pouët.net

check www.demozone.nl.

"Now in 2005 there are ideas to bring digital kultur to a international platform. The first step to this new organisation will be a poll on demoscene parties. A special membership application form will be available on demozone to support a posible future dutch division of Digitale Kultur."

please excuse me for being dutch...

but i'm really lost as to why i should be paying 5 euro/month to some club i've never heard of for any reasons beside organising evoke. (no offense meant, perhaps they really do a lot more, it's just that i haven't heard about it :/).

however i'm not against the idea to form some kind of umbrella structure for the dutch demoscene. that would be a good idea actually. but not with monthly fees plz

demoscene is free

Havoc: I'll excuse you for being dutch but I don't excuse you for not reading http://www.digitalekultur.org first to find out what Digital Kultur is actually doing before complaining here :-)

sparcus, ik heb van nature nogal weinig vertrouwen in dit soort "kunstzinnige uithangborden"... leuk dat ze een beetje presentaties geven op random kunstfestivals enzo, echter dat heeft ons in 15 jaar verder nooit ene kloot opgeleverd en het interesseert mij hoegenaamd niets hoe de rest van de wereld over de demoscene denkt. dus dat gedeelte mag men mag lekker zelf bekostigen wat mij betreft.

dan organiseren ze verder nog evoke (schijnt leuk te zijn, maar da's van horen zeggen) en sponsoren ze wat compos ofzo (maar wel weer allemaal van die vage shit waarvan ik niet eens wist dat het bestond).

dus nutteloos wil ik ze zeker niet noemen, maar waarom er nou perse een nederlandse afdeling van deze club moet komen snap ik ook niet echt. en al helemaal niet waarom dat 5 euro per maand waard zou zijn, dat geld steek ik liever direct in projecten die 100% de demoscene ten goede komen.

Havoc: You might not care about how the rest of the world thinks about the demoscene, but you might care about drawing new blood into the scene, and the only way to do that is to step out of the scene once in a while and to present the scene to non-sceners.

Maybe you have a different view on things because there is still something of an Atari scene in the Netherlands, but I as a pc scener would welcome an organisation like Digital Kultur if they manage to attract some new people and competition into the dutch scene.

Eh? You seem to be pretty impressed with the three of us... ;)

Anyway, I don't believe that organisations like these could hope to attract new blood to the scene. That's way too ambitious. Perhaps they could put some people on the right track, but chances are the actual productions is what will convince them rather than some promotional speech or lecture. And "even if", then it still shouldn't require a monthly fee. Not from the activists themselves anyway.

Ik hoor dat iemand het limp ninja bier fonds gaat spekken :)

bij wijze van ja... het verdient mijns inziens aanbeveling eerst maar eens te zorgen dat nederland uberhaupt qua scene iets te presenteren heeft voordat we ons over de verdere uitdraging dezes zorgen gaan maken.

overigens lees ik ook net dat je als niet-duitser wel lid kunt worden van dit clubje, maar dan heb je dus geen stemrecht. dat inschrijfformulier is dus wellicht iets voor in de portacabin?

Havoc, they do show demos in their "lectures" ... you think sceners would avoid showing demos at all? Drawing new blood to the scene ain't easy, and is not getting easier, you have first to 1- get them intrigued 2- get them there, at the party place, and give them enough quickstarting help (tools, how to be efficient, knowledge of the inner secrets of compo participation etc)

Anyway the prerequisite here is for the scene to be open-minded on newly joining people. I think most party-going sceners aren't yet fundamentalists. ;)

havoc, nothing is certain yet about the exact form of a dutch branch of digitale kultur. what matters is that a group of people intend to promote the demoscene to the outside world, not details like how costs are covered or voting rights.

nobody forces you do join this, and i guess only a certain 'type' of scener would be interested anyhow. this is no different in germany - there, the amount of digitale kultur members is very small compared to the amount of sceners. i don't see why that ratio would be very different in holland.

i'm in, by the way.

baaaahhh... playing the "you're not open minded" card is just pathetic. people who truely do not have an open mind would never even consider to go to demozone in the first place (3000 LANers). let alone getting active to promote the party...

skrebbel, look, i don't want to be a dick, but to the evil mind it's easy to find a pattern in the demozone news postings. first it's lasergaming, then the dayticket ain't good enough anymore, then a 5eur/month promotion club we're asked to join... i'm having hard enough a time convincing my more "hardcore" audience to come to this party as is, the last thing needed is rumors about even more stuff that costs extra money.

(and yeah, i know you so i should know better than to think your intention is to rip people off. and i do. but the people i've been trying to convince to come to the party don't. so consider me the voice of those people for the moment)

uh? the "open-minded" part was an aside comment on the fact that we may or may not desire to attract foreigners in the scene, and that open-mindedness was a prerequisite.

Now for the digitale kultur part.. I fail to comprehend what the big issue is. It's not like they are trying to levy taxes on scenes are they? You want to be a member (which means you are interested in active promotion of the scene with their own methods and channels) you can join, or if you aren't interested in that you don't. It's not like anybody *has* to be part of just about any scenish related thing.. or buy any scene related book/cd/action figure/goodie for that matter.

And yeah, hum I like to include peripherical remarks in my comments.

One of the core reasons why I never took the time to join the band camp of Digitale Kultur is because the germans would get the full deck, while foreigners got nothing for their trouble/money/pegels/knaken/etc

We do not need a dutch division, we need to have equality.

"Now for the digitale kultur part.."

Right now I care more about the "Demozone" part. Because if that fails, "Digitale Kultur" or anyone other legal entity won't have a helluva lot to promote or invite people to here in Holland.

I don't think you've quite gotten the point about digitale kultur.

but congratulations.

now use it well.

You also fail to grasp the dutch scene. That makes you a WINNAR at the internet of sorts

I guess...

Well, even I don't grasp the dutch scene so don' be so harsh on Dominei :-)

And I think he has a point because I was basically thinking the same. If there was a helluva lot to promote then we wouldn't need an organisation like Digitale Kultur.

ok sparcus, i admit, i was wrong from the start:

THERE IS NO FUTURE FOR THE DUTCH DEMOSCENE WITHOUT DIGITALE KULTUR!!!!1

ofcourse i will say "YES" to digtale kultur (without any obligations), then the future of the scene is safe and i can sit back and do nothing once again...

btw:

i lectured several people @ HATZ'05 about the dutch scene and demozone. can i send my petrol bill to digitale kultur? thanks already!

easy on the crackpipe, dude

shifter: no, I guess I don't fully grasp the dutch scene :)

i made a really big msg, but then it got lost in a session time-out.. *DAMN* !!

so, i'll keep it short..

i doubt we can get guys from the art scene and convert them into even part-time sceners.

but digitale kultur might be a nice way of showing demos and the scene to the art world.

still, i'm not interested in respect nor contempt from the art world. i just want to talk about nasty k0de bits with some other morons while stoned on cola, beer and lack of sleep.

what -would- be nice to get from an arts organisation is a good sponsored partyplace!! this way entrance prices can be kept low, and organisers don't need to search half the country before they find a suitable location... but before this happens, i'll stay far away from these organisations.

mingling with the art or other computer scenes can (and should) also be done freely..