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Future demo festivals: kill the "original release" rule

category: general [glöplog]
Right. Some arguments explain it well. Thanks for taking the time.

It's quite inbred, and the move would only make sense in combination with a few others. I suppose the conservative forces will keep it "in the family".

d3adlydesser: this is exactly what I'm going to do. But I would have preferred to change the place where I was at to change with me, instead of me having to go to a different place. Apparently, that's life.

also: can't stand the handle anymore. Negative connotations, the world is bad enough as it is. It's something a 16 year old would make up ;)
added on the 2010-04-05 21:42:54 by paniq paniq
skrebbel: that "bunch of pouet.net lurkers" sees demos released at parties as well as demos released somewhere else. so your proposal is a bad idea for (amongst others) the reason you pointed out yourself.

also, i think it would be a rather bad idea to make such drastic changes to a party's compo rules only 4 weeks before the event takes place.
added on the 2010-04-05 21:54:04 by havoc havoc
I'm not a fan of this idea, but I would love to see some other stuff.
I would love it if demos could do more than just show of non-interactive movie-like stuff in real-time.

Maybe a new compo-type which is in the format of a demo, but is allowed to interface with internet, webcams, input, whatever in order to create interesting software.

Kind of like a mix between demo and wild.
added on the 2010-04-05 22:01:35 by vame vame
vame: If you have an idea and the time to implement it, I'd love to add "Interactive demo" to the compolist for Solskogen 2010.
added on the 2010-04-05 22:04:10 by gloom gloom
Most handles are decided at about 16.
added on the 2010-04-05 22:07:20 by xernobyl xernobyl
Leonard Ritter: Nowadays, someone can be famous just by singing a song, fighting an imaginary Dark Vador with a broom or showing his distented anus on the Internet.
Some even gain lots of money in the process.

That's for your serious life ...
added on the 2010-04-05 22:08:19 by RetroVM RetroVM
Leonard Ritter: Which was your handle?
added on the 2010-04-05 22:30:10 by Defiance Defiance
@ Leonard Ritter :
Quote:
But I would have preferred to change the place where I was at to change with me, instead of me having to go to a different place. Apparently, that's life.


You're hinting that you're going to leave the scene, because you take one (1) party rule too strict? Here is a solution : just consider the word 'released' in the sentence 'Compo entries may not have been released before.' to be in a demoscene-related context, like it was orginally ment to be. How can one 'release' something on a non demoparty? You can't. So what is the problem?

If youi've got a cool project, my guess is you'll be ably to find most/all organisers of demoparties more then willing to let you enter it into the competition. I have done so myself a couple of times (allways with permission).

I'm still trying to grasp the intent of your first post (as well as your last). If you want actual change, I suggest to talk to the main organisers of well known parties. Opening a thread on pouet isn't going to help. For example,count the number of posts starting from this one, till the first care bear is posted.

You're saying if the scene doesn't change the way you want it, you're leaving or what? Or am I completely missing the point here? (/me looks again to the quote above, humm)

May I suggest a typical DIY-solution : organise a demoparty where you make the rules. If done correctly, it could become a huge success, I mean you're more or less suggesting the 'old way' of doing things leads to disaster, so I would say : time for some fresh air!

I heard there is demand for a large party in Easter,.
added on the 2010-04-05 22:39:48 by numtek numtek
I don´t get it why releasing at a demoparty first and at other festivals afterwards would be spoilering - since it is intended to multiple festivals there would be spoilered ones anyway.
And given the fact that the scene is non-commercial and most attenders hobbyists, it is also pretty wrong wanting to compete at a demoparty with your professional stuff and not wanting to be them the first to enjoy it is quite selfish and not what I´d call scene spirit.

And competing at a demoparty but not releasing it afterwards - c´mon, if you really think that´s a good idea think over it again for a while, and If you haven´t changed your mind then please GTFO.


About the size limit: At first I thought dropping it would be a good idea - but then I´d realized that it would mainly result in an increase of stuff whacked together using some gamemakers, random sample code and other piles of crap rather than in many better entries. And 96k is not that less - enough for a couple of bitmaps, mp3 compressed sound fx, a tune plaid by one of the 64k players/synths and one or two levels which will be shown during the compo.
But in general, I´d like to see more nice pics and sounds in games (adventure style, anyone?), thus relaxing the restriction somewhat won´t be that bad. Or just release at other parties which allow larger files, or within the wild compo.
added on the 2010-04-05 22:42:24 by T$ T$
Gloom: Awesome. I'll try to think of ways to do it.

I've got a feeling Quisten would also be interested in such a compo, I've talked with him about this kind of stuff before :)
added on the 2010-04-05 22:44:59 by vame vame
is this thread about 'rob is jarig' ?
added on the 2010-04-05 22:45:23 by the_Ye-Ti the_Ye-Ti
Vame: very cool - I also have an idea for one such prod - would be cool to try it out with a coder I know :)
added on the 2010-04-05 22:50:31 by gloom gloom
we have demoshows.
added on the 2010-04-05 23:17:43 by thec thec
Quote:
I'm not a fan of this idea, but I would love to see some other stuff.
I would love it if demos could do more than just show of non-interactive movie-like stuff in real-time.

Maybe a new compo-type which is in the format of a demo, but is allowed to interface with internet, webcams, input, whatever in order to create interesting software.

Kind of like a mix between demo and wild.


Alternative party has had "dynamic/alternative demo compo" for a couple of years and it surely allows and promotes interactive demos also. Unfortunately compo entries have never been that good when compared to the normal demo compo.
added on the 2010-04-05 23:45:16 by waffle waffle
I basically agree with navis. If i was a demoscene newbie and chances were that i had to compete against the new Flt&CNCD, FR and whatever demo from BP on every party, why even bother releasing my material.
i don't share the at least twice mentioned idea/motivation/thought of winning every party/prizes in one year.
I am also wondering, why release shortfilms at a demoscene party at all? i am making them for over 15 years now and never did so, because i think its not the right place, at least if the material is not demoscene related.
added on the 2010-04-06 00:18:08 by CONS CONS
OK from now on every winning demo has to be entered into every demo competition that follows in the same year. Ending with the grand blockbuster final at TUM. On the upside it might convince a few coders to make final versions.
added on the 2010-04-06 00:36:28 by 4mat 4mat
This is a really interesting topic. My half-assed solution is to try making wild demos, which can be like animated shorts. The HBC guys, for example, have shown us that it's possible to make awesome animated shorts with clever scene easter eggs. That way you can please both crowds.
added on the 2010-04-06 02:31:20 by gr9yfox gr9yfox
if you don't value demoscene enough to release things first at some party and then go to festivals, just don't release in a demoscene context. if you're looking for mainstream audience the demoscene really isn't the place for that anyway.
added on the 2010-04-06 02:51:53 by nosfe nosfe
i <3 nosfe
added on the 2010-04-06 02:56:20 by havoc havoc
(no homo! :))
added on the 2010-04-06 02:56:59 by havoc havoc
I just want to drop my opinion. I haven't really read the discussion in between but oh well.
If a production has appeared in a competition at a demoparty before, it shouldn't be re-released, just doesn't fit into demoscene in my opinion. Most of the audience at demoparties have visited parties earlier that year, and probably watched at least the more successful ones at home too. People tend to travel to parties from all over the world (well, mainly around europe), but at filmfestivals I believe only a small partition of their "scene" attends every single event, and lot's of people who attend are just local folks. For those people the productions shown there much of the are new to the people, or at least they haven't in most cases seen them at an event before. This is though just how I see it.
I don't think there's much point keep seeing some demo gathering all prizes and people just watching by. Also in my opinion it's also not very supporting people actually make new productions, when they can just produce less and get prizes from all the parties during the year. And besides, since when has the demoscene been so money orientated? Should we just care about the prizes and money? I think demoscene should be above this way of thinking and focus on the creation of interresting productions. In general I don't even think the whole idea would fit into the idea of a demo, but then again it might be just me as I'm used to how things are done now.
As a general rule I'd say, productions that have been shown in a competition at a demoparty before, shouldn't be competing again, and as conclusion, I think I'll agree with navis and the other people behind him.
added on the 2010-04-06 03:10:08 by noby noby
The only way this could ever work is if demoparties would be organized in the same fashion than the festivals Leonard is mentioning.
Meaning, that the only way to see the films participating is at the festivals itself.

Since we all release our demos directly after the party, that concept doesn't work anymore and would just be boring to all the visitor who come to the parties to see new stuff and chill with their friends!

I kind of like the idea of a Best-Of-20xx Demoshow with public voting at tUM though. But that would surely collide with the scene.org awards in some way.
added on the 2010-04-06 03:26:43 by D.Fox D.Fox
the rule that every demo in the competition is a new demo is a good rule for major parties. nothing is more exiting than a demo competition where you have no clue what's next. at the last few breakpoints it was my job to do the pc competitions. one example: i always tried to hide how many entries there were, because that would be kind of a spoiler. also, i would never disqualify an entry because someone can't do better, but i have disqualified entries because they were not a serous attempt to make a real demo.

size limitations are a bad rule. would 'elevated' be meaningless if it was 4097 bytes? is debris not worth mentioning because it is multiples of 64 kb?

we have to change some rules. many rules. that's why we need a new beginning.

added on the 2010-04-06 03:55:40 by chaos chaos
Quote:
but i have disqualified entries because they were not a serous attempt to make a real demo

Do they need to be? What about serious attempts to make a BAD demo? :)
added on the 2010-04-06 04:38:25 by xernobyl xernobyl

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