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don't you need designers anymore ?

category: general [glöplog]
Demos suck. Watch MTV.
added on the 2005-08-24 08:36:13 by j9 j9
I've always been in need of a designer, but having to subject to someone else's ideas AND sharing the prizemoney with them always stopped me from using one...
Some times ago in a far far away galaxy lightyears away, I've writen an article called... What was its name? Ha yeah! How to save the scene? It was misunderstood, or at least ignored: demomakers are ALL the best in everything and an unknown guy I'm can't help them. This article deal with design and nuance needed to achieve a good or excellent demo. Of course I'm totally unable to produce something beautiful myself, I recognise it, I'm a lamer. However as a BIG CONSUMER, I've downloaded and get thousands games and demos. And I can say that before we were at least on the ST and on the Amiga, more aware of design and quality than on the PC. I don't say PC demomakers sucks and are lame but I can say they produce too much and too quick to make something good. Design and beauty evolve with time for sure but what the egyptian did or the greek did is still considered beautiful. So yes beauty respect rules and they are written in art books and are learnt on some highly rated and costly schools. However the internet is full of web design and other free course about how to present object in video presentation and a large part of the old demos and games from the ST / the Amiga and the C64 can be watched using an emulator. So watch, make some pause and learn. Yes copy their design and look at the good cracktros too, then you will resurect the good old demoscene quality label.

ps: of course today like yesterday there is awesome great demos but generally 95% at least worth nothing and as there is no more swappers we don't select and everything is online. I'm sorry for begginers: everybody have to make his first step, don't despair. It's just a matter of time and of knowledge, I don't laugh at you, I'm also an ignorant of these rules but I know they exist.
It may be good to make the analysis of Voyage / Razor 1911, Desert Dream II / Kefrens, Interference / Sanity and some other jewels. Don't try to reach the highness of current stars as they have a long experience already, just copy the oldskool style as it's easier to achieve an oldschool styled demo than a newschool one: it's less complex. Thanks you for reading.
added on the 2005-08-26 03:17:48 by ep ep
ep: how many times do you need to be told that DEMOS AREN'T TO BE CONSUMED !?

btw i think there are more and more well-designed demos, and powertools like Demopaja or Werkkzeug do help.
added on the 2005-08-26 12:04:43 by Zest Zest
it's not neccesarily a designers problem. most ppl these days cant be arsed to work on a demo for 2+ months to make it look good/coherent/slick etc.
added on the 2005-08-26 15:56:35 by Maali Maali
idea of design:

BB Image

Maali: you're right! Today we have no time as we always run here and there. Generally we are too much divided and separated nor have time to make design. This is the BIG mistake. Better make one demo per day of pure marvel than making 10 quickly done. But hey that's economic system: art don't care about time but artist stomac care about having money to buy something to eat! Hence a lot of demomakers left the demoscene boat to find a job and loose interest in the scene.

When I talk about the scene, I talk about a bunch of 15-18 years old guys who have free time after school to code and make demo. I talk about love and time to make something really good for the fun.

But nowadays, the PC era is about consumerism and speed: MHz race, highly productive tools, demomaker softwares and so on.

It's subjective but what I (and certainly some oldschoolers) love in a demo is the artwork and work of people behind them. I don't say making a demo using a demo tool is not demomaking nor don't requires love, time, motivation and work. I say the old "production" way was more quality based than the new one.

You can compare the new way of making demos / games to what have happened to the food making : industialisation and productivity to the max! See pizza hut / mac donald food and hand made pizzas or food served by high level 5 stars restaurant. That's the same idea.

Newcomers / sceners (from 96 and after) don't know about the previous way so they can't understand or at least feel it. I understand they find the new way good and what they produce good because it is according to their tastes. There is no accountancy for tastes but I, yes it's subjective and egocentric, prefer the old stuff.
There is several reasons for this and an article have been published about that and I'll write another one with different reasons.

Whatever, world changes and IT too (too much!), so we have to evolve but I think to move to less known and used platform in the future as beeing in the mass market like the PC is don't bring only advantages: quality is low as quantity is too high (quantity sells and fill stomac, quality feed you and makes you better).



An advice: looks the web with google image and mathematic concepts like square, circle, sphere, it will gives you ideas if you don't have one.
added on the 2005-08-26 18:58:50 by ep ep
an advice: dont compare apples with pears.
added on the 2005-08-26 19:40:42 by Maali Maali
an advice: don't talk about what you dunno.
added on the 2005-08-26 20:05:01 by Zest Zest
Designers suck.
Demo's are about coders.
We've used you for a couple of years to get an advantage.
Now you are useless.

G O A W A Y .
added on the 2005-08-26 23:17:00 by Led Led
Oh and Maali :
Quit watching Oprah, you sound like her ;)

To make a long story short :
people who've been in the scene too long sound just like people who've been living in the 60's/70's too long :)

Stuff evolves - shit happens - stuff changes - deal with it :)
If you don't like it - don't go there, don't watch it :)
If you do - go there, show'em you can do better :)

'Nuff said :)
added on the 2005-08-26 23:21:18 by Led Led
(offtopic : I hope people don't take my remarks too seriously ;))
added on the 2005-08-26 23:22:12 by Led Led
Led: stop smoking this burn your brain cells and apparently you don't have so much! When you'll have finished to eat ghosts come again and take this in your face "lamer": BB Image

And to sum up: the nowadays scene which spent its time on pouet are useless lamers who do nothing else than saying always the same thing and show only their ignorance of scene roots. They have just discovered the scene and haven't noticed this is a playground: BB Image.
So grew up and fuck you! Leave this place because you're not a scener but a larva.

Zest: you worth nothing and you don't earn your pseudo. Where is your zest, I mean your energy? An "active member" it's written at orange juice: show me your music, show me your code? NOTHING. You are a ghost, an ectoplasm. See Led, he needs something to put in his mouth.

Bye, dishcloths!
added on the 2005-08-30 06:12:57 by ep ep
the nowadays scene which spent its time on pouet are useless lamers who do nothing else than saying always the same thing

... uhm, BASS!
added on the 2005-08-30 12:14:24 by red red
oh ep, when will you realize that nobody gives a flip about what you think :)
added on the 2005-08-30 12:44:31 by okkie okkie
Okkie, you're wrong. He's great entertainment.
added on the 2005-08-30 12:56:01 by Preacher Preacher
ep: some of us 'useless lamers' as you call it, have been slightly more active (in the sense of putting out decent releases) the last few months than for instance YOU. you're only capable of whining about the same shit over and over again in jerky English :P
added on the 2005-08-30 13:00:12 by Maali Maali
Maali, quite frankly you are less skilled than ep. Atleast he knows how to upset people by purpose. You on the other hand simply sucks on everything.

Sorry, I have been honest all day long.
added on the 2005-08-30 16:57:24 by Hatikvah Hatikvah
i could be a swell vacuumcleaner then, anyway
added on the 2005-08-30 17:31:24 by Maali Maali
Actually I don't think ep upsets people on purpose, he just does it.
added on the 2005-08-30 17:37:15 by Gargaj Gargaj
yes we need designer !
look, as you tell at beginning demo from french always has good design..... it is the reason that we are not coder like finnish guy..... they code good but have no design !
franch demos group must be good in competing without good coder as the finnish,so we have designer to make high standard demo. but thanxx that fins doesn't use designer so we still have good chance :DDDDDDDD
added on the 2005-08-30 19:41:39 by Vocus Vocus
ok, the kid is a laf, but nothing will ever change ;)

good, let me sketch out the scene for you in the coming years! it will become more and more some incrowd since lots of people now can make stuff with computers which rocks and they don't have to scene, they have the web as their podium and sites like ebaum. (and look at Freilandeier for that matter) so the scene will be a hardcore group of fanatics that will eventually grow thinner and thinner, until breakpoint is a nice gathering on a campsite somewhere in germany where we all drive with the wifes and kids and we drink while the kids play psp2 and portaXbox in the sun!
added on the 2005-08-30 19:44:35 by okkie okkie
Didn't you just describe the playboy mansion party?
okkie: see you at breakpoint 2020!
added on the 2005-08-30 20:35:22 by Maali Maali
Design is always a good excuse for those who can't code! HAHAHA. Ok guys, who's with me! =)
added on the 2005-08-30 21:16:54 by ravity ravity
Answering: It's just your fucked up head. :P
A demo is, and will ever be, made by coders... and graphicians that know how to code.

Well now, what happened is... ah... one of our base commanders, he had a sort of... well, he went a little funny in the head... you know... just a little... funny.
added on the 2005-08-31 03:56:32 by xernobyl xernobyl


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