PC is this real labour of love from 8bitbubsy - this player really sounds as close as I've heard to a real amiga - lovely.
Plus he's updating it all the time...
U can't beat the real thing but we can come damn close to sounding like it :)
+1 Andy! He's done a fantastic job of that.
Quote:
U can't beat the real thing but we can come damn close to sounding like it :)
Real thing - Amiga+1084S (as we all know 'S' stands for "Super Ultra Hifi Amigaaaaa Sound!"). Come even closer then
http://www.plogue.com/products/chipcrusher/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJmPn5mR3h8
How much music back then was composed for (and on) the speakers most people had then? Which, generally, was a crappy mono thing built into a tv.
Also, I'll point out that at sundown h0ffman did a really kick-ass set with stereo amigas - although not the kind of stereo we're talking about here :) I don't know what you were doing to them, but I actually had to check what you were playing on, cause it sounded too good to be a pair of a1200s :D
Also, I'll point out that at sundown h0ffman did a really kick-ass set with stereo amigas - although not the kind of stereo we're talking about here :) I don't know what you were doing to them, but I actually had to check what you were playing on, cause it sounded too good to be a pair of a1200s :D
Quote:
If there's a much superior one available, please tell me.
Anything is superior to in_mod. Try in_bass, in_sk00l, or if there is a deliplayer-type plugin for Winamp, use that (for XMPlay, there's xmp-delix). in_openmpt is also worth a try, but is still in testing phase.
DUMB for Foobar2000 works nicely for me (4 channels) http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_dumb.