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The Impossible Thing by Smash Designs [web] & Oxyron [web]
screenshot added by cruzer on 2003-08-12 14:59:12
platform :
type :
release date : april 2003
release party : Breakpoint 2003
compo : c64 4k
ranked : 3rd
  • 22
  • 1
  • 0
popularity : 57%
  • 0.96
alltime top: #5956
added on the 2003-08-12 14:59:11 by cruzer cruzer

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They claim it to run at 25hz (2 frames). But I don't think this is true. You can notice that either by watching it, or by pausing CCS64 (Ctrl+P) and processing to the next frame by pressing N. One screen is drawn in 3 frames.

However, this is one of the very few "it can't be done, something is going wrong in here!" C64 effects that I can't explain. 160*200 output, with pixels doubled on Y, this means 160*100 real calculations of each pixel of the rotozoomer! I don't know how many cycles per frame are availiable in the C64, but I think they are really few to zoom and rotate each pixel of that!!! I really, really, really don't know how they managed this, and there must be a sick trick or something in it, but I can't figure it because it seems like pure software calculations and not a hardware trick :P

rulez added on the 2003-08-12 16:11:54 by Optimus Optimus
wow! amazing screen! the texture is awfully small and ofcourse it cheated (even if it was 4 cycle per pix then still they couldn't manage this speed)..

..but it doesn't show at all, excellent!
rulez added on the 2003-08-12 16:26:47 by earx earx
This one definitely rulez. Well done AEG&Axis!

It puzzles me too... My guess is that it's some clever combination of realtime and "cheat", prolly done by making a badline on each 4th line like 4x4 mode, which means that each char is now 4 2x2-pixels wide and 2 high. Then they prolly rotate the ball and copy it so they have 8 (4x2) different versions of it positioned to start on each of the 8 pixels in the smaller chars. This means that they can now place it anywhere they want on the screen, by altering the chars, which is alot more efficient. But that's prolly alot easier said than done.

Only drawback is that it moves too fast (too much difference between each update.) It would prolly look more smooth with some slower movement I think, but maybe the trick would show too easily then.
rulez added on the 2003-08-12 16:55:54 by cruzer cruzer
awesome. i salute.
rulez added on the 2003-08-12 17:10:57 by Jailbird Jailbird
at the last demoshow at the CCC cologne headquarter AEG was there and explained the effect, but as someone who knows a shit about coding of course forgot it.
rulez added on the 2003-08-12 19:24:54 by dipswitch dipswitch
"i forgot it" i mean
added on the 2003-08-12 19:25:55 by dipswitch dipswitch
I know nothing about the C64 hardware. That's the first C64 prod. I look. From my past of ATARI coder, I'm absolutely amazed by this 4k intro.

It really increase my interrest for this platform.

cruzer: Thank you for trick.
rulez added on the 2003-08-12 20:55:42 by p01 p01
AEG did it again... I guess he'll still be making killer C64 prods when he's a bedridden geezer =)
rulez added on the 2003-08-13 20:17:58 by jazzman jazzman
some tips for all those who want to know how this fucking effect works:
at first, this one is 100% realtime and nothing is cheated by precalculation.
2. sorry cruzer, you are wrong, no badline tricks ! (standart fullscreen charset)
3. this effect would also run in 1x1 pixel resolution (the same speed, not any cycle slower) but we choose 2x2 to get a little bit bigger texture and 2x1 would have get an rectangle texture.
here my tip for you: we used a 16x16 pixel texture (thats the reason why this effect works) 16x16 = 256 ... 256 possible different chars... no more to say from my side. ;)

added on the 2003-08-25 18:39:17 by aeg aeg

AEG rulez.
Jeder der was anderes sagt, kann mal pupsen gehen.

I just hope there'll be some new "Triage" for the C-64 in the future.
rulez added on the 2003-08-27 20:20:57 by defjam defjam
To fill a few gaps (aehaheahehehhaHEHAEHAheaheaheahehahe) :

- 16x16 texture -> 256 pixels
- rotzoom a 4x4 pixel chunk (1 char big at 2x2 resolution)
- now make 16x16 versions of this char starting at every possible texel and fill a whole charset of it
- rotzoom again in 40x25 chars resolution and put into each vram char the char that's starting at that texel
- find out that the thing isn't SO impossible :)
rulez added on the 2003-08-27 22:23:37 by kb_ kb_
So in fact it's only a really twisted version of the x part of Graham's zoomer (going back to Chaos' Amiga rotzoomers, tho the basic trick was invented on the Atari)
added on the 2003-08-27 22:24:39 by kb_ kb_
Last step: Remind that English grammar and being stoned don't mix. Or posting on Pouet and being stoned. Whatever.
added on the 2003-08-27 22:25:48 by kb_ kb_
kb: the explanation of the effect ist quite correct, but this has nothing to do with the graham zoom and this is not using the basic idea of the chaos rotate zoom, try to understand the effect and think about it.
added on the 2003-08-27 23:08:44 by aeg aeg
aeg: Let's say they're related. There are a few common ideas shared between those effects ;)
added on the 2003-08-28 13:37:02 by kb_ kb_
When this started zooming in&out on the bigscreen at bp I thought "oh no, they're NOT going to..." and then it started to rotate.. :) love it!
rulez added on the 2003-11-10 15:45:39 by Korvkiosken Korvkiosken
ouch :)
rulez added on the 2003-11-29 02:59:11 by Gargaj Gargaj
Now I get it... :)

Thanx KB and AEG.
added on the 2004-01-15 17:14:16 by cruzer cruzer
rulez added on the 2007-02-17 23:51:56 by darXtar darXtar
nice (even if it is quite simple as soon as aeg & kb explained it ;)
rulez added on the 2007-07-09 20:25:26 by toxie toxie
Simple is good.
rulez added on the 2008-01-20 12:18:04 by Preacher Preacher
rulez added on the 2008-01-20 12:26:54 by src src
rulez added on the 2008-03-09 20:34:06 by Alpha C Alpha C
Nice one! Effect rocks and the tune is very cool as well!
rulez added on the 2008-04-03 17:15:41 by StingRay StingRay
rulez added on the 2011-07-19 19:59:21 by ɧ4ɾɗվ. ɧ4ɾɗվ.
rulez added on the 2019-02-20 23:57:49 by gentleman gentleman
rulez added on the 2023-02-16 15:28:50 by SiR SiR

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