1 channel soundtracks for demos
category: general [glöplog]
"stereo is virtually meaningless in 90% of applications"
"5.1 is like oak-matured single malt at a rowdy frat party"
discuss
(serious thread... have you ever shared music, one headphone each, and started thinking about the need for more than monoaural sound? this won't go down well with many sceners, whose loci of interest lie with art music, but, you know... and stuff...)
"5.1 is like oak-matured single malt at a rowdy frat party"
discuss
(serious thread... have you ever shared music, one headphone each, and started thinking about the need for more than monoaural sound? this won't go down well with many sceners, whose loci of interest lie with art music, but, you know... and stuff...)
Couldn't you say monoaureal instead of 1 channel? :)
1 channel should be enough for everyone.
Or even monaural!
Your topic is ambiguous : "1 channel soundtrack" can mean "a module using only one channel, one sample at the same time", while you're obviously stating the benefits of monophonic streamed music.
About monophonic music, I agree with you. Most of the time, a hardcore piece of electronic music can be more efficient when mixed in mono instead of stereo. "Stereo" doesn't mean "better" to me. It just means "two channels instead of one, for a bunch of additional possibilities".
About monophonic music, I agree with you. Most of the time, a hardcore piece of electronic music can be more efficient when mixed in mono instead of stereo. "Stereo" doesn't mean "better" to me. It just means "two channels instead of one, for a bunch of additional possibilities".
There's one thing that stereo adds: Space.
That's all there is about it. Of course a hardcore electronic track (or at least its foundation) is best mixed in mono, because you don't want it to be spacious. You want it to be thumping right at you, and this is best achieved by positioning it as precisely as possible. Oh, and in most cases bass sounds better when coming out of two speakers in the same shape :)
Still, at least I prefer the additional dimension that stereo sound gives you.
That's all there is about it. Of course a hardcore electronic track (or at least its foundation) is best mixed in mono, because you don't want it to be spacious. You want it to be thumping right at you, and this is best achieved by positioning it as precisely as possible. Oh, and in most cases bass sounds better when coming out of two speakers in the same shape :)
Still, at least I prefer the additional dimension that stereo sound gives you.
Quote:
There's one thing that stereo adds: Space.
damn right..
Well, all I can say is listen to "This Binary Universe" by BT in 5.1 on a properly set up, reasonably priced surround system - if you're into IDM style stuff, it's great. For me, it was probably one of the most standout musical experiences I've ever had - a lot of attention was put into the spacial positioning, it's just fantastic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Binary_Universe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Binary_Universe
btw, do not listen to it in stereo though! it's no where near as good, best to have your first listen in 5.1
gameboy demos are mono right?
I have not enough "space" to put 5.1 speakers. :P
BT is such a tosser though. I could never make myself listen to him. :(
And, I wonder how many people actually have 5.1 channel audio setups. I know I don't. Had one of those cheap DVD surround systems at one point though, and it was complete crap. There's no way to "correctly" position all six speakers in any real-life room anyway, plus getting the balance right is a pain in the arse just for listening from one position. And then shift your arse a few ft in any direction, or change the volume level a little bit, or listen to a different genre of music, and suddenly everything sounds off again.
I was also never a fan of subwoofers. Maybe I'm imagining things, but despite the subwoofer the sound from those little bassless satellite speakers is always tinny to me, no matter how much money they've cost. I much prefer good headphones for an immersive listening experience. Plenty of power and space and less outside noise to distract you from it. Isn't that good enough?
And, I wonder how many people actually have 5.1 channel audio setups. I know I don't. Had one of those cheap DVD surround systems at one point though, and it was complete crap. There's no way to "correctly" position all six speakers in any real-life room anyway, plus getting the balance right is a pain in the arse just for listening from one position. And then shift your arse a few ft in any direction, or change the volume level a little bit, or listen to a different genre of music, and suddenly everything sounds off again.
I was also never a fan of subwoofers. Maybe I'm imagining things, but despite the subwoofer the sound from those little bassless satellite speakers is always tinny to me, no matter how much money they've cost. I much prefer good headphones for an immersive listening experience. Plenty of power and space and less outside noise to distract you from it. Isn't that good enough?
http://modarchive.org/data/downloads.php?moduleid=158975#1_channel_moog.it
one channel!
one channel!
the_Ye-Ti - there's no reason why Gameboy demos should be entirely mono, since the Gameboy outputs stereo and most GB music editors can do 'left/right/centre', of sorts. Most people using stuff like Nanoloop and LSDJ today are dropping in panned notes all over the place.
Yeah, 5.1 sort of pisses me off. I'm not a fan of having to construct an artificial environment to mix audio and then just hoping that the listener will construct an equally artificial environment, to similar specifications, in order to hear it. Yeah, you could say the same of stereo, but at least L/R stereo is conceptually analogous to humans' left/right ears.
At work, we've got a stereo A/V studio, an 8.1 capable A/V studio, a 5.1-capable recording studio and an 18.3 semi-permanent performance space...and the 5.1 studio gets the least use. Our multichannel artists, it seems, think they may as well go the whole hog with 18.3 (or greater) or just fall back to stereo.
Genelec are trying to sell us a 25.5, self-calibrating, CAT-5-linked setup :( We told them to get lost... (besides, we've no money left after the last load of Genelecs)...but if you wanted to do multichannel right, I guess that's the way you'd do it.
But it still means that in order to convey your true compositional intent, you have to grab your listener and strap him in a chair RIGHT in the middle of your ridiculous multichannel auditory diffusion environment. And if you're that much of a perfectionist, maybe anything less will be imperfect and so a waste of time :)
And Doom's right - "good enough" is a reasonable, realistic target for everyone to aim for. After all, we don't want to become Hi-Fi nerds, do we?
Yeah, 5.1 sort of pisses me off. I'm not a fan of having to construct an artificial environment to mix audio and then just hoping that the listener will construct an equally artificial environment, to similar specifications, in order to hear it. Yeah, you could say the same of stereo, but at least L/R stereo is conceptually analogous to humans' left/right ears.
At work, we've got a stereo A/V studio, an 8.1 capable A/V studio, a 5.1-capable recording studio and an 18.3 semi-permanent performance space...and the 5.1 studio gets the least use. Our multichannel artists, it seems, think they may as well go the whole hog with 18.3 (or greater) or just fall back to stereo.
Genelec are trying to sell us a 25.5, self-calibrating, CAT-5-linked setup :( We told them to get lost... (besides, we've no money left after the last load of Genelecs)...but if you wanted to do multichannel right, I guess that's the way you'd do it.
But it still means that in order to convey your true compositional intent, you have to grab your listener and strap him in a chair RIGHT in the middle of your ridiculous multichannel auditory diffusion environment. And if you're that much of a perfectionist, maybe anything less will be imperfect and so a waste of time :)
And Doom's right - "good enough" is a reasonable, realistic target for everyone to aim for. After all, we don't want to become Hi-Fi nerds, do we?
Quote:
After all, we don't want to become Hi-Fi nerds, do we?
I resent this!
we all want low fidelity- high quality!
Yeah, mono really is enough for a lot of cases. Somebody bought me an 'mp3 watch' ages back, that was great for going running and stuff, but only had 32mb. I used to compress music down to mono, 22khz, 32kbit.. it was absolutely fine for general listening, so long as I picked the right music.
A lot of music makes heavy use of stereo (or surround) effects though, and becomes really lifeless in mono.
Doom: a lot of 'home theatre kit' type things are not much more than a sub and a bunch of tweeters spread round the room. They add a lot of tricks to make the sound better, and it sounds awesome for about 5 minutes as there's tons of high-end detail to give the 3d effect. Then you notice the whole mid range is missing and the bass is nothing but a loud boom now and then, and wish you'd paid the same price for a decent pair of stereo speakers ;)
A lot of music makes heavy use of stereo (or surround) effects though, and becomes really lifeless in mono.
Doom: a lot of 'home theatre kit' type things are not much more than a sub and a bunch of tweeters spread round the room. They add a lot of tricks to make the sound better, and it sounds awesome for about 5 minutes as there's tons of high-end detail to give the 3d effect. Then you notice the whole mid range is missing and the bass is nothing but a loud boom now and then, and wish you'd paid the same price for a decent pair of stereo speakers ;)
Also, what about this newfangled fad called COLOR? What does everyone think about that, is it really needed?
umm... miles of smiles!!
Command Cyborg: Well, if BTs name wasn't on it you'd maybe like it...
But in regards to 5.1 generally - whatever floats your boat... I think it's ok, but I generally am happy with a nicely setup stereo system.
But in regards to 5.1 generally - whatever floats your boat... I think it's ok, but I generally am happy with a nicely setup stereo system.
rc55: That is entirely likely. People pick on me because I have a Spice Girls song in my (entirely legal!!!) MP3 collection :(, so I know how you feel. Of course, props to BT for inventing the demoscene.
So 5.1 is rubbish for music. But should i get a surround setup for watching action films?
Command Cyborg: Ah yes, I remember that thread - but that advert from apple may suggest he's a prodigy (I mean, I think he's excellent and ground breaking consistantly). I'm pretty certain that his interactions with the artscene were completely abstract from the demoscene. I mean, Temis wasn't exactly in LA at the time to show him, erm, some older demo or something.
xeron: i wouldn't say 5.1 is bad for music. Actually it's great for music, but there's a whole lot of 'buts' involved.
First, a cheap surround setup with a sub + those tiny speakers will be shit for music, because the speakers are shit. It'll be shit for films too, but probably miles better than tv built-in speakers so perhaps still not a bad thing. A proper surround amp with decent speakers will sound good for music and films.
Next, you need 'the right shaped room'. Ideally, you need a square room with your tv in the middle of one wall, and the sofa in the middle of the room. I.e. not a normal living room. I have the sofa against a wall so it's impossible to get the rear speakers to the rear, and the tv off to one side because I don't want it to be inside the fireplace. It works pretty well, but nowhere near as good as it should be.
Finally, you need music in some kind of surround format. There's not a lot of it, and if you're not into buying music dvds 'just because it's surround' and you want to listen to stuff you actually like, there's probably going to be very, very few.
First, a cheap surround setup with a sub + those tiny speakers will be shit for music, because the speakers are shit. It'll be shit for films too, but probably miles better than tv built-in speakers so perhaps still not a bad thing. A proper surround amp with decent speakers will sound good for music and films.
Next, you need 'the right shaped room'. Ideally, you need a square room with your tv in the middle of one wall, and the sofa in the middle of the room. I.e. not a normal living room. I have the sofa against a wall so it's impossible to get the rear speakers to the rear, and the tv off to one side because I don't want it to be inside the fireplace. It works pretty well, but nowhere near as good as it should be.
Finally, you need music in some kind of surround format. There's not a lot of it, and if you're not into buying music dvds 'just because it's surround' and you want to listen to stuff you actually like, there's probably going to be very, very few.