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Someone need a music for his demo to release to the Main ?

category: music [glöplog]
Very much so.
added on the 2010-09-16 13:55:31 by gloom gloom
oh sorry.
added on the 2010-09-16 14:00:54 by __ __
gibs: if the track is done, why not see if anybody needs it for a demo? If nobody does, put it in the music compo, no loss.

Main is actually only a couple of weeks away, so I guess most people will have their demo planned and music sorted, but lots of people start really late so you might be lucky.
added on the 2010-09-16 14:03:59 by psonice psonice
Garage Band is easier to get started with than vi/gcc.

That's a very skewed comparison though, what VI/GCC is to coding is what Max/MSP is to music, as opposed to Garage Band, which is the Visual C# of music.
added on the 2010-09-16 14:04:02 by Gargaj Gargaj
another win for pouet! <del>(loss for the demoscene ;))</del> (win for the scene \o/)
added on the 2010-09-16 14:04:09 by alk alk
Also, I think music is one of the least entry level things. Sure, you can sit down in front of FL Studio and render out a track after 15 minutes, but considering how many people will stand in line to rip your throat out after the audible torture you put them through, a lot of people reconsider.
Reasons are simple: Music is linear to time, and there's no way you can get through 4 minutes of crap faster than you'd like - plus there's also the whole thing about physical pain. For these reasons, music compos are more thoroughly filtered in preselection, i.e. a lot harder to get in, especially because of more entries.
Also, don't tell me Reason is an easier tool than Photoshop.
added on the 2010-09-16 14:14:10 by Gargaj Gargaj
gargaj: garageband is much easier than visual c# i bet. Garageband is surprisingly more powerful than I expected really (not vi/gcc, maybe pascal), but it's also fairly trivial to learn the basics. You'd still need some idea of how music works, but that kind of knowledge is very common compared to knowledge of programming.

What are the really basic coding tools like btw, anyone tried them? The ones where you're supposed to be able to build an app with no actual coding, and mostly gui based. They'd probably be about equivalent to garageband to a beginner.
added on the 2010-09-16 14:15:44 by psonice psonice
Sure, you can sit down in front of FL Studio and render out a track after 15 minutes, but considering how many people will stand in line to rip your throat out after the audible torture you put them through, a lot of people reconsider.
Argument = WIN.
added on the 2010-09-16 14:18:01 by gloom gloom
psonice: how is "more powerful than expected but fairly trivial to learn" different to Visual C#? also, isn't Garageband just a standard loopbased DAW, in which case it's exactly as tribial/powerful as any other?
added on the 2010-09-16 14:21:14 by Gargaj Gargaj
...but that's besides the point anyway. The point is that your original statement is not only offensive but bullshit squared.
added on the 2010-09-16 14:28:49 by Gargaj Gargaj
reason is easier than photoshop. anytime.
added on the 2010-09-16 14:33:33 by jeenio jeenio
Well, I've not actually learned my way around visual c# to know for sure, but garageband is really easy to get into. I've yet to see any IDE that easy, and if you need to learn a programming language as well, that makes it fairly tough for most people.

And garageband is loop based yeah, which is why it's easy to get into. But it does support instruments too, has a piano roll for basic sequencing etc. So you could make a tune in it with no loops at all. When I had a play with it, I put some loops together, then added a piano and put some notes in, then some strings.. it was progressing from 'mix of loops' to 'proper tune'. It supports plugins, filters etc. too. For something with the reputation of a 'loop based DAW' that surprised me :) Or maybe they all have this kind of feature set, I rarely touch music software.

The reason / photoshop comparison is good, but I still think if you lack some drawing talent you're not going to make a good picture. You might make acceptable music without much talent (I mean, minimal techno..) (And before anyone thinks I'm dissing musicians again, I said acceptable, not good, we all know good music requires skill, determination and talent :)
added on the 2010-09-16 14:34:44 by psonice psonice
gargaj: why is that offensive or bullshit? I said the amount of crap is fairly low, there's a ton of great musicians in the scene.

The only controversial part is where I said it's easier to get into music, and it's not hard to make a passable tune (with the software available these days, i'd say that's 100% true.. I mean there's software out there that makes music with no interaction at all ffs!) I also (hopefully at least, this was my intention) made it clear that there's a difference between passable and good, and that difference is skill and talent.
added on the 2010-09-16 14:44:10 by psonice psonice
psonice, you're right, it's dead easy to throw some loops and make a simple bass line or lead and it will even sound decent. that's how easy reason it.

and musicians are lazy bastards, I know...
added on the 2010-09-16 14:44:54 by jeenio jeenio
it's not hard to make a passable tune
Define "make". I can grab some open source code and compile a rotating cube in Visual Studio Express just as easily as a non-musician can grab pre-packaged (and pitch-matched) loops in Garageband. Neither action actually means I "made" anything though.
added on the 2010-09-16 14:48:16 by gloom gloom
gloom: I can hook a keyboard with reason and in 5 minutes I have a tune _I_ made. just a simple bassline and some chords and a basic drum pattern. I think that was his point.
added on the 2010-09-16 14:51:51 by jeenio jeenio
jeenio: Yes, _you_ can do that. Someone who has never used Reason cannot. However, if the point is that graphic programs and music programs are more visual and easier to learn than Visual Studio, then yes - they are. However - that doesn't mean shit :)
added on the 2010-09-16 14:56:38 by gloom gloom
put any fool in front of a copy of garage band or whatever, come back half an hour later, and you'll have a tune.

how is that not offensive to musicians OR bullshit in the first place?
added on the 2010-09-16 15:05:21 by Gargaj Gargaj
fruityloops is ossom! if you think you need some REAL-l33t-OMGBBQ application that takes 20 more minutes to achieve the same end result you're not a better artist, you're a better time waster!!!!!!111
jeenio: reason isn't that easy, I've used it :) (and hey, I can fire up xcode, pick the openGL template, and make a cube demo in a few minutes, that doesn't make coders lazy either)

Gloom: through a few drum loops together, add a simple bassline and a bit of piano melody and a few samples. There were a whole lot of rave tunes made just like that back in the days :) That's a new tune, nothing really wrong with it.. it's not technically brilliant, it's probably not going to be much good musically, but it's a basic, acceptable track. Compare it with something a skilled musician has taken many days to write and polish, and you'll know where the work + skill went :)

You could also download some rotating cube code and a few shaders, tweak it to how you want and add a scroller, it's probably about equivalent. It's not going to win any compos.

Either way, it's fine for a beginner learning the ropes, otherwise pretty lame. The coder is going to have to learn more though I'd say (unless we're talking purely download and compile, which is just ripping). Maybe that's wrong, but that's my experience. The musician is going to have a lot more fun learning too.
added on the 2010-09-16 15:12:13 by psonice psonice
Gargaj: it's just the simple truth, no need to be offended by that, and it's surely not bullshit. Almost anyone can make a tune in an hour with a tool like that. And it will sound decent, because it's quite hard to make something that sounds bad with this kind of software. It's not going to win any awards, and it's not something you'd want to listen to if you had a choice, but it'll be in tune with good quality instruments.

A coder on the other hand will likely still be reading the first few pages of the docs, and somebody with photoshop (assuming they're not good at drawing at least) will either be putting effects on photos or showing you some ugly doodle.

Once again, I'm not dissing musicians here, I have a ton of respect for the good ones. All I'm saying is music is fairly easy to get started with, and fun to learn, maybe that's why there's a lot of musicians?
added on the 2010-09-16 15:20:56 by psonice psonice
hey gibs, never mind :) i tried the same some months ago,
but i didnt get ANY feedback, so at least you have 4 full pages of resonance and that is pretty cool. Now everyone will look forward to hear your new song. i also put my song to the mp3 compo, because no one needed one for a demo.
added on the 2010-09-16 15:29:02 by jazz jazz
Something that psonice doesn't seems to understand is that music is "inspiration". You can do "music" with sample loop arrangements but at the end the music is not yours, and you're not a musician. and you're not an original musician because you're neightboor would have done the same music than you.

More than this, music production require a level of mixing and mastering that you can't learn in 1 hour...

For example listen to the music of OMG (One Man Group), it's huge, it's impossible to achieve that in 1 hour. It's ridiculous.

You probably don't have a clue about what's behind this kind of music.

Another example, the music from the "Elevated", it's simple. How can you do that without inspiration, solid background in music , and years of practicing ??
added on the 2010-09-16 15:32:02 by gibs gibs
gibs has leading.

also, as a real-life musician, I can ASSURE you that making music is not easy, but the tools out there are insane. reason is a perfect example, is so easy to use and even some coders I've met have done music in it that ranked higher in music compos than mine.... true story.

but yeah, opinions can be diverse, for instance, I'm a jazz musician, and everyone knows what poueters think about us.
added on the 2010-09-16 15:36:30 by jeenio jeenio
guys, you can argue during weeks.
added on the 2010-09-16 15:36:48 by __ __


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